On TF2 Cheaters

The Team Fortress 2 Blog has a post that recalls the recent TF 2 Soldier/Demoman war, noting the stats suggest some cheating may have taken place. They offer the stats and the following analysis:
Now, I have no actual proof that these men cheated. Lucky for me, then, that I am still in possession of basic common bloody sense. The top Soldier, for example, would have had to kill a Demoman every 2.5 seconds for a week straight, somehow circumventing respawn timers or the need to actually traverse across a map, without once pausing to sleep or go to the bathroom. In other words, he is either cheating, or he is a hallucinating sleep-deprived psychotic with severe constipation and unerringly good aim. In either event, I am confident he is ashamed of himself.
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17.
 
Re: On TF2 Cheaters
Feb 2, 2010, 09:26
17.
Re: On TF2 Cheaters Feb 2, 2010, 09:26
Feb 2, 2010, 09:26
 
I still dont think it is cheating, more valve being stupid. Afterall if bots can rack up achievements on valve sync'd servers then go for it - why on earth they havent closed that loophole since the first medic unlocks is beyond me.

Its not hard to set up a "back to the cabinet" array of soldier bots. Then simply "attack1" with your pipe launcher. Dishonest yes but not cheating.

I must reiterate that I am still against this crap but valve should have fixed their damn bugs before give shit like hats.

Its not the cough that carries you off but the coffin they carry you off in.
16.
 
Re: On TF2 Cheaters
Feb 1, 2010, 08:50
16.
Re: On TF2 Cheaters Feb 1, 2010, 08:50
Feb 1, 2010, 08:50
 
I must grudgingly admit an astonishing amount of talent on display. I hasten to add, however, that I find it astonishing only because, in observing how you comport yourselves in-game, on the forums, and presumably in your day-to-day lives, one would be forgiven for assuming you bereft of the cognitive skills needed to operate a mailbox.

Hahaha I love the Administrator.
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15.
 
Re: On TF2 Cheaters
Feb 1, 2010, 08:33
15.
Re: On TF2 Cheaters Feb 1, 2010, 08:33
Feb 1, 2010, 08:33
 
If they can go back and see that someone actually sat around before "the war" spawning and killing soldiers or demomen and repeatedly killing them every 2.5 seconds for weeks and weeks non-stop.....then sure. They chose to play a certain way, not hurting anyone else. And Valve screwed up recording the stats from their server toward the war total stats.

However if this person did no such thing prior to "the war" and suddenly becomes a soldier/demoman killing fool night and day for a week or two. Then I'd say it's a safe bet that while technically he wasn't hacking, he was probably using something to make his gun autofire while he slept, made a map so he'd be next to an ammo box lined up with the enemy bots....and intentionally decided to score big on the scoreboards. In a spirit that was meant to cheat other's of top place and throw the numbers in the favor of one side or the other. He created, with intent, an environment where unless someone did the same thing he was...no one playing regularly could come close to his numbers because he had to have been playing damn near non-stop.

It's the same kind of cheating as people who bet on games concerning their own team, you can't be sure they didn't intentionally screw with the games so they'd win some cash/prizes. (miss a chance to score, intentionally hurt an opposing player, etc)

Was he hacking? Maybe not. Was he undoubtedly and intentionally cheating? Yes. Did he screw up the game to any degree for other players? Yes, Valve used these stats in a game decision. Does he deserve punishment? It depends on whether or not the guy did it intentionally for "the war" or just likes killing things non-stop no matter what. Common sense is telling me yeah he did this intentionally, because who wants the computer to auto-fire while they sleep for really no gain but a bigger score for that one class?


Armengar wrote on Feb 1, 2010, 07:06:
just throwing something into the ring here.

But it isnt cheating. They arent using external program, probably spawning bots then retrying then killing them. Not cheating now is it? Dishonesty yes but not cheating in the same way aimbots are.

Perhaps if valve fixed their own issues such as not letting bots add to stats then this would solve a whole host of issues. Personally I am against stat padding and idling etc etc but I would rather valve fix other bugs in TF2 than worry about stat padders.
14.
 
Re: On TF2 Cheaters
Feb 1, 2010, 07:32
14.
Re: On TF2 Cheaters Feb 1, 2010, 07:32
Feb 1, 2010, 07:32
 
Stats and achievements are hardly any indication of skill. IMO they are a waste of time and usually attract the worst kind of online "players", the stat-hunters and/or cheaters.

The "best" or most-skilled players of any FPS Ive met online dont give a damn about stats. Their skill speaks for itself
I have a nifty blue line!
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13.
 
Re: On TF2 Cheaters
Feb 1, 2010, 07:06
13.
Re: On TF2 Cheaters Feb 1, 2010, 07:06
Feb 1, 2010, 07:06
 
just throwing something into the ring here.

But it isnt cheating. They arent using external program, probably spawning bots then retrying then killing them. Not cheating now is it? Dishonesty yes but not cheating in the same way aimbots are.

Perhaps if valve fixed their own issues such as not letting bots add to stats then this would solve a whole host of issues. Personally I am against stat padding and idling etc etc but I would rather valve fix other bugs in TF2 than worry about stat padders.
Its not the cough that carries you off but the coffin they carry you off in.
12.
 
Re: On TF2 Cheaters
Feb 1, 2010, 03:22
12.
Re: On TF2 Cheaters Feb 1, 2010, 03:22
Feb 1, 2010, 03:22
 
I think they should get a uniform or something over their heads for a month saying Im a cheat!

This comment was edited on Feb 1, 2010, 03:23.
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11.
 
Re: On TF2 Cheaters
Jan 31, 2010, 22:27
11.
Re: On TF2 Cheaters Jan 31, 2010, 22:27
Jan 31, 2010, 22:27
 
Sepharo wrote on Jan 31, 2010, 22:17:
I know you guys are joking (or at least I hope you are), but giving achievements for cheating is the worst idea ever.

Yeah that must be a joke. Either that or one of the worst ideas I've ever heard.
10.
 
Re: On TF2 Cheaters
Jan 31, 2010, 22:17
10.
Re: On TF2 Cheaters Jan 31, 2010, 22:17
Jan 31, 2010, 22:17
 
I know you guys are joking (or at least I hope you are), but giving achievements for cheating is the worst idea ever.
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9.
 
Re: On TF2 Cheaters
Jan 31, 2010, 19:03
9.
Re: On TF2 Cheaters Jan 31, 2010, 19:03
Jan 31, 2010, 19:03
 
Sounds good to me, but I'd start it at at least 50 kills to redeem themselves. I agree about the costumes and people cheating just to get them because they're different. Probably not the best idea. I think random wonkiness being applied to them is probably a good thing though. Kinda like that "roll the dice" mod, except all the possible effects are bad or at least annoying
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." -- Bertrand Russell (I think...)
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8.
 
Re: On TF2 Cheaters
Jan 31, 2010, 16:54
8.
Re: On TF2 Cheaters Jan 31, 2010, 16:54
Jan 31, 2010, 16:54
 
Hell why not have some fun, put a permanent snaring effect on em so they run about heavy speed as a scout. Then make it so their ranged weapons jam 50% of the time, and their melee weapons are replaced with a rubber chicken that extracts 1 point of damage each hit.

Because it wasn't as if someone would cheat and kill specifically demoman if it wasn't to throw off the stats that EVERY OTHER player was contributing to. I don't have a problem with people cheating on their own servers or servers that don't mind it, but cheating on servers that don't welcome it and with the intention of tampering with other people's efforts should be frowned upon.

I say throw some of those anti-cheating "perks" at em, and require em to get 10 kills. If they cheat to get the 10 kills, make it 100, then 1000...and just keep on adding a zero to the end until they make it clear that they are just a downright cheat and banning is the only way to deal with em.

That way people have fun killing em, TF2 monitors have fun imposing punishments, and they get discouraged from cheating.

Plus any kind of costume, tag, etc you give them...some people would probably cheat just to get it because most people wouldn't have it. So dunno. But letting cheaters throw statistics off that effect everyone else even in a minor way is bad.

It's like MMOs, 1 person cheating via dupes or easy PVP hacks.....can effect 10 or more people easily. And either those 10 or more cheat to get even or suffer to this 1 person. Some will cheat, some will quit, and some will hope it's fixed. Then those new cheaters go on to inflict their cheats against even more people. And pretty soon the people hoping for fixes get tired of waiting, and all that's left is mostly cheaters. Who get bored when there's no easy prey or people to exploit. Far too many games let this stuff slide with a warning or turn a blind eye (blizzard and it's 6 months ban cycles on the various bots, for the new box sales boosts).

This comment was edited on Jan 31, 2010, 16:55.
7.
 
Re: On TF2 Cheaters
Jan 31, 2010, 16:46
mag
7.
Re: On TF2 Cheaters Jan 31, 2010, 16:46
Jan 31, 2010, 16:46
mag
 
joe2tiger wrote on Jan 31, 2010, 16:40:
What about the colonial days of old? Brand people with the scarlet letter instead of banning.. How about add the prefix [cheater] before their name in all their games so that they would get grief for that? Just a thought...
Haha. That would be pretty awesome. Here's a vote for the Cheater brand.
6.
 
Re: On TF2 Cheaters
Jan 31, 2010, 16:40
6.
Re: On TF2 Cheaters Jan 31, 2010, 16:40
Jan 31, 2010, 16:40
 
What about the colonial days of old? Brand people with the scarlet letter instead of banning.. How about add the prefix [cheater] before their name in all their games so that they would get grief for that? Just a thought...

This comment was edited on Jan 31, 2010, 16:41.
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5.
 
Re: On TF2 Cheaters
Jan 31, 2010, 16:15
5.
Re: On TF2 Cheaters Jan 31, 2010, 16:15
Jan 31, 2010, 16:15
 
So the response to this article should be a followup that says "top 20 people appear to have cheated, so their steam accounts have been banned across all games".

Just a thought.
4.
 
Re: On TF2 Cheaters
Jan 31, 2010, 16:14
4.
Re: On TF2 Cheaters Jan 31, 2010, 16:14
Jan 31, 2010, 16:14
 
It shouldn't be hard to figure out the criteria of what's considered cheating and then throw out those number's contribution to the end results and see if the soldier still won.
3.
 
Re: On TF2 Cheaters
Jan 31, 2010, 16:09
3.
Re: On TF2 Cheaters Jan 31, 2010, 16:09
Jan 31, 2010, 16:09
 
It should be much easier to do that on an achievement server.

Just spawn a bunch of demos and you could kill them in bunches very quickly. Always some asshats in any online game, what can you do?
2.
 
Re: On TF2 Cheaters
Jan 31, 2010, 15:55
2.
Re: On TF2 Cheaters Jan 31, 2010, 15:55
Jan 31, 2010, 15:55
 
Additionally, if I recall, the extra 50,000 kills the gave to the one that the contest winner wanted, made a HUGE and win-changing difference.
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1.
 
Re: On TF2 Cheaters
Jan 31, 2010, 15:47
1.
Re: On TF2 Cheaters Jan 31, 2010, 15:47
Jan 31, 2010, 15:47
 
Pretty funny, and completely unsurprising.
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." -- Bertrand Russell (I think...)
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