JoeBlack wrote on Jun 15, 2010, 02:03:
And just for future reference, I don't hold any grudges against you nor do I believe you are an idiot. I just hate misinformation and the lack of trying.

Thank you. A gentleman to the last.

Glad I don't write for Wikipedia nor was I aware I was writing a paper for an English class. I imagined that you would have looked it up yourself as I felt maybe I was dealing with an intelligence higher than my own. Since the information was freely available with a very minor google search and that I thought you would prefer to be armed to the teeth with truth rather than it being fed to you.

Anger? No. Annoyed that people won't seek very accessible information themselves to verify what they hold to be true? Yes.

You sir, are the scholar! *bow*

And just for future reference, I don't hold any grudges against you nor do I believe you are an idiot. I just hate misinformation and the lack of trying.

This comment was edited on Jun 15, 2010, 02:24.

kxmode, what has made you angry? I'm pretty sure that JoeBlack is one of the devs of MWLL.

That's twice now... When 0.2.0 came out, Crysis Maximum Edition was $20 bucks on Steam. Now new MWLL 0.3.0 comes out and they are offering it for $20 bucks again. That's how I got my Crysis Maximum edition, when it was last time on sale on Steam. Maybe it's a coincidence that their sales correspond with MWLL releases. I think $20 bucks is worth it so you can play MWLL. Pretty soon the MWLL devs will be porting MWLL to the Crysis Warhead/Crysis Wars engine with all the improvements in multiplayer network that entails. In Crysis you cannot download maps from servers that you do not have. There is no ability to do that. But in Crysis Warhead/Crysis Wars you can. That's one of the obvious multiplayer improvements.

Can't wait for MWLL to be put on Crysis Warhead/Crysis Wars. You can probably tell that I am a Mechwarrior and MWLL lover.

JoeBlack wrote on Jun 14, 2010, 11:52:
You don't have to take my word, you can look that shit up yourself by Googling and browsing the Trademark and Copyright websites as well as Microsofts own websites.

I'm sure with that kind of mentality Wikipedia wouldn't have lasted as long as it has. I'm also quite sure with comments like that your English professor would've given you a "F" when they dare ask you to cite your sources.

JoeBlack wrote on Jun 14, 2010, 11:52:
What can't take the time to do that? Well alright then, to stop this stupid misconception and disinformation, I will do my duty to educate you and the miniscule others who will read this comment subthread!

I sense great anger in you.

Thank you for the links. You are a gentleman and a scholar.

BTW boys and girls, Crysis and Crysis Warhead are on sale again on steam, Crysis Maximum package for $20!

KilrathiAce wrote on Jun 14, 2010, 07:55:
I am still exploring this new patch but for the most part I am impressed, I hope the hotfix will fix some of the server crashing and possibly the sound that indicates u hit a target, it was nearly totally removed(lowered volume) from previous patch and usually you cannot hear it.

That was somewhat intentional, though we'll have it fixed for the next (should be quite a bit faster than 0.2 to 0.3 release) patch. The thinking was that it didn't need to be heard except for people who play from long range but that assumption was wrong and people have let us know since.

You don't have to take my word, you can look that shit up yourself by Googling and browsing the Trademark and Copyright websites as well as Microsofts own websites.

What can't take the time to do that? Well alright then, to stop this stupid misconception and disinformation, I will do my duty to educate you and the miniscule others who will read this comment subthread!

That's how I found out in the beginning and then further clarified through my own emails and personal contacts (thanks to living 25 minutes from parties involved).

You can start here: http://www.google.com

Failing that and if you still think you're right based on the misinformation you believe to be true, you can head here:
http://www.microsoft.com/about/legal/en/us/IntellectualProperty/Trademarks/EN-US.aspx

Then if you're up to it, you can look up Battletech, MechWarrior, Crimson Skies and Shadowrun at the USPTO. I doubt you will because the last link will probably be sufficient enough for you to validate my claims and you'd much rather believe something on the internet than empowering yourself to look it up and find out: http://www.uspto.gov/

Barring that and I'm actually wrong about you and you still need further proof, how about from the horses mouth?: http://smithandtinker.com/news/smith-and-tinker-acquires-fasa-ips.php (Read the wording carefully, acquiring is not the same as owning and they state they are licensing)

Other than that, sorry man, but you'll have to do your own digging.

I am still exploring this new patch but for the most part I am impressed, I hope the hotfix will fix some of the server crashing and possibly the sound that indicates u hit a target, it was nearly totally removed(lowered volume) from previous patch and usually you cannot hear it.

JoeBlack wrote on Jun 13, 2010, 16:03:
kxmode, you are incorrect. Smith and Tinker have a COMMERCIAL LICENSE from Microsoft to utilize the property. Microsoft still holds all IP, Copyright and Trademarks to the electronic versions of Battletech and Mechwarrior. This also holds true for previous FASA properties of Crimson Skies and Shadowrun. You can check the government trademark websites and Microsofts own website.

This is confirmed by Smith and Tinker, Microsoft and the Copyright and Trademarks offices if you call them or email them. They only have license to use the properties, they do now OWN them (There was a lot of confusion in when this happened early on). We were assured by Microsoft that we could continue and this should not have an effect unless Smith and Tinker were to complain and Microsoft would have to agree.

Mektek, a collaborator with Smith and Tinker and Microsoft for Mechwarrior 4 free release also confirms this.

Sources would be nice, but who needs sources when we can just take your word.

And there you have it. The facts. I love facts. They make arguments right.

Also, in regards to our mod; It did start on BF2142 for messing around by the two MWLL brothers who lead MWLL (who now work at Crytek). However everything was 100% rebuilt or made new in Crysis. The progression goes like this:

BF2142 - Early 2006 - Mostly messing around by Criminal and Kamikaze
Quake Wars - Late 2006-2007 - Serious inquiries and preliminary work but fell through due to failure of iD/Splash Damage to provide any sort of SDK that we could use.
Crysis - Late 2007 - After we saw the announcement and Sandbox features in FarCry and the announcement of Crysis from the same developer, we decided to make it for Crysis. After we did the swap Crytek approached us about being in their pre-SDK program.

kxmode, you are incorrect. Smith and Tinker have a COMMERCIAL LICENSE from Microsoft to utilize the property. Microsoft still holds all IP, Copyright and Trademarks to the electronic versions of Battletech and Mechwarrior. This also holds true for previous FASA properties of Crimson Skies and Shadowrun. You can check the government trademark websites and Microsofts own website.

This is confirmed by Smith and Tinker, Microsoft and the Copyright and Trademarks offices if you call them or email them. They only have license to use the properties, they do now OWN them (There was a lot of confusion in when this happened early on). We were assured by Microsoft that we could continue and this should not have an effect unless Smith and Tinker were to complain and Microsoft would have to agree.

Mektek, a collaborator with Smith and Tinker and Microsoft for Mechwarrior 4 free release also confirms this.

This comment was edited on Jun 13, 2010, 16:17.

This mod is awesome. Also, as high quality as it is, it can only create good buzz about the recently announced MW game coming up. Unless of course MWLL is superior to the game - then that could be a problem.

LL started on, and always has been, a Crysis mod. Wink

The project started as a BF2142 mod and then it was renamed to MWLL.
Proof is here, read the descriptions:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YYOWcl-FAg
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tL7AaMhChWU
and
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHkTP8G7IGQ

It is technically correct to say that MWLL was always a Crysis mod simply because it was not called MWLL before it was a Crysis mod. But the genesis of the entire project was on BF2142 first.

Overon wrote on Jun 12, 2010, 22:19:
Mechwarrior Living Legends started out being developed for the battlefied 2142 engine. Then they went to Crysis engine and will soon be going to the Crysis Wars engine. It's been in development for at least since 2007. I don't think anyone who owns the rights to Battletech\Mechwarrior has a problem with this mod.

Overon, I think you have your mods confused. The BT mod that started life on the 2142 engine is still there:

http://www.battlemechhanger.com/

LL started on, and always has been, a Crysis mod.

Mechwarrior Living Legends started out being developed for the battlefied 2142 engine. Then they went to Crysis engine and will soon be going to the Crysis Wars engine. It's been in development for at least since 2007. I don't think anyone who owns the rights to Battletech\Mechwarrior has a problem with this mod.

The Half Elf wrote on Jun 12, 2010, 18:33:
Um there was another Mechwarrior game announced and some gameplay shown about 5 months ago I believe.

actually its nearly a year.

I was hoping there would be a big announcement at E3 but it doesn't look like that will be happening. I'm starting to get a little nervous.

kxmode wrote on Jun 12, 2010, 19:09:
In other words Microsoft no longer has the power to give them permission.

True, Microsoft has no longer can give that permission, but they gave it when they had that power, and I highly doubt that the next owner of the license has the power to retroactively deny the mod from using it.

Think of it this way, if Epic licensed the use of its engine for some price to other developers, but then they decided to sell the rights to the engine to someone else, those contracts would not become invalid just because there is a new owner.

The MWLL dev team was given a right to use the Mechwarrior IP for this specific mod, and I doubt that Smith & Tinker can take it away from them, unless there were some other conditions in the contracts between all the parties that would allow them to do so.

Huzsar wrote on Jun 12, 2010, 18:11:
Why should they if Microsoft gave them permission to use Mechwarrior license?

"Jordan Weisman, founder of Smith & Tinker and previously founder of the disbanded FASA Corporation which worked on the MechWarrior series, negotiated the license back from Microsoft after the software giant left the property idle for years, since their last foray with the MechAssault series." Source

In other words Microsoft no longer has the power to give them permission.

The Half Elf wrote on Jun 12, 2010, 18:33:
Um there was another Mechwarrior game announced and some gameplay shown about 5 months ago I believe.

This. That's what I meant by Smith & Tinker (apologies for calling it Tinker & Smith).

"On September 3, 2009, shortly after posting preview videos and images of the game, IGN was issued a cease and desist order by Harmony Gold USA (owners of the Robotech franchise), citing copyright infringement." Source

If Smith & Tinker, the legal owners of the MechWarrior license, obtains a cease and desist from Harmony Gold USA, then it's only a matter of time before either Smith & Tinker or Harmony Gold USA take notice of this mod and initiate action. The mod team could avoid this by perhaps calling it something else. But this doesn't negate the real problem of the mechs looking like mechs from the Battletech or Robotech universes.