Christ please tell me you've never served on a jury. You have a frightening train of logic.

You mean you or christ it frightened?

Your joking right, did I say I was judging it solely on a PR release or are you mentally challenged? Do you actually know what the word *seems* means? You couldn't possibly, you wouldn't/couldn't have spent spent 10 min writing your delusion, right. Dude really, have you considered posting sober or maybe trying meds?

Wow, you might really consider another career, you make a lousy judge.

4E is pretty much bullshit.. its ok, but basically like a card game rather than a RPG

i mean - "healing surges"??? fuckin come on

Dev, this is why you shouldn't trust Wiki The 4th edition Players Handbook came out in March 2008, the DMG hit in April and the MM in May. Likely what hit in June was the boxed set

Uh, I don't know why you think this, but I distinctly recall them being released all at the same time during Summer. Publishing dates on Amazon.com all say June 6th, 2008

I've ran every edition of D&D clear back to Chainmail.

D&D 4th is World of Warcraft D20.

The designers of 4th ed have said as much. Say what you want, but the mechanics are similar. I knew it when I looked around at my players when I tried to run 4th ed and they had macro bars lined up in front of them (D&D Power Cards to keep track of your neat-0 powerz).

A de-emphasis on skills, emphasis on cooldown-related powers, the whole thing reeks of WoW's combat mechanics.

Apparently, you have forgotten that when D&D first came out it had no skills, just class abilities, so there is no used citing the older versions and decrying the de-emphasis of skills.

As I recall, the first official skills were added late in the development cycle of 2nd Edition.

It seems Hasbro is right, atari didn't even mention the main point of the case.

You're judging the entire merit of the lawsuit based on one generic PR release that doesn't go into specifics because it's a case in litigation?

Christ please tell me you've never served on a jury. You have a frightening train of logic.

There may be merit to Hasbro's accusations, but we've only seen an accusation and a generic response. No evidence has been issued, and no legal arguments have been made yet. Legally, Hasbro has to prove that it's business with the D&D product line was tangibly harmed by letting a "competitor" develop a completely separate medium of entertainment under a sub-license. If the contract says "Companies X, Y, and Z can't ever develop under license a D&D product" then it's pretty airtight, but I doubt that is the case, as even the dumbest of corporations rarely go specifically against the word of a written contract. That puts it under the interpretation of contract law.

I hate Hasbro and Atari pretty equally. I'm going to hold off on judgment until I hear more facts.

In honesty D&D 4.0 may 'look' like WoW in some ways, it plays absolutely nothing like it. So we really do need a D&D 4e game that actually mirrors 4e D&D (not some console B title that is nothing like actual D&D.)

I've ran every edition of D&D clear back to Chainmail.

D&D 4th is World of Warcraft D20.

The designers of 4th ed have said as much. Say what you want, but the mechanics are similar. I knew it when I looked around at my players when I tried to run 4th ed and they had macro bars lined up in front of them (D&D Power Cards to keep track of your neat-0 powerz).

A de-emphasis on skills, emphasis on cooldown-related powers, the whole thing reeks of WoW's combat mechanics.

I'll defend 3rd edition somewhat. It made the game easier to play, and placed a larger emphasis on skills. Don't get me wrong, I don't *mind* 4th edition, but it's not D&D. It's a thinly veiled tabletop WoW game. Everyone I've ever met who has played it has come to the same conclusion without prompting from me.

Well since WoW (and just about every other MMOG) is based almost entirely on D&D itself, it's just a cycle.

You kind of miss what he was saying. 4th Edition D&D removed everything that made D&D unique...what little there was of it, anyway.

They replaced the old spell memorization system with a cooldown period for Christ's sake. The game reeks of mainstreaming.

Backfired too. They tried to dumb it down with 3rd edition and market it to the average joe. Didn't work then, didn't work now.

I wonder if Hasbro is flipping out because it's been nearly 2 years since 4th edition D&D came out and not a single 4e D&D game has been released or even hinted at.

Everyone is playing Dragon Age now. We've moved on. The only company capable of doing a halfway decent D&D game is Bioware. I'd say Black Isle/Obsidian, but lately they haven't been doing too well.

This comment was edited on Dec 18, 2009, 01:06.

It seems Hasbro is right, atari didn't even mention the main point of the case.

How about shifting to individual licenses and then if a too good to be true all-in-one package appears, then can consider it. Then a company like Obsidian could cut cost of middle man, possibly publishing through Steam or some such.

There already is a game that takes 4th ed's mechanics and runs with it.

It's called World of Warcraft.

Hasbro already said they made the game play more like WOW to bring in new blood.

Well since WoW (and just about every other MMOG) is based almost entirely on D&D itself, it's just a cycle.

In honesty D&D 4.0 may 'look' like WoW in some ways, it plays absolutely nothing like it. So we really do need a D&D 4e game that actually mirrors 4e D&D (not some console B title that is nothing like actual D&D.)


Dev, this is why you shouldn't trust Wiki The 4th edition Players Handbook came out in March 2008, the DMG hit in April and the MM in May. Likely what hit in June was the boxed set.

This comment was edited on Dec 17, 2009, 23:53.

hmmm... so someone should volunteer to go to ravenloft and summon all the lawyers there?

Lawyers are extraplanar creatures and as such are susceptible to dismissal and banishment.

Fion:
Per wiki:
"the initial three core books were released June 6, 2008."
about 1.5 years. I suppose if you are rounding 1.5 up then it is 2 years.

Apparently "Charm Lawyer" didn't work...

About the only thing that works on a lawyer is 'dispel evil'.

I wonder if Hasbro is flipping out because it's been nearly 2 years since 4th edition D&D came out and not a single 4e D&D game has been released or even hinted at.

There already is a game that takes 4th ed's mechanics and runs with it.

It's called World of Warcraft.

Hasbro already said they made the game play more like WOW to bring in new blood.

Apparently "Charm Lawyer" didn't work...

As long as they don't give the rights to EA I don't care where they go, as long as they go somewhere.

I wonder if Hasbro is flipping out because it's been nearly 2 years since 4th edition D&D came out and not a single 4e D&D game has been released or even hinted at.

A simple "Fuck you Hasbro" would've suffice.