Op Ed

Greywardens.com - Is Dragon Age II the End of BioWare as a Traditional RPG Creator?
Teasing me with something as open and infinitely superior in its complexity as was Dragon Age: Origins, only to follow up with something that is simply NOT in the same style or genre, is completely and utterly unfair. As a gamer and a fan, I care how much profit BioWare makes only insofar as it keeps them afloat to continue making more cool stuff that I like. Selfish, but true of most gamers. I don’t want to see things get blanded away from the features and elements that made BioWare my favourite game maker. While I understand their need to grow and expand, on an intellectual level, I am thoroughly disheartened at this turn of events.

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59.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 14, 2010, 12:56
59.
Re: Op Ed Jul 14, 2010, 12:56
Jul 14, 2010, 12:56
 
These guys must be like those Japanese developers who don't know how to produce modern graphics!

I honestly think that they just like Half-Life/Playstation 2 texture detail. I guess they think it looks pretty to have rolling green landscapes where the ground is a blur of crap texture quality while running off of modern game engines.

It's honestly quasi disturbing and makes me want to smack them for their utter and complete *INCOMPETANCE*.

How the fuck do you buy a modern game engine and FAIL SO ABYSMALLY TO PROVIDE THE BASIC LEVEL OF DETAIL THAT SAID GAME ENGINE IS ALL ABOUT?!!

They go out and pay for a modern game engine and they don't even have a CLUE as to WTF THEY SHOULD BE DOING WITH THEMSELVES.

"Yeah, those screens scare the hell out of me."

You should have noticed that there was a reason for the extra-excited response. Some things in life have to matter at some point.

Garbage in, garbage out.

*FLUSH*

This comment was edited on Jul 14, 2010, 13:06.
58.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 13, 2010, 07:31
58.
Re: Op Ed Jul 13, 2010, 07:31
Jul 13, 2010, 07:31
 
Yeah, those screens scare the hell out of me.

NO NO NO.
Avatar 54622
57.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 12, 2010, 23:10
57.
Re: Op Ed Jul 12, 2010, 23:10
Jul 12, 2010, 23:10
 
Yeah, they should have let this one cook a little more in the oven before doing more then announce it.

Those shots look like it's being made exclusively for the Nintendo DS.
Avatar 36713
56.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 12, 2010, 22:49
56.
Re: Op Ed Jul 12, 2010, 22:49
Jul 12, 2010, 22:49
 
But while you said that - it is never mandatory to always chose paragon - if you RP you answer the way you want which is how i played it the first time.

Except there's absolutely no reason to role-play when the game offers clear benefits to being an extreme Paragon or Renegade, nor is there much room to roleplay when the choices you make are so binary. Even if there was no arbitrary morality system, the choices would still be clear cut and require little to no thought. Unlike Dragon Age, where I often spent minutes pondering over less obvious choices.

As for the screenshots, I wouldn't worry too much about that. They're pretty clearly from a very early build and I highlight doubt the final game will look that bad. I'm not really sure why they even released screenshots if the game is still that early.
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55.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 12, 2010, 21:56
55.
Re: Op Ed Jul 12, 2010, 21:56
Jul 12, 2010, 21:56
 
Ok, now I'm worried...

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Dragon-Age-II-Screenshots-Arrive-25738.html

...ugh

Suddenly I'm worried the next announcement is it'll be rated T for teen.

This comment was edited on Jul 12, 2010, 22:04.
Avatar 36713
54.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 12, 2010, 20:14
54.
Re: Op Ed Jul 12, 2010, 20:14
Jul 12, 2010, 20:14
 
Suddenly_Dead wrote on Jul 12, 2010, 02:55:
Fion wrote on Jul 11, 2010, 20:38:
ME felt like I was just watching it.

DA:O felt like a living world.

I didn't feel that way at all. Everything in DA:O was super-genericized so that dialogue and everything would fit with every possible character, and the environments and NPCs were stale. There were a few lines of dialogue that were character-specific, but they were so few that I wouldn't mind losing them in exchange for a stronger primary character.

I also felt that ME 1/2 flowed quite nicely, and had some nice story progression, both qualities being lackluster in DA:O.

Well to each their own. ME2 felt like an interactive movie with limited choice, strategy and variety (though I still thoroughly enjoyed it) were as DA:O was more an open world were I got to create my own character with their own personality and back story and got to make actual choices with actual consequences. Not just 'choice A = Solution 1.0, choice B = solution 1.1' etc.

Not that either game was worse because if how they were created, they are both very different games in the same genre. But I prefered DA:O and it's style and would not like to see it become Fantasy Mass Effect


On the 'having a predefined character didn't hurt PS:T'. No it didn't, but unlike 99% of the games today the Nameless One had depth and character. He was flawed and often was unsure of what he was doing, let alone why.

I do hope bioware actually has the balls to narrate away from 'mr every soldier, 6' 250lb, buzz cut with a deep voice' that populates almost every single game now adays. I could name off 100 different modern game that featured the same exact character with a different face. I hope they make him more like the Nameless One. Flawed and imperfect and deep and emotional.

Unfortunately as soon as I read 'our protaganist is Hawk, who escaped the war in Lothering and went on to become the most important man in the world!' my stomach sank. Yay.. cardboard marine #327 ftl!

I hope I am wrong on that but something tells me we are getting Dragon Effect. I will withhold my judgement until we see more and I do hope I am proved wrong.

This comment was edited on Jul 12, 2010, 20:21.
Avatar 17499
53.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 12, 2010, 19:56
53.
Re: Op Ed Jul 12, 2010, 19:56
Jul 12, 2010, 19:56
 
Fallout 3 is post apoc sci-fi.. not exactly what i want to see anymore - i want fresh modern awesome sci-fi. Like... Andromeda/Farscape/BSG etc. I just don't get why so few games of that genre exist..

But while you said that - it is never mandatory to always chose paragon - if you RP you answer the way you want which is how i played it the first time.

And yes, most DA:O have depth and complexity... but they are not "mysterious" like Tali or simply extremely interesting like Legion.

Well imo of course.
Avatar 54727
52.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 12, 2010, 15:27
52.
Re: Op Ed Jul 12, 2010, 15:27
Jul 12, 2010, 15:27
 
And it had Tali and Legion who outclass any character in DA:O by lengths.

Can't really agree there. Most of DAO's characters had a lot of depth, though this depth would only become apparent based on the choices you made. I cared a lot more about the characters in DAO because I actually had to put effort into my interactions with them. You had to consider their personalities and background in every choice you made. In ME, you just choose the Paragon option every time and everybody loves you.

The people bashing ME2 probably forgot how many recent sci-fi (action) rpgs there are - yeah thats right. Theres only Mass Effect 1 and 2

And Fallout 3.

This comment was edited on Jul 12, 2010, 15:32.
Avatar 20715
51.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 12, 2010, 13:49
51.
Re: Op Ed Jul 12, 2010, 13:49
Jul 12, 2010, 13:49
 
BobBob wrote on Jul 12, 2010, 08:06:
StingingVelvet wrote on Jul 12, 2010, 07:09:
One really wonders what you hope to gain by posting in threads about RPGs telling everyone RPGs suck.

I'm on a quest to discover the reason why RPGs suck.

If all RPGs suck to you, there's only one common denominator in all that suckage.

You.
50.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 12, 2010, 13:26
50.
Re: Op Ed Jul 12, 2010, 13:26
Jul 12, 2010, 13:26
 
Besides bashing ME2 is extremely silly - given that it had a very engaging story,superb graphics, nice combat and absolutely AWESOME dialog. And it had Tali and Legion who outclass any character in DA:O by lengths.

Granted, DA:O is fantasy so neither of these character stereotypes can be fulfilled in such a style (although Shale comes close..).

The people bashing ME2 probably forgot how many recent sci-fi (action) rpgs there are - yeah thats right. Theres only Mass Effect 1 and 2
Avatar 54727
49.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 12, 2010, 12:48
49.
Re: Op Ed Jul 12, 2010, 12:48
Jul 12, 2010, 12:48
 
Controllers are at least partly why RPG's are designed more like action games these days. You can only do so much with 15 buttons. The developers do what they can with the controller and then think about the keyboard later.

48.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 12, 2010, 11:15
48.
Re: Op Ed Jul 12, 2010, 11:15
Jul 12, 2010, 11:15
 
InBlack wrote on Jul 12, 2010, 10:07:
Erm....Not that I want to give any credit to EA or anything since I consider corporations the cancer of the western world, but what you said there is just plain wrong.

EA got their hands on BioWare in 2007. Almost three years before DA:O was released.

True. I'm not sold on the fact that EA is puppeteering Bioware as heavily as people are making it out.

Even looking at the dev interviews on Mass Effect, Bioware admitted that the first ME was so heavily 'RPGized' with equipment and stats, because they were not that confident in their ability to create more fast paced combat. They finally got things flowing the way they wanted with ME 2 and that was the result of what they learned.

Also, they dedicated a PC team to ME 2 and did not hire a studio to port it like the first game. That doesn't strike me as a company who is bent on crapping on the PC.

We may or may not like their style of doing things going forward with Dragon Age, but I will wait for a bit more info before I commit to calling them sell-outs.
47.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 12, 2010, 10:07
47.
Re: Op Ed Jul 12, 2010, 10:07
Jul 12, 2010, 10:07
 
Erm....Not that I want to give any credit to EA or anything since I consider corporations the cancer of the western world, but what you said there is just plain wrong.

EA got their hands on BioWare in 2007. Almost three years before DA:O was released.
I have a nifty blue line!
Avatar 46994
46.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 12, 2010, 10:02
46.
Re: Op Ed Jul 12, 2010, 10:02
Jul 12, 2010, 10:02
 
necrosis wrote on Jul 12, 2010, 09:44:
I am not getting my hopes up for this the same way I am not getting my hopes up for Witcher 2.
I have no problem with a dev simplifying gameplay or controls, so that you can use a controller. But i have a problem with devs and publishers, who want to sell an unmodified console game as a PC version.
45.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 12, 2010, 09:44
45.
Re: Op Ed Jul 12, 2010, 09:44
Jul 12, 2010, 09:44
 
InBlack wrote on Jul 12, 2010, 09:23:
They still somehow managed to get a game like DA:O out there. An oldskul-like RPG that sold shitloads and was somehow still very satisfying to RPG fans like me.
DA:O was basically DONE by the time EA got their hands on Bioware and demanded a console version delaying the DONE PC version by 8 months for no real reason.

So please. Do not give any credit to EA.

But so far this really is starting to sound like Dragon Effect. The dumbed down choices (Yes/No responses instead of full sentences) and lack of race selection. They say the PC version will stay the same in combat but I have a feeling that will end up getting changed to whatever the console version is by the time we see it in final form.

Yeah I will try and still keep an open mind about it but the current track records of games that start fantastic on consoles and turn into a dumbed down bullshit game for console kiddies is very high.

I am not getting my hopes up for this the same way I am not getting my hopes up for Witcher 2.
44.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 12, 2010, 09:23
44.
Re: Op Ed Jul 12, 2010, 09:23
Jul 12, 2010, 09:23
 
Oh No the End is Nigh!! Bioware sold Out!!!

Well....DUH! BioWare is owned by EA.

They still somehow managed to get a game like DA:O out there. An oldskul-like RPG that sold shitloads and was somehow still very satisfying to RPG fans like me.

So I will give them the benefit of the doubt with this one. Someone mentioned Planescape Torment as good example of a great no make that FANTASTIC rpg that was rather unflexible as to how you started out.

Anyway...We know way to little about this game other than the fact that you start with a guy named Hawk. So far I dont think thats enough information to immediately trash this game as CONSOLIZED.

Ill wait and see, but if it turns out to be MassEffect2 in a fantasy skin Ill be the first to trash it.
I have a nifty blue line!
Avatar 46994
43.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 12, 2010, 08:29
43.
Re: Op Ed Jul 12, 2010, 08:29
Jul 12, 2010, 08:29
 
One really wonders what you hope to gain by posting in threads about RPGs telling everyone RPGs suck.
DNFTT
42.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 12, 2010, 08:06
42.
Re: Op Ed Jul 12, 2010, 08:06
Jul 12, 2010, 08:06
 
StingingVelvet wrote on Jul 12, 2010, 07:09:
One really wonders what you hope to gain by posting in threads about RPGs telling everyone RPGs suck.

I'm on a quest to discover the reason why RPGs suck.
Don't like my post? Submit a complaint
41.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 12, 2010, 07:55
41.
Re: Op Ed Jul 12, 2010, 07:55
Jul 12, 2010, 07:55
 
The best commenter from that source article said:

"In general though, I tend to dislike the homogenization of RPGs into action games with skill trees."

Hooray

I wanted to like the cool down timers, just as long as there were a lot of interesting combat choices to make. But there werent. What we gamers got was a lot of very very easy combat and minimal generic skill choices.

Bioware doesnt care -- their game sold well.
40.
 
Re: Op Ed
Jul 12, 2010, 07:09
40.
Re: Op Ed Jul 12, 2010, 07:09
Jul 12, 2010, 07:09
 
BobBob wrote on Jul 12, 2010, 06:14:
The frustration you summarize is exactly why RPGs as a video game genre fail. Games should be made for fun, challenge, and entertainment. RPGs are needlessly over-complicated in order to try to feel more real and immersive. Typically the result is that you become more disassociated or weighed down by the monotony or over-complexity. The more a game attempts to feel real the less fun it becomes. Real life is usually tedious and boring.

One really wonders what you hope to gain by posting in threads about RPGs telling everyone RPGs suck.
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