Op Ed

Greywardens.com - Is Dragon Age II the End of BioWare as a Traditional RPG Creator?
Teasing me with something as open and infinitely superior in its complexity as was Dragon Age: Origins, only to follow up with something that is simply NOT in the same style or genre, is completely and utterly unfair. As a gamer and a fan, I care how much profit BioWare makes only insofar as it keeps them afloat to continue making more cool stuff that I like. Selfish, but true of most gamers. I don’t want to see things get blanded away from the features and elements that made BioWare my favourite game maker. While I understand their need to grow and expand, on an intellectual level, I am thoroughly disheartened at this turn of events.

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1.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 11, 2010, 13:55
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Re: Op Ed Jul 11, 2010, 13:55
Jul 11, 2010, 13:55
 
Damned consoles and their noob gamers.
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Re: Op Ed
Jul 11, 2010, 13:56
2.
Re: Op Ed Jul 11, 2010, 13:56
Jul 11, 2010, 13:56
 
yeh it has nothing to do with the publishers and the developers
3.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 11, 2010, 14:01
3.
Re: Op Ed Jul 11, 2010, 14:01
Jul 11, 2010, 14:01
 
BioWare was doing this since day one - this streamlining thing. It murdered the turn-based-combat canon and for that I`ll never forgive them. Pause schmauze...
Selling gimmick of BG that got everyone talking, even the non-rpg`ers was the sheer amount of voiceover/filharmonic music & graphics (5 CD`s woaaaa!)

Never the less I played most of their games and at least enjoyed them (and few are true classics). Not tried DAge (hardware), but it was supposed to be for more, uhh hardcore/oldskool crowd apparently? (Tactical combat - being mentioned like something that was just invented lol) And was a success, proving there`s still audience, but if they`re now dumbing it down making it "more accessible" that`s rather sad.

Typical corporate meddling...

4.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 11, 2010, 14:02
4.
Re: Op Ed Jul 11, 2010, 14:02
Jul 11, 2010, 14:02
 
Look, I know PC gamers love to QQ about every developers and their mother "abandoning PC gaming" or other retarded claims, at least wait for some fucking gameplay before you guys cry.

5.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 11, 2010, 14:19
5.
Re: Op Ed Jul 11, 2010, 14:19
Jul 11, 2010, 14:19
 
Caveman wrote on Jul 11, 2010, 14:02:
Look, I know PC gamers love to QQ about every developers and their mother "abandoning PC gaming" or other retarded claims, at least wait for some fucking gameplay before you guys cry.


You don't have to be a PC gamer just a gamer in general to notice the direction games are going in. Game budgets are increasing each year and the time between releases is getting shorter, so something has to give. In RPGs that usually ends up meaning more graphical effects and shallower story. I have played and enjoyed most of Bioware's games so I'am more than willing to give them the benefit of the doubt.

I think the days of the epic length RPGs are coming to an end but not because of any platform. Games are getting shorter and in some cases more expensive when you consider DLC story/quest additions.
6.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 11, 2010, 14:21
6.
Re: Op Ed Jul 11, 2010, 14:21
Jul 11, 2010, 14:21
 
Bioware's been over for a while now.
"I like my coffee like I like my women. Black, with a side of prune danish." - Gilbert Gottfried
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7.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 11, 2010, 14:38
7.
Re: Op Ed Jul 11, 2010, 14:38
Jul 11, 2010, 14:38
 
A longer game doesn't make a better game.

For example, Half-Life 2, pretty long game in my books. However, it contains a lot of annoying filler, particularity the 2 hour hoverboat level at the beginning. Everytime I replay Half-Life 2, I skip that part. Also, the annoying crossing the trestle bridge. I'd take episode 2 over Half-Life 2 any day of the year, a great paced, 5 hour game is much better than a 12 hour inconsistent game.

I found Dragon Age to be the perfect length, I've beaten it 3 times and have over 250 hours logged into it.
8.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 11, 2010, 14:47
8.
Re: Op Ed Jul 11, 2010, 14:47
Jul 11, 2010, 14:47
 
There are plenty of epic-length RPGs left on the PC platform, but you can't get them at Best Buy and they don't focus on l33t uber effects and "achievements" either.
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9.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 11, 2010, 15:03
9.
Re: Op Ed Jul 11, 2010, 15:03
Jul 11, 2010, 15:03
 
Am I missing something? Since when was Dragon Age "open and infinitely superior in complexity"? As soon as you finished the Origin tale the game was as linear as anything else, with a load of fake choices with no consequences chucked in to disguise the fact. It had the shitty pause-flail-pause combat that Bioware's so fond of, neither as strategic as proper turn based nor as fun and fluid as proper real time combat.

RPG's are my favourite genre and have been since I started gaming way back with Ultima VII and Underworld, but Dragon Age was mediocrity incarnate. I'm quite happy to play one character through a properly built branching storyline than suffer faux-choice syndrome so that I can choose which variety of arse I see running around for 40 hours.
10.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 11, 2010, 16:03
10.
Re: Op Ed Jul 11, 2010, 16:03
Jul 11, 2010, 16:03
 
I found DA:O decent and that was about it. Nothing ground breaking, nothing truly amazing, just a decent RPG that I honestly find overhyped and overrated. It's not awful by any means but it's not remarkable either.
11.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 11, 2010, 16:27
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Re: Op Ed Jul 11, 2010, 16:27
Jul 11, 2010, 16:27
 
Saying that Dragon Age 2 is the end of BioWare as a traditional RGP creator is to completely flush Mass Effect 2 down the memory hole. It's an (admittedly well-polished) adventure game with guns, nothing more.
12.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 11, 2010, 16:28
12.
Re: Op Ed Jul 11, 2010, 16:28
Jul 11, 2010, 16:28
 
I think it's a bit early to sound the Bioware death knell just yet. A billion things can change before DA2.
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13.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 11, 2010, 16:29
13.
Re: Op Ed Jul 11, 2010, 16:29
Jul 11, 2010, 16:29
 
yeh it was passable.. definitely by-the-numbers tho
14.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 11, 2010, 17:45
14.
Re: Op Ed Jul 11, 2010, 17:45
Jul 11, 2010, 17:45
 
Oh lord.

Let's wait to know what the actual game is like before we pass judgment people. Days later and people are still going crazy over pure assumptions with Dragon Age 2 based on marketing, which was not at all accurate on the first title. Bunch of reactionaries!
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15.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 11, 2010, 17:50
15.
Re: Op Ed Jul 11, 2010, 17:50
Jul 11, 2010, 17:50
 
Well, it can still be a good game on its own merits, but it's a further stepping away from classic CRPGs by BioWare. It's fairly disrespectful of the first game, too, if you consider that the thing was sold as the damn origin stories of the numerous races...

On a personal note, I think it's a bad sign because my girlfriend has this obsession with character creation and this is now gone for the sequel. Otherwise, as much as I liked DA, it certainly wasn't a Baldur's Gate and I still think it was fairly confined in a lot of regards (origins were pointless, the actual story is another BioWare retread, lack of any significant gray decision, etc.) and I put a lot of those at the feet of the simplified structure BioWare implmented.

However, I still enjoyed the title on the whole and I think they found an okay blending of a RPG for PC and console players alike and needing to meet the hype expectations of something like Gamestop. But the failed, greedy DLC push by BioWare, this further simplification to the character aspect of the game, and the shortened development cycle do make me cautious about the next game.
Need we discuss the shooter that is ME2?
Ultimately, we have to see, but why go this route? Especially as a sequel to DA? Maybe I am completely offbase here, but I do wonder if this is truly a sequel or more an expansion/side story.

Then again, you're asking people to wait while completely writing off the entire PC player base so...

Waiting to see; not dying for more DA at the moment;
Ray
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16.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 11, 2010, 18:04
16.
Re: Op Ed Jul 11, 2010, 18:04
Jul 11, 2010, 18:04
 
The most hardcore RPGs are all on consoles. Disgaea series has way more depth than any PC RPG released in years, hell it's even TURN BASED, I thought you guys loved those! Demon's Souls is hardcore by anyone's standards. Consoles also are where the turn based RTS market is these days.

So stop being hypocrites and start playing the real hardcore games.
17.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 11, 2010, 18:44
mag
17.
Re: Op Ed Jul 11, 2010, 18:44
Jul 11, 2010, 18:44
mag
 
JRPGs are a different breed entirely, and they don't belong in the same discussion. They really just don't.

Plus, Bioware stopped being an RPG developer when they released Jade Empire.
18.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 11, 2010, 19:10
PHJF
 
18.
Re: Op Ed Jul 11, 2010, 19:10
Jul 11, 2010, 19:10
 PHJF
 
Disgaea isn't an cRPG, it's a strategy RPG. Apples to oranges.
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19.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 11, 2010, 20:17
19.
Re: Op Ed Jul 11, 2010, 20:17
Jul 11, 2010, 20:17
 
You still customize your character's looks.

You still pick your character's class.

You still pick your character's gender.

What they have locked is what race you can pick, and I believe the character's name. All this for the need for voice acting, and what I hope will be made up for in the form of a much more personal story to the main character.

IMO this could still easily be a worthy successor to DA:O...
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20.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 11, 2010, 20:38
20.
Re: Op Ed Jul 11, 2010, 20:38
Jul 11, 2010, 20:38
 
Dragon Effect ftl.

I'm not going to pass judgment on this game but as a traditional RPG fan, I can see pretty clearly that these changes are being made because DA sold about 1.5 million boxes worldwide and ME1/2 sold about 6x as many each.

Being able to choose his looks or gender or class is all well and good but no races but human and loosing the ability to control the entire party is bullcrap.

ME felt like I was just watching it.

DA:O felt like a living world.

The game can (and likely will) still turn out to be a great game. But successor of DA:O and by extension Baldur's Gate it will not.
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