complaining about how other people shouldn't be allowed to enjoy Call of Duty

Yeah, that's totally what I said.



I agree with almost your entire post. You're arguing against something I've never said. I'm simply saying that a job and a family is not a valid excuse for wanting games to be shorter. There's plenty of busy people who also prefer their games to last longer. It's a matter of personal preference, a statement I'm sure you'll agree with.

And I'm not going to concede that people who initially and continually enjoy a game only to be turned off by it's length aren't doing so because of a short attention span.

I know because I can use myself as an example... I love the LoTR books, but god are they long, and everytime I start reading them I eventually stop because of the length. Not because I'm too busy and not because I dislike them.

What if the last Harry Potter book in the series was only 100 pages? Don't be upset previous fans, this is not intended for you, it's intended for married adults with no time to read. You should be happy because it's a great 100 pages!

Since when has Call of Duty been a 30 hour franchise? The analogy is flawed because it doesn't even really apply to the situation, I was just trying to give it to you in terms you might understand.

I want a good long game, not a bad long game. No one is arguing for bad long games.

So buy one? This product isn't intended for you, it's never been about making a long game. I am not even a fan of this game but I can't slog it for not being what I want when the authors never had that intention in the first place.

Once again, since you don't seem to understand this, you can play a game for a few hours a day. You don't have to beat it within the week.

Once again, you don't seem to understand the difference between time and attention span. The former is a factor that can affect the latter, they are not intrinsically linked though. Attention span problems are not caused by time alone in the first place. I can play something for 2 hours or 20 hours and still not want to play it anymore.

If you play for a few hours a day and then decided, hey I don't want to play this game anymore it's too long, you either dislike the game or you have a short attention span. Neither of those reasons are because you have a job and/or a wife. Thus "I'm so sick of the 'old man with a job' argument."

Your argument seems to be "i am sick of hearing this" as opposed to having any real basis in reality. When people say they are ok playing shorter games due to time demands in real life, that has nothing to do with attention span. Zero. You seem to ignore how stretching out an experience can strain the human memory as opposed it's short term attention span. If you were to recall a movie right after you saw it, chances are it will be more fresh in your mind and you will be able to easily remember events. If you try a year from now it will be considerably more muddled. The story in most games is a large part of the gameplay, asking people to play 2 hours every weekend or whatever for a year is going to ruin a lot of games for them.

Now before you come back with "well they arent intended for them then just like you said!", the game's authors will determine their product length, not forum dudes who just want every game to be 60 hours long. So if game makers want to make shorter games because it suits the majority of the industry then theres nothing wrong with that. There's something to be said for making a quality experience as opposed to simply a long one anyways. Making "good long games" costs a shitload of money and industry budgets are already sky high by the way.

Put more simply, go play Dragon Age instead of complaining about how other people shouldn't be allowed to enjoy Call of Duty if they want to because gosh they're all just stupid people who have no attention span!

They are simply unaffected by them because they aren't the intended market for whatever reason.

What if the last Harry Potter book in the series was only 100 pages? Don't be upset previous fans, this is not intended for you, it's intended for married adults with no time to read. You should be happy because it's a great 100 pages!

So criticisms of length are silly because a 6 hour game that is well crafted can be just as valuable as a tedious 50 hour experience. ... The person who likes 6 hour games could make the point that attention span has nothing to do with 50 hour repetitive gameplay that purposely spreads out the storyline in an attempt to make a shallow experience feel more epic.

I want a good long game, not a bad long game. No one is arguing for bad long games.


Once again, since you don't seem to understand this, you can play a game for a few hours a day. You don't have to beat it within the week. If you play for a few hours a day and then decided, hey I don't want to play this game anymore it's too long, you either dislike the game or you have a short attention span. Neither of those reasons are because you have a job and/or a wife. Thus "I'm so sick of the 'old man with a job' argument."

Do you think extra busy people should be clamoring for short books too? No! Use a damn book mark. Once again, as Jerykk pointed out, it's just a matter of attention span.

Again, attention span has nothing to do with there only being 24 hours in a day. Most of us will sleep 6-8 hours and go to work/school for another 8. That leaves 8 hours for leisure activities, a good hour or two will be taken up cooking/showering/etc. So an average human being without anything social to do in a night will have roughly 4-6 hours to themselves. People play long games and people play short games, people also do the same with books. The difference is that most people who read 1000 page fantasy books don't get upset at the existence of sub-300 page books. They are simply unaffected by them because they aren't the intended market for whatever reason.

So criticisms of length are silly because a 6 hour game that is well crafted can be just as valuable as a tedious 50 hour experience. Attention span really has nothing to do with it beyond some stupid attempt at a slight to people who don't/wont/cant play the 50 hour game. The person who likes 6 hour games could make the point that attention span has nothing to do with 50 hour repetitive gameplay that purposely spreads out the storyline in an attempt to make a shallow experience feel more epic.

This comment was edited on Oct 26, 2009, 08:49.

I'd rather spend time with my wife than a video game for hours.

SICKO!

While I don't have a wife, I have graduated from college and I do work 50 hours a week. I don't have as much time to play games as I did before. But it's not going to make me bitch about the length of games in general. As Jerykk pointed out, you can save the damn game.

So to be more clear, what I meant by: "I'm so sick of the 'old man with a job' argument." Is that it has nothing to do with how long a game is. If you want to play a long game nothing is stopping you but your own preferences.

Do you think extra busy people should be clamoring for short books too? No! Use a damn book mark. Once again, as Jerykk pointed out, it's just a matter of attention span.

It's frustrating because the hardcore gamer bitches about the six hour game when it's not intended for him and the casual gamer whines about 60 hour games when they aren't intended for him either.

Verno is 100% correct. After getting married my game time is a lot less than what it used to be. Of course much of that is choice. I'd rather spend time with my wife than a video game for hours.

I'm so sick of the "old man with a job" argument.

Yeah I used to be sick of this argument too. Then I got a girlfriend. Then I graduated from college. Then I got a job. Then we had a kid. Then etc etc etc. Trust me, one day you'll get it. Some people are bitchy about it is really the problem, just because you don't have the time doesn't mean someone else shouldn't be able to blow 20 hours on a game if they want. That's the better argument anyways.

Gaming in general has shifted to be a more casual, family friendly activity than it used to be. It's not hardcore gamers fault because he wants 30 hour games and it's not Mister Dad's fault for having three kids, a wife and a mortgage. Publishers want games to appeal to a broader audience, they want to reach more people and make more money. That means shorter games. Call of Duty has always been about tight execution, not lengthy campaigns anyways.

some rambling about attention span

Attention span has nothing to do with there being a finite amount of hours in the day to allocate to various activities.

Something tells me you don't have a high paying, time consuming job.

You assume anyone who disagrees with your opinion doesn't work as hard or make as much money as you?

Wow. Impressive.

Pomposity, I mean.


-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist

I'm not sure the length of a game matters so much as the quality. The problem with COD SP is it's almost all scripting. At least in HL2 the AI was pretty intense and made you think. COD games you just have to follow the proper path like a rat in a maze.

Fine lets say it's 6 hours of single player enjoyment, now how many hours of multiplayer will you get out of it? I played through MW1's Single player game twice. After that I spent the rest of my time in multiplayer and MW2 is going to have co-op levels as well.

The job isn't the biggest obstacle to gaming, the wife is.

I'm so sick of the "old man with a job" argument.

Yeah, it's pretty weak. There's no time limit to playing games. You don't have to beat a game within a week. If you want, you can take a month. Maybe even a year. You can play multiple games at the same time too. The truth is, it's not about free time, it's about attention span. People like to make excuses for their shorter attention spans by claiming that they have no free time. Really, though, that's just a load of crap.

I'm so sick of the "old man with a job" argument.

So now that I'm older and on my own, I'm supposed to piss my money away because I don't have time to enjoy it?

No, now you don't want to piss your money away on games that you will never finish and never get to see the ending to.

The only necessary defense: Games used to be a lot longer.

Yes, and games used to consist of a bunch of levels lined end to end as you went on a key hunt. What changed? Engrossing cinematic scripted gameplay. If you want old school style of FPS play, go pick up Serious Sam.s{

This comment was edited on Oct 20, 2009, 22:20.

The only necessary defense: Games used to be a lot longer.
Max Payne 2 was the first recent game with a criminal length, and now pretty much everything has followed suit.

Yup, and back in your day, when you lived with your parents and went to school, you had more time than money.

So now that I'm older and on my own, I'm supposed to piss my money away because I don't have time to enjoy it? Who would even make such a senseless argument? Either a fool or a game developer trying to sell someone a too short game at premium price.

" I would much rather have a great shorter game, then some long & drawn out boring 20 hour game."


Something tells me you don't pay for these games yourself.

If you did you would value your dollar more.

Something tells me you don't have a high paying, time consuming job.

If you did, you would value your time more.

Do you want to know what else irritates me nowadays? These short novels they keep trying to push on us. Back in my day, novels were at least 1500 pages long. None of this 300 page crap. They are trying to skimp on us. Hey, if I pay my $25 for a hardcover, I better get at least 20 hours of words.

The last game was 6 hours and it sold like mad, so whats their insentive to make the game longer? Personally I wont touch it, got sucked into the last one, but it will sell like mad again and so they will continue to shovel it out. Sign of the times I guess, short attention spans and no money sense. Fortunatly there are still companys out there who will spend 3-4 years to give us a great experience.

Funny how the industry right now reminds me alot about how the video game business was run back in the Atari heydays. Video game industry was big, it was making a killing, and then they got greedy, and pushed for even greater profits. I can see it now because I'm old skool, machines were giving less game time for more money, home games were getting less and less dev time, but the consumer can only be pushed so far, then its too late, then its crash and burn time, and oh boy did the industry burn.

History is a lesson for us here and now to not repeat mistakes already made and paid for, but I seriously doubt the corperates will change, there vision only extends to the next quarterly report.