More on id and Linux

About a month ago we saw comments from John Carmack indicating that Linux versions of RAGE and the new DOOM game were up in the air, as the id technical director said: "There are no firm plans for linux ports of the idTech 5 titles, but it certainly isn’t off the table." Now a later email exchange with Mr. Carmack posted to the Ubuntu Forums (thanks Ant and LinuxGames) indicates that the chances they will port their Tech5 titles to Linux are nearing ever-closer to the edge of that table, with a later exchange repeating his thinking that it "probably wouldn't be all that bad to get it running on the nvidia binary drivers, but the chance of it working correctly and acceptably anywhere else would be small." Here's his overview of the situation:
The PC and Mac versions are still OpenGL 2.x.

We are not currently scheduling native linux ports. It isn't out of the question, but I don't think we will be able to justify the work. If there are hundreds of thousands of linux users playing Quake Live when we are done with Rage, that would certainly influence our decision...
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45.
 
Re: More on id and Linux
Aug 30, 2009, 15:12
45.
Re: More on id and Linux Aug 30, 2009, 15:12
Aug 30, 2009, 15:12
 
All of this dissonant screeching at each other has so much to do with the original relevant topic - oh, fuck it.
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44.
 
Re: More on id and Linux
Aug 27, 2009, 14:59
44.
Re: More on id and Linux Aug 27, 2009, 14:59
Aug 27, 2009, 14:59
 
Do you seriously keep a closet full of 7+ year old equipment? Really and truly?

I have 20 year old equipment in my garage, my friend. There isn't a whole lot of it, but it's all still in quality condition and works. It's kind of like keeping old turntables or musical equipment - it's old but I can't see much sense in getting rid of it either.
43.
 
Re: More on id and Linux
Aug 25, 2009, 15:27
Verno
 
43.
Re: More on id and Linux Aug 25, 2009, 15:27
Aug 25, 2009, 15:27
 Verno
 
Why is it all the Windows zealots react with such violent attacks and arrogance when someone merely mentions Linux?

Violence? Yeah everyone is just goin nuts up in this piece, beatin on eachother and gunning folk down like madmen. Arrogance? Yes, something the open source community knows nothing about Rolleyes

M-I-R-R-O-R
Playing: Risk of Rain 2, Jedi Fallen Order, Last of Us II
Watching: Tenet, Peninsula, The Pale Door
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42.
 
Re: More on id and Linux
Aug 24, 2009, 18:10
42.
Re: More on id and Linux Aug 24, 2009, 18:10
Aug 24, 2009, 18:10
 
Do you seriously keep a closet full of 7+ year old equipment? Really and truly?

If a computer works, I rarely throw it away if it can still be made serviceable in the modern era... And some of the more svelte Linux distros work nicely. Obviously I'm not talking computers with 5 inch drives and 10 meg hard drives, but anything Pentium class or above? Keeping it. And old computer makes a dandy kiosk display for an exhibit, a web portal in a bedroom, a starting computer for a child, a backup computer if a buddy's system crashes, a simple media player, all sorts of fun and useful things.
41.
 
Re: More on id and Linux
Aug 24, 2009, 17:23
Beamer
 
41.
Re: More on id and Linux Aug 24, 2009, 17:23
Aug 24, 2009, 17:23
 Beamer
 
What kind of idiot doesn't have MSFT in their portfolio?

Anyway, calling Linux "popular" or "quality" is as wrong as saying Windows isn't stable.
40.
 
Re: More on id and Linux
Aug 24, 2009, 16:09
40.
Re: More on id and Linux Aug 24, 2009, 16:09
Aug 24, 2009, 16:09
 
Why is it all the Windows zealots react with such violent attacks and arrogance when someone merely mentions Linux?

It's as if all of you are Microsoft stock holders. Are you?

If you're a stock holder I can understand why you'd want to spread misinformation and put down your competitor who gives away his product that your company charges a lot of money for.

I found the post about the computer that ONLY uses 18% of resources with 8 Gigabytes of RAM to be hilarious. Everyone has 8 GB of RAM.

Only 18% with nothing running? Wow, that is amazing.

My computer uses 280 MB of RAM with a web browser, email client, several other programs AND a 3D accelerated desktop running.

Linux exists as a popular alternative because Microsoft doesn't spend the time to make a quality product. They don't spend the time, because YOU their consumer do NOT demand quality and because it cuts in to their profits. Instead, you defend them. Why don't you spend some of your negative energy towards asking them to make more secure products? Ask them to make more stable products. Ask them to make true multi-user products. Ask them to blow away free alternatives built by volunteers that are clones of something that has existed for 40 years!

Spend some energy trying alternatives. You might even try a Mac if you can afford one. If consumers didn't settle for crap, they wouldn't be stuck with it.
39.
 
Re: More on id and Linux
Aug 24, 2009, 14:14
39.
Re: More on id and Linux Aug 24, 2009, 14:14
Aug 24, 2009, 14:14
 
But I can install Linux on seven year old laptop, and it still works fine. If you go for some of the specifically light-weight distros, Linux will work on some truly ancient hardware, by modern standards. And still provide you a modern, usable interface, with a modern web browser, media codecs, etc.

Do you seriously keep a closet full of 7+ year old equipment? Really and truly?

Technically, I could drop a lawnmower engine in to a 1984 Ford Escort and make it functional too. That doesn't mean, however, that's genuinely functional for every purpose a user might use.

I did not say that you specifically said that it was the year of the Linux desktop. However, that's all we've been hearing out of the Linux camp for years. It's like a mildly retarded mechanic repeating that some day a Pinto is going outrun a Ferrari. Sure, under conditions where that Pinto has been reworked with a near infinite budget, it just might. However, stock versus stock, it's nothing special.

Right now, Linux is the Pinto. Maybe someday it'll grow up in to a Maverick or Grand Marquis but not now.

Dante, to address you:

I assume this is a 64bit machine running Windows 7 64bit ?

Yes, of course it is. You already know the limitations of the 32 bit side so let's not bait here.

Silly me, I thought the average memory on a average desktop PC in an average home was 1gb max. I'd be worried if my win7 was using over 1gb of ram doing nothing, my desktop at work is 7win and it's only got 512mb ( because it's a basic office PC ) and it's only using 210mb idle.

You are very silly indeed if that is your genuine belief. 2GB is now the average install base with 4GB currently moving in to the mainline retail channels, or the "cheap seats" as we call them, for people who spend $300-400 on a box at Walmart.

As I said previously, if you're just absolutely insistent on digging your heels in to the ground and running that Pentium II 233 with 16MB of RAM as your day to day machine (which I highly doubt) then you're not really interested in gaming in the first place which is what this site is about, no?

How's the new version of Wolfenstein running for you sans emulator?

This comment was edited on Aug 24, 2009, 14:22.
"No matter where you go, there you are." Buckaroo Banzai

There are two types of computer users: Masochists and Linux users.

If you would like help or further details on a technical discussion we're having, email me at bnhelp (at sign) keepusiel.net . Pl
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38.
 
Re: More on id and Linux
Aug 24, 2009, 12:01
Prez
 
38.
Re: More on id and Linux Aug 24, 2009, 12:01
Aug 24, 2009, 12:01
 Prez
 
I for one would love a genuine competitor to Windows. But until Linux runs every new game out there, for me, it ain't it.
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
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37.
 
Re: More on id and Linux
Aug 24, 2009, 10:51
37.
Re: More on id and Linux Aug 24, 2009, 10:51
Aug 24, 2009, 10:51
 
People obviously use Windows for a variety of reasons, the applications being the driving force and the user interface close behind. I'm sure there are as many home users who could get by using Open Office as there are business users who need functions specific to Microsoft Office. Could and would don't really matter though, most people are very unwilling to change and even the slightest changes can upset the comfort level of users. It's a large part of the reason Vista failed - it changed just enough to disrupt that comfort level while not providing enough new functionality that users desired to keep people happy. That's also where Windows 7 succeeds ironically.

Thank you for agreeing with me My point was never, ever, that Linux is what everyone needs and we should all switch to it. It was just that for a lot of people, it does do everything they need, if they cared to try it. That was *it*.

The designer of the ribbon should be fired... God I hated helping people learn to use the same program all over again.
36.
 
Re: More on id and Linux
Aug 24, 2009, 10:49
36.
Re: More on id and Linux Aug 24, 2009, 10:49
Aug 24, 2009, 10:49
 
Considering the ammount of money that Microsoft pumps into development of its OS'es, I think its simply amazing that Linux can even compete with them. And it DOES compete.

I think it makes MS look really, really fucking retarded.
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35.
 
Re: More on id and Linux
Aug 24, 2009, 10:46
35.
Re: More on id and Linux Aug 24, 2009, 10:46
Aug 24, 2009, 10:46
 
And I accept that there are people who need functionality that Open Office doesn't provide. Again, for like the fifth time, see my original post where I admitted that.

Although I would ask, "Student of what?". As a student, I found Open Office sufficient from high school and on into college. After college, I've still yet to encounter a reason to switch.

I've never encountered a formatting problem, despite switching my work back and forth between my computers are the school's running Microsoft products.
34.
 
Re: More on id and Linux
Aug 24, 2009, 10:41
Beamer
 
34.
Re: More on id and Linux Aug 24, 2009, 10:41
Aug 24, 2009, 10:41
 Beamer
 
For example, do you need to run Microsoft Office? Or would Open Office do everything you need to do?


Clearly someone that doesn't depend on the application for a living.

If you're a student or in business you're a moron to use Open Office. And, if you need a spreadsheet, likely the most used Office component (by time, not by users), then you deserve to go bankrupt if you use anything other than Excel.

OpenOffice still has compatibility issues. And, in the case of spreadsheets, is still missing features beyond just sorely lacking in compatibility with add-ons.
Many universities and businesses have flat-out banned it, despite idiots thinking they're special and repeatedly trying to use it, because of compatibility issues. Have one associate send a file which opens improperly due to some Office-standard bit of formatting and you deserve the embarrassment you get.
33.
 
Re: More on id and Linux
Aug 24, 2009, 10:38
Verno
 
33.
Re: More on id and Linux Aug 24, 2009, 10:38
Aug 24, 2009, 10:38
 Verno
 
For example, do you need to run Microsoft Office? Or would Open Office do everything you need to do?

I'm not going to argue functionality because that just descends into endless anecdotes. People obviously use Windows for a variety of reasons, the applications being the driving force and the user interface close behind. I'm sure there are as many home users who could get by using Open Office as there are business users who need functions specific to Microsoft Office. Could and would don't really matter though, most people are very unwilling to change and even the slightest changes can upset the comfort level of users. It's a large part of the reason Vista failed - it changed just enough to disrupt that comfort level while not providing enough new functionality that users desired to keep people happy. That's also where Windows 7 succeeds ironically.
Playing: Risk of Rain 2, Jedi Fallen Order, Last of Us II
Watching: Tenet, Peninsula, The Pale Door
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32.
 
Re: More on id and Linux
Aug 24, 2009, 10:30
32.
Re: More on id and Linux Aug 24, 2009, 10:30
Aug 24, 2009, 10:30
 
Don't lay it all on Microsoft, the Linux user community is as much to blame as they are.

This I absolutely agree with. The linux community is often times its own worst enemy.

Uhh, like running Windows applications, games and so on? Yeah geez I bet not many

But do they need to run *those windows applications*, or do they need to run *an application that does that function*, is the point.

For example, do you need to run Microsoft Office? Or would Open Office do everything you need to do?
31.
 
Re: More on id and Linux
Aug 24, 2009, 10:27
Verno
 
31.
Re: More on id and Linux Aug 24, 2009, 10:27
Aug 24, 2009, 10:27
 Verno
 
Verno I think its you who is missing the point here. Obviously Linux will never become a major force in the desktop market, Microsoft has seen to that

Don't lay it all on Microsoft, the Linux user community is as much to blame as they are.

How many % of the desktop users out there use ANY of the features that are exclusive to Windows? My guess is not very many.

Uhh, like running Windows applications, games and so on? Yeah geez I bet not many Rolleyes
Playing: Risk of Rain 2, Jedi Fallen Order, Last of Us II
Watching: Tenet, Peninsula, The Pale Door
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30.
 
Re: More on id and Linux
Aug 24, 2009, 10:26
30.
Re: More on id and Linux Aug 24, 2009, 10:26
Aug 24, 2009, 10:26
 
It's not a sidetrack.

Windows is dominant, in large part, *because* of the crowd that could get by with a dumb terminal. The gaming market isn't the only thing Windows has going for it.

Right now, Linux is a very small segment of the market. Nobody cares about it. When and if that small segment grows, the amount of people who care about it and produce for it will grow too. One of the ways TO grow that segment of the market is to get the "dumb terminal" users using it.

To turn your own argument against you, the game industry on the mobile phone market is growing like wildfire right now, while arguably the PC game industry is languishing.

The masses have power simply by being the masses. It has nothing to do with how simple or complex their tastes are.
29.
 
Re: More on id and Linux
Aug 24, 2009, 10:25
29.
Re: More on id and Linux Aug 24, 2009, 10:25
Aug 24, 2009, 10:25
 
Verno I think its you who is missing the point here. Obviously Linux will never become a major force in the desktop market, Microsoft has seen to that.

How many % of the desktop users out there use ANY of the features that are exclusive to Windows? My guess is not very many.
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28.
 
Re: More on id and Linux
Aug 24, 2009, 10:21
28.
Re: More on id and Linux Aug 24, 2009, 10:21
Aug 24, 2009, 10:21
 
Linux has at least one big thing going for it. Its free.

I recently installed UBUNTU on my girlfriends PC, WindowsXP died on it for some reason.

That was probably one of the easiest installs I ever did. One click install. ON a LINUX!!!! OH THE HORROR!!!!

Everything just worked. The GUI is pretty intuitive, and for someone who doesnt really use the PC that much she was quite into it. Probably becuase the GUI looks a lot like Apple's (her sister has an ibook). She has everything she needs on it. It works with her Itunes, it has openoffice, and you can surf the net on it...Pretty cool for something thats free or am I missing some hidden showstopping horrible evil that lurks beneath??? Disguise
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27.
 
Re: More on id and Linux
Aug 24, 2009, 10:21
Verno
 
27.
Re: More on id and Linux Aug 24, 2009, 10:21
Aug 24, 2009, 10:21
 Verno
 
Ah yes. The old "It doesn't fit my argument, so you're lying" defense. Nice.

No, it's the "tailor made anecdotes to fit your POV" accusation, get it right

Yes, I *am* making, more or less, an argument for dumb terminals. For a lot of users, that's really all they need.

Thanks then this debate is truly over. Operating systems don't matter for shit if all people need is dumb terminals. It wouldn't matter if they were running ToasterOS or FreeBSD. They are not relevant to the topic nor are most even what an operating system really is. They do not represent users bringing Linux to the desktop, they represent people with simple enough tastes to run all of their computing tasks in a mobile phone. They have nothing to do with John Carmack, Linux or the future of operating systems. Thanks for needlessly sidetracking the topic!
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26.
 
Re: More on id and Linux
Aug 24, 2009, 10:17
26.
Re: More on id and Linux Aug 24, 2009, 10:17
Aug 24, 2009, 10:17
 
familiarity = comfort when it comes to computer users.

I agree with that, that was the biggest problem I found with Vista and Windows Server 2008, so many things have been moved or renamed or dumbed down. It certainly slowed me and the other tech guys down when we had to go hunting for things that on XP we'd do in seconds.
For the 'new' user I guess Vista/Win7 are easier. For any one with a few years of XP experience at a technical level it's a nightmare and training issue we could do without.
It's not like Vista actually gives me anything great and it needs more hardware to run it, that's why companies refused to upgrade, no benefits, big costs in hardware and some training.

Linux is also very different and of course there is a learning curve, but one of the great things is you can test it on any old PC and start learning it's interface for free, live boot cd's available for every distribution for free.
No one is trying to force you to change either, you're happy buying more hardware to run the same old OS with a slightly tweaked UI then so be it. MS continue to produce crap because no one is in a position to challenge them.
They've produced one of the worst browsers of all time and it still has market share because people as a group are sheep.
Even IE8 is slower than all the competition, less features and no more secure. MS win in the end because of market share. What pisses me off is people defend them for making crap software. Until that stop MS will still feed you shit and you'll still pay for it.
The few of us stick with the free software and yes we struggle to make things work sometimes, but hey, at least I'm happy and not fueling MS's plans for world domination( by strangle hold on the market place ).
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