Borderlands' Firm Street Dates

Though some folks have been able to purchase Borderlands early, 2K Games confirms that the game's DRM will not unlock until next week's scheduled release dates for Gearbox's role-playing shooter (thanks nin via IGN). The 2K Forums have a comment from 2K community manager 2K Elizabeth explaining the situation:
Yesterday we learned that a fraction of the PC copies of Borderlands were accidentally sold to consumers in some countries but that gamers could not activate their copies yet. Since we learned of this problem, we have been looking into the issue to find the best possible solution for everyone.

I'm going to be completely honest with you guys right now. It is not possible for us to move the planned release date of the game forward. We could not possibly get the games into stores worldwide and out for digital distribution any earlier than planned. Less than 1% of all copies were sold, and if we unlocked the game today, illegal versions would most likely appear on torrents by the evening. I am sure all of you want our PC launch to be as successful as possible, and we simply won't be able to manage that any earlier than already planned.

I want to apologize for those of you who have gotten the game ahead of our release date, and ask for your patience and understanding. The game will be ready in the US and Canada at midnight eastern standard time on Monday, October 26th, and internationally by Friday, October 30th.
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178 Replies. 9 pages. Viewing page 4.
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118.
 
Re:
Oct 25, 2009, 17:44
Re: Oct 25, 2009, 17:44
Oct 25, 2009, 17:44
 
Btw, it is out now for download thanks to Reloaded. So the DRM sure worked then... ahem

Seriously? I'm always amazed at the almost sci-fi skills of the crackers to do this kind of thing. It's like all those cheesy movies and tv shows where a guy sits down at a workstation and 2 minutes later "I'm in". Except they really can do it.

Crazy.
117.
 
Re: Borderlands Dates
Oct 25, 2009, 17:43
Re: Borderlands Dates Oct 25, 2009, 17:43
Oct 25, 2009, 17:43
 
PC Warez version is out - whole 5 days before EU release date- whole day before american release (Unlock) date.

Hilarious

As usual, pirates get the superior product - So what was the point of holding steadfast on release dates?
Avatar 54727
116.
 
Re:
Oct 25, 2009, 17:42
Re: Oct 25, 2009, 17:42
Oct 25, 2009, 17:42
 
Alright, what are the damages?
Quick, c'mon, what are the damages?
What, there are none? Alright, most likely summary judgment

A summary judgment has nothing to do with the amount awarded.

As for the damages, those could be considerable if 2k was shown to have deliberately misled their customers about the product they were selling. I’d like to point out that you appear to have missed the words “if” and “knowingly” in the original post. Please note the words “could be” and “known” as laid out in this paragraph. This is the concept of intent, which would be either an aggravating or mitigating fact in our hypothetical lawsuit.

Also, keep in mind that our hypothetical lawsuits could be brought by the private citizens, governments, or both. In this case of the government, consumer protection laws and their penalties can be pretty severe against violators. While I agree with others on this thread that any type of lawsuit are slim possibilities, it could happen, and in the context of aggravating intent, could be financial painful for 2k.

You can't generalize about EULAs. Some US courts are cool with them. Some US courts aren't cool with them. They all have shot some down and upheld some. They've also all avoided precedent by claiming that their rulings are specific to the EULA at hand.

Leaving aside the fact that your first sentence is immediately contracted by your next set of statements (i.e., broad generalizations), I would disagree that “They've also all avoided precedent by claiming that their rulings are specific to the EULA at hand.” I am unaware of any ruling to do with EULA’s in which the judge qualified his judgment with such a statement, or inference of such a concept. In contract cases, it is extremely rare for a judge to do this. Law is not made for individuals, but for society as a whole, and rulings tend to follow this fundamental concept.

But you'd better believe just about any EULA can be upheld in part so long as its reasonable. Just about any EULA can be shot down in part if it is not reasonable.
Contracts which are void in part, can be declared void ab initio ie. Which, if you are involved in the “law” (as you put it), you should know, as has been contract law 101 for well over a hundred years.

There is also (legal) school of thought that has argued the EULA is an unconscionable contract as a whole as you are not presented with the contract until after the purchase and in such a manner as to make it impossible to recover your investment. Unconscionable contracts, by law, are completely void. This argument is still working its way through the court system.

Armchair attorneys need to cool it in this thread
J'accuse!


115.
 
Re: Borderlands Dates
Oct 25, 2009, 17:39
Re: Borderlands Dates Oct 25, 2009, 17:39
Oct 25, 2009, 17:39
 
Seems the steadfast PC delay held off the leaked version about 4 days out of the planned 7. If there was a demo this long thread wouldn't exist.
114.
 
Re: Borderlands Dates
Oct 25, 2009, 17:38
Re: Borderlands Dates Oct 25, 2009, 17:38
Oct 25, 2009, 17:38
 
Edit: I just thought of something... I wonder how many european pre-orders will be canceled by people getting pirate copy since they have to wait yet another week. 2k should worldwide unlock at midnight tonight if they were smart.

Thank you.

I said the same thing earlier. Not only is their PC delay to prevent cannibalization of the console version utter BS but they can't even follow their own twisted logic. They will ABSOLUTELY lose sales because of a staggered US vs. International release date.

Then the dumb bastards will sit back in the boardroom as the sell through figures roll in and tsk tsk all the pirating that going on.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
"Both the “left” and the “right” pretend they have the answer, but they are mere flippers on the same thalidomide baby, and the truth is that neither side has a clue."

- Jim Goad
Avatar 10137
113.
 
Re: Borderlands Dates
Oct 25, 2009, 17:15
Dev
Re: Borderlands Dates Oct 25, 2009, 17:15
Oct 25, 2009, 17:15
Dev
 
LFace:
LOL I wonder what happened to the "there's no exe on the disc" thats apparently wrong. All that "omg we can't unlock early because of piracy" is now moot. Piracy happened even with the securom seal. Once again, another example of DRM screwing legit customers.

Despite the fact I pre-ordered and paid for a legit version, I'm tempted to go play it early to get a taste for it. Heck, I bet the saves would even be transferrable.

Edit: I just thought of something... I wonder how many european pre-orders will be canceled by people getting pirate copy since they have to wait yet another week. 2k should worldwide unlock at midnight tonight if they were smart.

This comment was edited on Oct 25, 2009, 17:23.
112.
 
Re: Borderlands Dates
Oct 25, 2009, 17:13
Dev
Re: Borderlands Dates Oct 25, 2009, 17:13
Oct 25, 2009, 17:13
Dev
 
xXBatmanXx:
Steam time is pacific (I belive thats where valve is located). So its noon pacific time. Right now it says for me "22 hours" which is noon pacific time. 3pm eastern (I think you calculated 4pm because of the way steam rounds the hours left).
111.
 
Re:
Oct 25, 2009, 17:13
Re: Oct 25, 2009, 17:13
Oct 25, 2009, 17:13
 
Btw, it is out now for download thanks to Reloaded. So the DRM sure worked then... ahem.
110.
 
Re:
Oct 25, 2009, 17:05
Re: Oct 25, 2009, 17:05
Oct 25, 2009, 17:05
 
JohnnyRotten, your entire argument was wasted breath because it's all based on 2K selling a defective product which they did not. The retailer broke the release date. Why can't people get that through their heads?

I'll just quote Dev's post to refute the "it was just the retailers argument":

According to this TV ad thats on TV right now, the game is "AVAILABLE NOW" on PC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1omVnfGVYw

Note the source of the ad, its from the OFFICIAL 2k Games youtube channel uploaded on the 20th. There is NO separate date advertised for PC version. All versions (xbox 360, PS3, PC) are shown and advertised "AVAILABLE NOW" (the caps are even in the ad)
Screenshot

official borderlands facebook page:
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Official-Borderlands-Page/104080139080
On the left it says:
"Coming Oct. 20 to PS3, 360, and PC platforms!"
Screenshot

http://www.borderlandsthegame.com/
Official game page, says at top "IN STORES NOW" and if you click "buy now" at menu on left, it says "AVAILABLE NOW" showing the PC version.
Screenshot
109.
 
Re:
Oct 25, 2009, 16:39
Re: Oct 25, 2009, 16:39
Oct 25, 2009, 16:39
 
Trivial is a subjective term. It is also not a legal term. Trivial for one can be shown not to be trivial when in the context of thousands. If 2k could be shown through public statements and internal documents to have knowingly sold and promoted a defective product (albeit temporarily), then I believe the possibility exists for a class action. The courts frown on theft, regardless of the amount stolen.

Alright, what are the damages?
Quick, c'mon, what are the damages?
What, there are none? Alright, most likely summary judgment.


Armchair attorneys need to cool it in this thread. For one, getting on this whole "class action" nonsense, who is going to pay the legal fees for it? No attorney will take on this "lawsuit," as the damages are so small that they'll never make back their time. So will some fan pay the attorneys fees to bring this to court? Of course not.

As for EULAs, jesus, the discussion here is mind numbing. You can't generalize about EULAs. Some US courts are cool with them. Some US courts aren't cool with them. They all have shot some down and upheld some. They've also all avoided precedent by claiming that their rulings are specific to the EULA at hand. But you'd better believe just about any EULA can be upheld in part so long as its reasonable. Just about any EULA can be shot down in part if it is not reasonable. I don't pretend this is an area of expertise of mine - I've done some EULA work but I've long since given up the law. Bottom line, though, is that you should just assume that, if you agree to something, you're probably going to be held to it unless you have a good reason not to be. If a EULA makes you agree to not reverse engineer something and you do, sorry, you're screwed. If a EULA makes you agree to offer your first born son to Valve, well, you're probably in the clear.
108.
 
Re: Borderlands Dates
Oct 25, 2009, 16:19
Re: Borderlands Dates Oct 25, 2009, 16:19
Oct 25, 2009, 16:19
 
Steam website says "23 hours" which would be 4pm EST.
107.
 
Re: Borderlands Dates
Oct 25, 2009, 16:03
Dev
Re: Borderlands Dates Oct 25, 2009, 16:03
Oct 25, 2009, 16:03
Dev
 
Flatline:
Actually purchasing something thats on the shelves that the store has for sale IS legitimate.

Its not the customers fault that the retailer stocked the shelves early after calling up thier 2k rep and asking when they should stock the PC and the rep says no need to wait.

If its such a big deal to the publisher they need to start enforcing the street dates more and levying bigger fines.

BTW, if its not legitimate you are essentially arguing that since a legitimate store put up "stolen goods" on the shelves that its the customers fault for purchasing them even though there was no indication of it being such, and even advertising such as TV indicating it was ok.
106.
 
Re: Borderlands' Firm Street Dates
Oct 25, 2009, 15:57
Re: Borderlands' Firm Street Dates Oct 25, 2009, 15:57
Oct 25, 2009, 15:57
 

The DRM's job is to prevent piracy, not keep people who legitimately bought the game from using it. Right?

Technically, purchasing something that had broken the street date isn't "legitimate", advertising issues aside.

The DRM was specifically meant to prevent people from playing the game before launch. It's doing it's job. It was designed not just with hackers in mind, but with retailers who broke the street date.

I don't see the issue. But then again the wharrgarble from gamers has always been strong. Every slight or problem is a deep, moral injustice and insult to the gamer's very soul and mother.
105.
 
Re: Borderlands' Firm Dates
Oct 25, 2009, 15:35
Dev
Re: Borderlands' Firm Dates Oct 25, 2009, 15:35
Oct 25, 2009, 15:35
Dev
 
StingingVelvet:
Because,
a) Customers who are targeted by the TV ad don't tend to know exact release dates, they go by the ad that say available now. They go to the store and the store has it for sale on the shelves. They take it home and it doesn't work. Where in that chain did they find out its not released yet? Once its purchased, opened, unreturnable, and the securom prompt is staring them in the face.

b) I get peeved by companies that break the law, which false advertising is.
104.
 
Re:
Oct 25, 2009, 15:31
Re: Oct 25, 2009, 15:31
Oct 25, 2009, 15:31
 
JohnnyRotten, your entire argument was wasted breath because it's all based on 2K selling a defective product which they did not. The retailer broke the release date. Why can't people get that through their heads?
103.
 
Re: Borderlands' Firm Dates
Oct 25, 2009, 15:02
Re: Borderlands' Firm Dates Oct 25, 2009, 15:02
Oct 25, 2009, 15:02
 
StingingVelvet:
Ah so advertising that the PC version is availible (on TV and on the web) earlier when its not, and also 2k retail store reps telling stores they can sell PC versions early is ok then? Since its "practically nothing"
Sounds more like they screwed the pooch than planned a release date.

Yeah, they screwed it. I don't mean to argue otherwise. My point was: why are people so irate about it?
Avatar 54622
102.
 
Re:
Oct 25, 2009, 14:20
Re: Oct 25, 2009, 14:20
Oct 25, 2009, 14:20
 
Aspects of EULA's have been held up in court many times now. You'd be laughed at for taking something to court as trivial as this, especially when it's not beyond the rights of the companies to protect their products and the release date. Only people at fault here are the retailers.

Trivial is a subjective term. It is also not a legal term. Trivial for one can be shown not to be trivial when in the context of thousands. If 2k could be shown through public statements and internal documents to have knowingly sold and promoted a defective product (albeit temporarily), then I believe the possibility exists for a class action. The courts frown on theft, regardless of the amount stolen.

The EULA as a whole or aspects of it has certainly not “been held up in court many times”. I would think the best one could say about the legal enforceability of the EULA is that is completely up in the air. Different courts have ruled differently about the EULA, and no legal precedent yet exists for the enforcement or applicability of the EULA, in whole, or in part at this time. The most interesting case currently before the courts (IMHO) is AutoCAD vs. Vernor, which may finally set the bar.

I also am unaware of any legal precedent of software corporations to “to protect their products and the release date” per se. There are, however, significant amounts of consumer law to protect against the misrepresentation of product performance.

IMHO, there seems to be a constant misperception on these forums that software companies, publishers, and distributers get to have a different (and self defined) rule set with their products at first sale, second sale, etc. This is a place where there IS a large amount of legal precedent, which if I may boil down to a pithy phrase: They don’t.

This comment was edited on Oct 25, 2009, 14:24.
101.
 
Re: Borderlands' Firm Dates
Oct 25, 2009, 14:16
Dev
Re: Borderlands' Firm Dates Oct 25, 2009, 14:16
Oct 25, 2009, 14:16
Dev
 
StingingVelvet:
Ah so advertising that the PC version is availible (on TV and on the web) earlier when its not, and also 2k retail store reps telling stores they can sell PC versions early is ok then? Since its "practically nothing"
Sounds more like they screwed the pooch than planned a release date.

This comment was edited on Oct 25, 2009, 14:17.
100.
 
Re: Borderlands' Firm Dates
Oct 25, 2009, 13:50
Re: Borderlands' Firm Dates Oct 25, 2009, 13:50
Oct 25, 2009, 13:50
 
Wow, a 100 comments on this BS?

Companies plan release dates. As technology allows them to do so, they will enforce release dates. You either accept it and realize it is no big deal or you scream and yell about it and get yourself all worked up over practically nothing.
Avatar 54622
99.
 
Re: Borderlands' Firm Dates
Oct 25, 2009, 13:40
nin
99.
Re: Borderlands' Firm Dates Oct 25, 2009, 13:40
Oct 25, 2009, 13:40
nin
 
It might not be a big deal, but that difference in availability might be the difference between someone deciding to go with the retail version or with the the Steam version.

I believe the Steam version has the lest amount of BS DRM, though.


I'll be going with Torchlight, myself.

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