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Op Ed

Ars Technica - When religion and games intersect-and how it often goes badly.
In fact, religion seems to be such a taboo subject to include in video games that the only type of faith that really appears in titles here in the US is Christianity. Even then, the subject is often poorly addressed in games that are themselves poorly made. But why is it that religious content is so sparse in the realm of video games? The reasons are largely based on contention between religious and industry leaders, as well as the fact that you'll rarely find a topic as personal as faith.

Gamasutra - The Evolution Of The Class System In Games. Thanks Joker961.
This concept of min/maxing was something that grew out of the character design method of D&D. Depending on the character a player wanted, they could throw all of their weakness onto an irrelevant stat and turn themselves into a monster. TF2 characters are premade with this design in mind, so there’s less room for play customization, but less worry about game balance.

View
81. Re: Op Ed Dec 30, 2009, 13:25 Wowbagger_TIP
 
Ok, I'm ok now. Back to our regularly scheduled programming...

I'm not convinced that you actually disagree with my observation that many Christians don't act in accordance with Christian beliefs.

For the reason that I stated earlier: I do.

All sin.

(That doesn't preclude human beings from stating accurately what the Scriptures say.)

Stating scripture and abiding by it are two very different things. If all that was required of us was to state it correctly we could all be good Christians without much effort at all!

I have, but it hasn't been Christians angry over others' celebrations, which is what you stated.
No, that's not what I stated. I said they were angry that people weren't saying "Merry Christmas" rather than "happy holidays". Not because they're angry over others' celebrations, but because they either don't realize there are other celebrations, or because they just feel like Christmas should get top billing regardless. I'm not sure what their reasoning is, or if there actually is any real reasoning for it. But they sure are mad...

Let's begin with -- off the top of my head -- this:

"When in the course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them . . . all men are created equal . . . endowed by their Creator . . . pursuit of Happiness [morality] . . . appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world . . . with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence . . . sacred honor."

That's all you got? That doesn't seem to have anything to do with the Christian religion, but is deistic in nature. Not surprising given that some of the founding fathers were deists, and that most held the Christian religion in contempt. Seems like a good time to define it...

Deism: a religious and philosophical belief that a supreme being created the universe, and that this (and religious truth in general) can be determined using reason and observation of the natural world alone, without a need for either faith or organized religion.

The Founding Fathers wanted to protect religion from the state, not the state from religion.

They were not opposed to government supporting religion.
They were definitely opposed to government supporting religion, because they'd seen what happens when governments get involved with religion. Governments do what governments always do, they regulate! Here's a quote by Madison on this very subject:
"Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity in exclusion of all other religions may establish, with the same ease, any particular sect of Christians in exclusion of all other sects? That the same authority which can force a citizen to contribute threepence only of his property for the support of any one establishment may force him to conform to any other establishment in all cases whatsoever?"

and another essential one:
"I must admit moreover that it may not be easy, in every possible case, to trace the line of separation between the rights of religion and the Civil authority with such distinctness as to avoid collisions and doubts on unessential points. The tendency of a usurpation on one side or the other, or to a corrupting coalition or alliance between them, will be best guarded by an entire abstinence of the Government from interference in any way whatever, beyond the necessity of preserving public order, and protecting each sect against trespass on its legal rights by others."

They absolutely DID NOT want the government having any power to involve itself in religion AT ALL. They believe that everyone should have the right to freedom of religion and freedom from religion. Jefferson and Madison were especially determined that this be so. Neither were Christian. Jefferson simply held his own set of beliefs separate from any religion and Madison was, by all accounts, a Deist. They were both very wary of organized religion and believed that it had caused untold pain and suffering around the world. They'd seen the bloodshed caused by government lending support to one denomination over another. Shall I retrieve more quotes along these lines?

I bet you could find more non-Christian cultures that adhere more closely to the commandments than western cultures.

All of them would blow the first three, by definition.

All sin.
Red herring. You still haven't responded to my point that the Ten Commandments are obviously not the foundation for our laws. I never made any claim about the first three commandments, except to note that they, along with four others, are not reflected in our laws.

Organs of the state have no right to limit religious liberty.
Organs of the state have no right to get involved in religion at all. This means no school officials leading prayers. This means no allowance for individuals or groups to infringe on the rights of others in public institutions (read: no proselytizing, sermons, or religious rituals in school). This does not limit your right to practice your religion. Ever hear the phrase, "my right to swing my fist ends at your nose"? Same concept here. You have an absolute right to express your religious beliefs, except insofar as your doing so infringes on the rights of others. This is really not a difficult concept.

I was referring to students (not officials) being punished for having a Bible, praying at lunch time, valedictory addresses being censored over religious speech, etc.

Government has no right to do that.
Government has no right to censor speech except when it infringes on the rights of others. I agree that there have been many cases handled badly. That certainly hasn't been limited to Christians though. People of other faiths have had their speech censored as well, sometimes due to the protests of Christians. Wiccans, Muslims and others have been censored more consistently than Christians have, if not as often due to their much smaller numbers and tendency to avoid proselytizing.

In my mind there is a limit to what should be allowed in a public institution with a captive audience like a school. I, personally, find no problem with someone mentioning God or their faith or whatever other belief they hold. When it crosses over into reading from religious texts and proselitizing, I think that's where the line has to be drawn. Others should not have to be subjected to sermons as part of their participation in a public forum. Do you disagree?

Seriously, if a school happens to be entirely made up of practitioners of Santeria -- and local health codes don't forbid it -- why not?
Why does it need to be entirely made up of practitioners of Santeria? Does that mean you believe a school need to be entirely made up Christians before a group prayer is allowed before a game?

Also, are you saying that the government does have a right to limit religious expression for health purposes? Is that the only purpose you consider acceptable? Why or why not?

A cross on a desert mountain, a Nativity on a Christian-majority city's main street, "In God we trust" on a coin, a child praying at lunch, the Ten Commandments on a courthouse wall -- none of those are Congress establishing a religion.
They can be construed as the government giving preference to a religion though, which is also against the intent of the separation clause. I take special exception to your describing the one incident as "a Nativity on a Christian-majority city's main street." Do you not understand that the First Amendment is intended to protect the rights of the minority from the majority? Popular speech needs no protection. Unpopular, minority speech is what always needs protection. The fact that it was a Christian-majority city has NO BEARING on what is permissible on the part of the government. Other references to God are generally Deist in nature, and while I disagree with their being allowed, the courts refuse to accept them as having a religious nature. There have been several cases involving the Ten Commandments. They have generally come down on the side of them not being allowed if they are portrayed in a way that is religious in nature.

If a Buddhist valedictorian wants to talk about what Buddhism has meant to his life, what's wrong with that?
Nothing as long as it doesn't turn into a sermon about Buddhism or proseletyzation. Here's an example of what I'm talking about:
"Corder steered away from the approved speech to share about her faith in Jesus Christ and encouraged fellow classmates who “don’t already know [Jesus] personally … to find out more about the sacrifice he made for you.”
From an online article.

That's proseletyzation, plain and simple, and the other students have a right to not be subjected to that in a public institution.

If a Hindu quarterback wants to thank Vishnu at a football game, should ATF be called in?
Why does he need a microphone in order to thank a god?

If a Jewish group wants to display a menorah at city hall for Hanukkah, what's offensive about that?
Nothing as long as all other religious groups are allowed the same access. No putting one in a place of prominence and others off to the side or around back.

According to your link, it was not establishing one religion over another, it was preventing just anyone from erecting whatever they want, wherever they want.

(I'm not saying that I agree or disagree with their decision.)
No, I'd really like to hear your argument on this. Since you've claimed that any restriction by the government amounts to an infringement on your right to express your religious beliefs, how do you feel that one religion is allowed to have their symbol displayed in the park and another is prohibited from it? Isn't that exactly what you've been arguing against in the school topic?

So atheists have their religion established at the expense of Christians (and everyone else who might have wanted a display).
I don't see any monument proclaiming that God doesn't exist. How do you come to this conclusion? Do we need to have monuments posted in every park and public space to make religious people secure in their beliefs?

I do not argue for limiting anyone's religious expression, unless it is agitates for obvious evil -- advancing shari'a (religious and gender persecution), or the cult of Diana (temple prostitution), or sacrifice to Molech or Tlaloc (child sacrifice) is unacceptable.
"obvious evil" is a pretty vague standard. Would condoning shoplifting by the poor be considered obvious evil? Is prostitution really an obvious evil? I think you'll need to do better than that.

Some might want to "push;" my sense is that for most, it is celebration, tradition, and/or celebration of tradition.
You can celebrate all you want on your own property and property of other like-minded individuals. Not on the property of the public. Again, it goes back to the issue of you can't let everyone do it (usually), so it's best for the government to stay completely out of it. Refer to the Madison quote earlier regarding the dangers of government getting involved...

Your two examples were of religious expression being denied (no Aphorisms and nothing, period).
I was referring to the countless cases of teacher/principal-lead prayer in schools over the decades. Prayers at sporting events. There are too many examples of these to even count.

Jefferson used federal monies to teach the Indians the Gospel of Jesus Christ. he personally authored "The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth". He approved funding while president for this. Annual support for the Tribe's Roman Catholic priest and church. The treaty approved stated: "And whereas, the greater part of the Tribe having been baptized and received into the Catholic Church, to which they are much attached, the United States will give annually for seven years one hundred dollars towards the support of a priest of that religion.. and.. three hundred dollars to assist the said Tribe in the erection of a church"
The Life and Morals of Jesus of Nazareth is essentially a secular version of the Bible created by Jefferson. He respected the teachings that were offered in the accounts of Jesus' life. He simply removed all references to angels, virgin birth, miracles, resurrection, prophecy, etc, and just included the things he considered useful. To him, Jesus was just a man with a philosophy that he found to be good and sound. I don't see that that really supports your point.

 
Avatar 9540
 
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." -- Bertrand Russell (I think...)
Previous Post Next Post Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
    Date Subject Author
  1. Dec 26, 18:03 Re: Op Ed Wallshadows
  3. Dec 26, 19:52  Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  2. Dec 26, 18:48 Re: Op Ed space captain
  4. Dec 26, 20:04  Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  5. Dec 26, 20:12 dont cry space captain
  6. Dec 26, 21:17  Re: dont cry Amillennialist
  7. Dec 26, 21:47   Re: dont cry Numinar
  8. Dec 26, 22:06    Re: dont cry Amillennialist
  10. Dec 27, 00:48     Re: dont cry Jerykk
  11. Dec 27, 01:17      Re: dont cry PHJF
  12. Dec 27, 08:50       Re: dont cry Spektr
  17. Dec 27, 16:01        Re: dont cry Amillennialist
  18. Dec 27, 16:15         Re: dont cry PHJF
  16. Dec 27, 15:51       Re: dont cry Amillennialist
  15. Dec 27, 15:43      Re: dont cry Amillennialist
  13. Dec 27, 10:32     Re: dont cry Xenopulse
  21. Dec 27, 18:23      Re: dont cry Amillennialist
  9. Dec 26, 23:02   Re: dont cry space captain
  14. Dec 27, 12:00 fuck em if they cant take a joke space captain
  22. Dec 27, 18:40  Re: fuck em if they cant take a joke Amillennialist
  19. Dec 27, 16:46 Re: Op Ed space captain
  23. Dec 27, 19:01  Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  24. Dec 27, 20:20   Re: Op Ed PHJF
  25. Dec 27, 21:41    Re: Op Ed Jerykk
  26. Dec 27, 23:12     Re: Op Ed Jason
  32. Dec 28, 02:21      Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  28. Dec 27, 23:36     Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  34. Dec 28, 02:53      Re: Op Ed Jerykk
  37. Dec 28, 04:43       Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  38. Dec 28, 05:01        Re: Op Ed Jerykk
  40. Dec 28, 12:19         Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  41. Dec 28, 12:23          Re: Op Ed nin
  44. Dec 28, 14:30           Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  45. Dec 28, 14:42            Re: Op Ed nin
  47. Dec 28, 15:54             Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  48. Dec 28, 16:00              Re: Op Ed nin
  49. Dec 28, 16:09               Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  101. Jan 1, 17:54           Re: Op Ed shul
  53. Dec 28, 18:44          Re: Op Ed Jerykk
  57. Dec 29, 15:09           Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  65. Dec 29, 20:21            Re: Op Ed Jerykk
  67. Dec 29, 21:59             Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  39. Dec 28, 06:02        Re: Op Ed rocketpcguy
  43. Dec 28, 14:27         Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  27. Dec 27, 23:19    Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  29. Dec 27, 23:51     Re: Op Ed Jason
  33. Dec 28, 02:26      Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  42. Dec 28, 12:50       Re: Op Ed Jason
  46. Dec 28, 15:37        Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  52. Dec 28, 18:43         Re: Op Ed Yifes
  56. Dec 29, 14:34          Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  60. Dec 29, 16:36           Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  63. Dec 29, 18:29            Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  64. Dec 29, 20:02             Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  68. Dec 29, 23:27              Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  70. Dec 30, 01:42               Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  73. Dec 30, 04:50                Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  82. Dec 30, 14:20                 Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  83. Dec 30, 17:29                  Re: Op Ed Pankin
  94. Dec 31, 15:16                   Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  100. Dec 31, 18:10                  Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  106. Jan 3, 23:15                   Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  108. Jan 4, 01:59                    Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  110. Jan 4, 15:49                     Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  112. Jan 5, 04:26                      Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  114. Jan 5, 13:04                       Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  115. Jan 6, 05:39                        Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  116. Jan 7, 16:11                         Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  118. Jan 9, 18:17                          Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  119. Jan 10, 16:30                           Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  120. Jan 11, 04:03                            Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  121. Jan 14, 19:24                             Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  122. Jan 15, 07:48                              Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  123. Jan 15, 16:03                               Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  124. Jan 15, 20:29                                Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  125. Jan 15, 20:53                                 Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  129. Jan 16, 01:58                                  Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  130. Jan 16, 02:47                                   Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  131. Jan 16, 14:45                                    Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  132. Jan 17, 22:16                                     Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  133. Jan 18, 16:56                                      Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  134. Jan 18, 19:54                                       Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  135. Jan 18, 20:19                                        Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  137. Jan 19, 00:05                                         Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  138. Jan 19, 04:08                                          Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  139. Jan 19, 16:19                                           Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  140. Jan 21, 04:11                                            Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  141. Jan 21, 15:22                                             Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  142. Jan 21, 19:04                                              Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  143. Jan 21, 20:46                                               Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  148. Jan 22, 02:26                                                Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  149. Jan 22, 11:04                                                 Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  150. Jan 22, 13:29                                                  Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  151. Jan 22, 14:51                                                   Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  152. Jan 22, 19:17                                                    Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  153. Jan 22, 19:37                                                     Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  155. Jan 23, 03:02                                                      Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  158. Jan 23, 14:30                                                       Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  162. Jan 25, 01:12                                                        Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  163. Jan 25, 03:34                                                         Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  164. Jan 25, 08:07                                                          Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  165. Jan 25, 18:51                                                           Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  167. Jan 26, 14:54                                                            Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  168. Jan 26, 18:40                                                             Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  170. Jan 26, 21:38                                                              Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  173. Jan 28, 04:17                                                               Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  175. Jan 28, 14:03                                                                Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  177. Jan 31, 00:34                                                                 Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  178. Jan 31, 02:51                                                                  Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  179. Jan 31, 05:12                                                                   Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  180. Jan 31, 12:27                                                                    Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  181. Jan 31, 19:43                                                                     Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  182. Jan 31, 22:00                                                                      Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  184. Feb 1, 03:22                                                                       Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  187. Feb 1, 11:51                                                                        Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  188. Feb 1, 22:58                                                                         Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  190. Feb 2, 00:39                                                                          Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  193. Feb 3, 18:41                                                                           Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  194. Feb 3, 20:18                                                                            Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  198. Feb 6, 16:23                                                                             Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  201. Feb 7, 22:55                                                                              Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  203. Feb 8, 14:10                                                                               Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  204. Feb 8, 16:37                                                                                Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  205. Feb 9, 23:51                                                                                 Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  207. Feb 10, 00:57                                                                                  Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  208. Feb 10, 01:06                                                                                   Re: Op Ed rocketpcguy
  209. Feb 11, 03:16                                                                                    Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  211. Feb 11, 05:07                                                                                     Re: Op Ed rocketpcguy
  212. Feb 11, 05:37                                                                                      Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  214. Feb 11, 12:56                                                                                       Re: Op Ed Sepharo
  215. Feb 11, 18:33                                                                                        Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  216. Feb 11, 19:09                                                                                         Re: Op Ed Sepharo
  217. Feb 11, 19:27                                                                                          Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  219. Feb 11, 19:37                                                                                          Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  220. Feb 11, 21:02                                                                                           Re: Op Ed Sepharo
  222. Feb 12, 02:18                                                                                            Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  223. Feb 12, 02:29                                                                                             Re: Op Ed Sepharo
  224. Feb 12, 04:00                                                                                              Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  225. Feb 12, 13:23                                                                                               Re: Op Ed Sepharo
  227. Feb 12, 19:11                                                                                                Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  228. Feb 13, 08:09                                                                                                 Re: Op Ed rocketpcguy
  230. Feb 15, 19:27                                                                                                  Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  233. Feb 16, 11:41                                                                                                   Re: Op Ed rocketpcguy
  229. Feb 13, 13:05                                                                                                 Re: Op Ed Sepharo
  231. Feb 15, 20:39                                                                                                  Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  232. Feb 15, 23:29                                                                                                   Re: Op Ed Sepharo
  234. Feb 16, 11:50                                                                                                    Re: Op Ed rocketpcguy
  236. Feb 16, 14:20                                                                                                     Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  237. Feb 16, 14:40                                                                                                      Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  238. Feb 16, 15:12                                                                                                       Re: Op Ed Sepharo
  239. Feb 16, 15:20                                                                                                        Re: Op Ed nin
  240. Feb 16, 17:41                                                                                                         Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  241. Feb 19, 08:22                                                                                                          Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  235. Feb 16, 13:06                                                                                                    Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  221. Feb 11, 22:39                                                                                           Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  210. Feb 11, 03:58                                                                                   Darwinism is dead Amillennialist
  213. Feb 11, 09:35                                                                                    Re: Darwinism is dead Wowbagger_TIP
  218. Feb 11, 19:36                                                                                     Re: Darwinism is dead Amillennialist
  183. Jan 31, 22:50                                                                      Re: Op Ed Sepharo
  185. Feb 1, 04:09                                                                       Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  191. Feb 3, 02:45                                                                        Re: Op Ed Sepharo
  192. Feb 3, 18:21                                                                         Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  144. Jan 21, 21:11                                               Re: Op Ed Sepharo
  145. Jan 22, 01:31                                                Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  146. Jan 22, 01:37                                                 Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  147. Jan 22, 01:43                                                  Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  117. Jan 7, 16:11                         Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  107. Jan 3, 23:15                   Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  72. Dec 30, 04:22         Re: Op Ed Jason
  74. Dec 30, 07:23          Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  80. Dec 30, 12:33           Re: Op Ed Jason
  86. Dec 31, 00:32            Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  87. Dec 31, 00:34             Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  50. Dec 28, 18:15      Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  54. Dec 28, 22:23       Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  55. Dec 29, 09:24        Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  58. Dec 29, 15:42         Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  59. Dec 29, 16:03          Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  61. Dec 29, 17:02           Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  62. Dec 29, 17:59            Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  66. Dec 29, 21:54             Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  69. Dec 30, 01:23              Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  71. Dec 30, 04:18               Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  75. Dec 30, 09:31                Re: Op Ed Pankin
  76. Dec 30, 09:41                Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  77. Dec 30, 10:47                 Re: Op Ed nin
  78. Dec 30, 11:46                  Re: Op Ed Pankin
  79. Dec 30, 11:57                   Re: Op Ed nin
  84. Dec 30, 19:55                 Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
>> 81. Dec 30, 13:25                Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  88. Dec 31, 03:32                 Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  89. Dec 31, 03:47                  Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  90. Dec 31, 04:31                   Re: Op Ed Kosumo
  96. Dec 31, 15:32                    Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  93. Dec 31, 12:18                   Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  92. Dec 31, 11:00                  Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  51. Dec 28, 18:16     Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  20. Dec 27, 17:07 Religious gamers... UnderLord
  30. Dec 28, 00:21 Re: Op Ed StreetPreacher
  35. Dec 28, 03:42  Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  31. Dec 28, 00:37 Re: Op Ed space captain
  36. Dec 28, 04:14  Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  85. Dec 30, 21:52 Re: Op Ed The PC Warrior
  95. Dec 31, 15:25  Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  91. Dec 31, 10:30 Re: Op Ed space captain
  97. Dec 31, 16:03  Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  98. Dec 31, 16:28   Re: Op Ed space captain
  99. Dec 31, 17:24    Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  102. Jan 2, 15:45 Re: Op Ed Pankin
  103. Jan 2, 16:19  Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  104. Jan 2, 21:16   Re: Op Ed Pankin
  105. Jan 3, 19:47   Re: Op Ed Jerykk
  109. Jan 4, 03:00 Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  111. Jan 4, 15:49  Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  113. Jan 5, 04:51   Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  126. Jan 15, 22:54 Re: Op Ed Sepharo
  127. Jan 16, 00:18  Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  128. Jan 16, 01:18  Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  136. Jan 18, 23:23 Re: Op Ed Sepharo
  154. Jan 22, 19:39 Re: Op Ed Sepharo
  156. Jan 23, 03:02  Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  157. Jan 23, 14:03   Re: Op Ed Sepharo
  159. Jan 24, 20:51    Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  160. Jan 24, 21:12     Re: Op Ed Sepharo
  161. Jan 24, 22:50      Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  166. Jan 25, 19:42       Re: Op Ed Sepharo
  169. Jan 26, 19:45        Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  171. Jan 26, 21:49 Re: Op Ed Sepharo
  172. Jan 28, 02:55  Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  174. Jan 28, 08:56   Re: Op Ed Sepharo
  176. Jan 30, 22:16    Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  186. Feb 1, 09:02 Re: Op Ed Sepharo
  189. Feb 2, 00:17  Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  195. Feb 3, 20:29 Re: Op Ed Sepharo
  196. Feb 5, 07:43  Re: Op Ed rocketpcguy
  199. Feb 6, 17:08   Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  200. Feb 6, 20:45    Re: Op Ed Sepharo
  202. Feb 8, 13:50     Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  197. Feb 6, 15:07  Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  206. Feb 9, 23:53 Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  226. Feb 12, 19:01 Re: Op Ed Sepharo
  242. Feb 19, 18:30 Re: Op Ed Sepharo
  243. Feb 23, 02:15  Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  244. Feb 23, 13:06   Re: Op Ed Sepharo
  246. Feb 23, 23:50    Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  248. Feb 24, 00:30     Re: Op Ed Sepharo
  250. Feb 24, 02:00      Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  254. Feb 24, 13:09       Re: Op Ed Sepharo
  255. Feb 25, 01:05        Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  256. Feb 25, 01:41         Re: Op Ed Sepharo
  257. Feb 25, 03:33          Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  258. Feb 25, 19:34           Re: Op Ed Sepharo
  259. Feb 25, 21:41            Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  260. Feb 25, 22:18             Re: Op Ed Sepharo
  263. Feb 26, 03:59              Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  266. Feb 26, 19:12               Re: Op Ed Sepharo
  270. Feb 27, 15:37                Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  261. Feb 26, 02:59            Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  265. Feb 26, 19:03             Re: Op Ed Sepharo
  269. Feb 27, 14:59              Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  262. Feb 26, 03:50            Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  264. Feb 26, 12:00             Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  268. Feb 27, 14:35              Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  274. Mar 1, 11:18               Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  277. Mar 1, 23:37                Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  279. Mar 2, 00:23                 Re: Op Ed Sepharo
  280. Mar 2, 01:02                 Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  282. Mar 3, 03:29                  Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  283. Mar 3, 12:22                   Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  267. Feb 26, 20:19             Re: Op Ed Sepharo
  271. Feb 27, 16:08              Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  245. Feb 23, 15:51   Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  247. Feb 23, 23:51    Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  249. Feb 24, 01:20     Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  251. Feb 24, 02:14      Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  252. Feb 24, 02:15      Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  253. Feb 24, 02:16      Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  272. Feb 27, 18:12 Re: Op Ed Sepharo
  273. Mar 1, 03:45  Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  275. Mar 1, 18:30   Re: Op Ed Sepharo
  276. Mar 1, 22:12    Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  278. Mar 2, 00:11     Re: Op Ed Sepharo
  281. Mar 3, 02:58      Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  284. Mar 3, 18:49       Re: Op Ed Sepharo
  285. Mar 4, 09:42        Re: Op Ed nin
  286. Mar 5, 00:26         Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  287. Mar 6, 03:06        Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  288. Mar 6, 04:31 Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  289. Mar 8, 10:54  Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  290. Mar 11, 21:07   Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  291. Mar 12, 12:01    Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  292. Mar 15, 19:31     Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  293. Mar 15, 22:49      Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  294. Apr 20, 02:17       Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  295. Apr 27, 13:03        Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  297. Apr 28, 02:19         Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  298. Apr 28, 14:02          Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  299. Apr 28, 14:08           Re: Op Ed Sepharo
  300. Apr 28, 16:57            Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  301. May 1, 23:54            Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  302. May 2, 01:28             Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  305. May 4, 22:32              Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  306. May 4, 23:42               Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  308. May 5, 01:09                Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  303. May 2, 17:56             Re: Op Ed Sepharo
  304. May 2, 19:46              Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  307. May 4, 23:48              Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  296. Apr 28, 00:10 Re: Op Ed Sepharo
  309. May 5, 01:33 Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  310. May 5, 01:43  Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  311. May 5, 01:46   Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  314. May 5, 02:58   Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  318. May 12, 05:18   Wowbagger: The gift that keeps on giving Amillennialist
  320. May 12, 13:36    Re: Wowbagger: The gift that keeps on giving Wowbagger_TIP
  321. May 17, 00:08     Re: Wowbagger: The gift that keeps on giving Amillennialist
  322. May 17, 09:32      Re: Wowbagger: The gift that keeps on giving Wowbagger_TIP
  323. May 18, 00:54       Re: Wowbagger: The gift that keeps on giving Amillennialist
  324. May 18, 01:35       Re: Wowbagger: The gift that keeps on giving Amillennialist
  325. May 18, 12:04        Re: Wowbagger: The gift that keeps on giving Wowbagger_TIP
  326. May 20, 03:34         Loose ends Amillennialist
  327. May 20, 18:33          Re: Loose ends Wowbagger_TIP
  328. May 20, 19:09           Re: Loose ends  Blue 
  331. Jul 9, 01:46            Re: Loose ends The Opera Ghost
  332. Jul 9, 07:32             Re: Loose ends Beamer
  333. Jul 9, 08:28             Re: Loose ends nin
  335. Jul 9, 09:50             Re: Loose ends  Blue 
  312. May 5, 02:20 Re: Op Ed Sepharo
  313. May 5, 02:52  Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  317. May 5, 21:19   Re: Op Ed Sepharo
  319. May 12, 05:45    Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  315. May 5, 03:14 Re: Op Ed Amillennialist
  316. May 5, 09:30  Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  329. May 20, 19:58 Re: Op Ed Sepharo
  330. May 20, 23:10  Re: Op Ed Wowbagger_TIP
  334. Jul 9, 09:45 Re: Op Ed Sepharo


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