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This comment was edited on Jun 27, 2010, 00:39.

Slippery slope arguements are so rarely apt, especially in a situation like this were everyone has the ability to decide what is or is not acceptable. Who determines what is minimal? You, as the player do. Playing this game is entirely optional.

As for reversing something new, there is precedent. City of Heroes introduced real-world ads on the billboards in game. There was a huge player outcry before that happened about how it would lead to ads during loading screens, ads before missions, task forces being brought to you by Taco Bell, etc. None of that happened. A handful of ads went up on billboards, just like the developers said, and that was it. Today, the ads don't exist in game at all. For whatever reason, it proved to be more trouble that it was worth to support the ads in game. Which is something the devlopers also said from the beginning...that ad revenue would never eclipse revenue from subscriptions, and if push came to shove it would be in game ads that would get the boot.

The bottom line is ad revenue for games is just not anywhere near being profitable enough to provide a major source of revenue for a persistent MMO. Even print media and television struggles with remaining solvent through ad revenue alone. Until it is that will prevent advertising in games from becoming out of control in itself. Even without the moral compunctions of the developers ot maintain the purity of their game, it just won't make any business sense. Might as well switch over to a business model of having players pay for subscriptions in bits of string.

Frankly, a game like this that's set in a modern, urban environment is ripe for advertising through billboards; bus stop ads, televisions, radio, etc. I personally feel that kind of realistic use of ad noise would add immensely to the immersion. I'd much rather hear these audio ads blaring out of car steroes as they drive by...especially if I can blow up said car stereo with a rocket launcher.

There's a whole marketting campaing in itself. Blow up 500 Taco Bell billboards in APB and win a coupon for a free soft taco. I'd play it for that reason alone.

This comment was edited on Jun 26, 2010, 16:58.

But some sort of hybrid approach where there is a lower than average monthly subscription and a minimal amount of ads is unacceptable?

Are you just of the opinion that the two can never mix?

But who determines what is "minimal"? Once you start down that slope, who determines what is too much? The player? The publisher? Once something new is forced on the player base that wasn't there previously, what are the odds of that being reversed?

That's like going to the dentist and hearing "This will hurt a little." You know you're being fucking lied to. Because if it was mentioned at all, you're about to get zinged.

Don't forget the microtransactions as well.


Uh, there are no microtransactions, that is, items sold by RTW, in this game.

Looks like those got scrapped, based on the uproar:

http://ve3d.ign.com/articles/news/54959/APB-Microtransaction-Charges-Changed


Follow up here:
http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/64214


But then they also say:

"To clarify, we have no current plans for item transactions in APB - but that has the possibility of changing post-release based on business climate and audience demand," Moreland clarified. "

It's almost like they took it off the table, but make no promises it won't return. This, combined with the ads and pay structure, all seem to be very shady...I get the distinct impression they have no idea if the current model will support them, and they're willing to change it again at any time. Doesn't seem very well thought through or planned out.

Seems very similar to the ramp up to launch of Hellgate, where "oh, by the way, we hope you guys like ads!"

Esoteric wrote on Jun 25, 2010, 21:58:

ibm wrote on Jun 25, 2010, 20:05:

Creston wrote on Jun 25, 2010, 14:59:
So, pay 50 bucks for the game, pay 15 bucks a month for MMO fees, AND hear irritating audio ads?

Nice.

Creston

Don't forget the microtransactions as well.

Uh, there are no microtransactions, that is, items sold by RTW, in this game.

You buy ingame currency to spend on player made stuff. That's still a microtransaction isn't it? Just because you're not buying the item from RTW you're buying the currency from them. Yes you can earn the ingame currency yourself by selling stuff but the economy still gets seeded by exchanging your real money for ingame currency to start with.

Anyone taking a book on how long before APB Flagships? I'll take eight months, two weeks and a day.

I didn't know it was pay to play...
Hmm, still, turn off Voip and talk over teamspeak or some such.

ibm wrote on Jun 25, 2010, 20:05:

Creston wrote on Jun 25, 2010, 14:59:
So, pay 50 bucks for the game, pay 15 bucks a month for MMO fees, AND hear irritating audio ads?

Nice.

Creston

Don't forget the microtransactions as well.

Uh, there are no microtransactions, that is, items sold by RTW, in this game.

If the adds were part of a free to play option then this would be acceptable. Otherwise forget it.

Just to be clear, you think that it's okay to have ads in lieu of a monthly subscription...or a monthly subscription in lieu of ads. But some sort of hybrid approach where there is a lower than average monthly subscription and a minimal amount of ads is unacceptable?

Are you just of the opinion that the two can never mix?

Creston wrote on Jun 25, 2010, 14:59:
So, pay 50 bucks for the game, pay 15 bucks a month for MMO fees, AND hear irritating audio ads?

Nice.

Creston

Don't forget the microtransactions as well.

I played the closed beta that had five hours, but only for like 30 minutes. I played the gang members. However, it was pretty boring.

I found out the fun part is during the group with other players (PvP)? I never got to try it. Did anyone try it? Was it really fun?

Drezden wrote on Jun 25, 2010, 16:12:
I feel like all of you who talk shit about this game didn't spend more than a half hour playing it, simply didn't play it at all and want it to fail for some other strange reason, or the short time you did spend playing it you played alone instead of with friends.

I played for about two weeks in closed beta and most of that was with other people, friends I knew IRL. There was fun to be had; no doubt about it. But the game got boring quickly. I don't want the game to fail. In fact, I very much want it to succeed, but unless they do some drastic restructuring, I don't think it will.

I hope I'm wrong, but all four of us stopped playing shortly before the closed beta ended, and we did so without any regret.

I could care less about an audio ad I'm going to hear once when I log in every day

Sure, it's one ad now. But what about when it's one ad every two hours, then one ad an hour, then one ad with every district change? And then they start putting ads in the radio stations? It can get worse, and the easiest way to do that is to make the changes in small increments.

Ant wrote on Jun 25, 2010, 16:29:

Mostly_Harmless wrote on Jun 25, 2010, 11:57:
If the adds were part of a free to play option then this would be acceptable. Otherwise forget it.

Adds?

My "D" key often Adds extra D's when I drink too much

ASJD wrote on Jun 25, 2010, 15:05:
APB will be the most spectacular MMO failure of all time.

You've heard of Hellgate London right? Those are some pretty big fail shoes to fill.

This comment was edited on Jun 25, 2010, 17:06.

Mostly_Harmless wrote on Jun 25, 2010, 11:57:
If the adds were part of a free to play option then this would be acceptable. Otherwise forget it.

Adds?

I feel like all of you who talk shit about this game didn't spend more than a half hour playing it, simply didn't play it at all and want it to fail for some other strange reason, or the short time you did spend playing it you played alone instead of with friends.

All I know is playing this with 3 other people I know, I spent over 50+ hours during the Keys to the City event (We all ended up getting the unlimited time, after the 5 hours was up) playing this game with them and it's the most fun I've had in some time.

10 Dollars a month is nothing for the amount of fun we will get out of this game, and I could care less about an audio ad I'm going to hear once when I log in every day (cause I'm damn sure I wont log out till it's time to go to bed)

Stop dooming the game before it's even released, it's a lot of fun.

The unfortunate thing is that there is a great game in APB somewhere, I just think they really screwed it up with little things. A last-minute delay for some restructuring could save it, but the bad press is probably already pervasive.

I played my free 5 hours from the trial and when I realized I could kill people just as easily by shooting their feet under a car as a headshot I was pretty much done right there. The hourly rate and 100 person limit were toppers on that decision, as are these audio ads.

They sent out a survey of people who played the trial and I was going to tell them all that, but the survey only asked multiple choice questions about where I heard about the game and what kind of games I play... talk about missing an opportunity.

Wow. The only thing worse than visual ad's in games is audio ones.

same for the web, applies to games too.

they can shove their audio ads up their ass.

Well.....I was a huge cheerleader for this game...until I saw it.

I am really bummed. Had so much potential.

Someone please make a GTA SA game please. Thanks.

APB will be the most spectacular MMO failure of all time.

Dudes should have just stuck to Crackdown, because Crackdown 2 is pretty shit too.

So instead of 1 great game we get 2 dog shit games and 200 people lose their jobs and die in the gutter.

Appropriate.

So, pay 50 bucks for the game, pay 15 bucks a month for MMO fees, AND hear irritating audio ads?

Nice.

Creston