Dr. D. Schreber wrote on Aug 15, 2010, 00:22:
ASJD wrote on Aug 14, 2010, 21:58:
Dr. D. Schreber wrote on Aug 14, 2010, 14:45:
John of all people should understand that dedicated servers are a technological advantage over peer-to-peering. There's no ifs, ands or buts (or butts) about it; you have dedicated servers, you can have a game that relies less on client-side prediction and gives the players a more authentic experience based on what everyone in-game is actually doing, with less of the outcome reliant on luck.
You don't understand the purpose of client-side prediction.
Yes I do, the problem is that developers have taken a "lalalalalalalalala WE CAN'T HEAR YOU!" approach to the purpose of client-side prediction. This is largely how console multiplayer functions, considering that it's always suffered the problems of a p2p gaming setup. Client-side prediction is an excuse to ignore the fact that the system is inherently disadvantaged. "We don't have dedicated servers so the multiplayer is never going to be very precise, just turn up the CSP to compensate for it!"
You have no idea what CSP or dedicated servers actually mean. CSP is used in 100% of first person shooter games, from doom and quake, the source engine, to modern warfare 2. Here's a good description from valve for how their software works - if you can follow it:
http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Source_Multiplayer_NetworkingI also don't think you can generalize all console games as peer to peer. Many of them DO use "dedicated" servers. The meaning of dedicated server in this discussion, is the ability for users to run their own servers.
The actual networking model for most games these days (console or pc) is actually the client server approach, it's just that companies like to have authority over who is running the servers, so that their lauded matchmaking features, leveling up, stats, etc all work properly. With users running their own servers, modders could hack in ways to up user scores etc. The whole built-in community stuff, copied from xbox live, was the signal that user servers were at an end. Another feature of dev-run servers is that they can patch their servers and keep everything up to date without users experiencing version mismatches etc.
Of course, what they are taking away is the freedom of being able to set up our own servers, either for a clan, or for our friends. Or being able to have mods on a server. Or being able to have a server we KNOW is physically close to us so the lag is minimal, without having to rely on the developer actually having a nearby server (which is a ton of work for them to support on their own).
I don't see why they can't make dedicated servers a separate feature, which doesn't hook into achievements and the like. It could even be a separate option on the menu. It's more work to do the matchmaking algorithms than it is to show a server list, boggles my mind why they go that route instead of the way games used to work. At least give us the option! Lan parties still exist guys, and the best way to host one is to set up a specific server for it.
But devs don't seem to care what we want any more. We ask for table scraps, and they don't even give us those. 40 million dollars to make a game, and they can't even spare the couple thousand bucks a dedicated server would cost in dev time. (A couple days of work for a few devs)