And how long will that last? I'm just waiting for them to announce paid tiers to Battle.net for online play. Maybe starting your own game/server will cost money. They have you by the balls now, no LAN, and they have a huge fanbase that will cave in.

What if the earth gets hit by a meteor? What if Microsoft purchases the government and we get charged for oxygen intake?! What if god descends from the heavens and smites the heathen?!! WHAT IF?!!!!

You can spend a lot of time worrying about things that will probably never happen or you can start enjoying things.

I thought more PC gamers would be against this kind of stuff, but I guess it's all over now

Sounds like someone's been taking all that free content for granted.

It's typically only ever been good for the developers of the game, with the modders extending it's life (and sales) for far longer than it would otherwise.

No, I'm all for this. It will promote a certain level of quality, too, as I can see only the absolute best maps ever selling enough to be worthwhile.

Counter-argument. It's industry standard in the software industry to NOT charge for these types of addons. Therefore, I think it's f*cked from an "industry" standpoint to charge for something that's essentially been free for the past 25 years.

No, you're completely wrong. Charging for 'addons' (or mods) have been standard in the industry for a while now. Ie. CS, Garry's mod, Premium NWN modules, etc.

Again, you can stick with the free stuff if you want, or buy the more 'deluxe' versions.

This comment was edited on Aug 23, 2009, 18:28.

I read this and I see Blizzard sitting there thinking "Jeebus, DotA did gangbusters and helped sell craploads of Warcraft 3 copies."

Hehe, no doubt.

Now, they have two options if they want to get on the gravy train. They could just hire the DotA dev team like Valve does, throw them a real budget, and create something that sells insanely, or they could take a page from the apple app store and let indy devs publish games, and when something gets popular, Blizzard gets residuals off of the sweat of other developers. This isn't compensating developers, this is a tax to use their game in ways that have become the industry norm.

And why not? They're putting a shitload of effort towards making SC2 not just a game, but almost a platform in its own right. People may use their engine, models, textures, sound effects, and high-quality tools, and create something in months that would've taken years for a small team starting from scratch. It's practically engine licensing. On top of this, they also provide a highly visible retail venue. I don't object to it one bit if they take a percentage when other people make money using their platform. So long as there is no baseline fee for "developers" like there is with Apple's appstore, and people can keep releasing their stuff for free, I'm happy, and I think free stuff will still be the norm for user-created content. It would take something on the scale of Black Mesa [Source] to make me pay for something user-created up-front, at least.

I think that it's safe to say that SC2 has jumped the shark. I'm no longer interested in a 1998 RTS with 2004 graphics and a 2009 DRM/marketplace scheme. The only thing modern about this game is how it's going to separate you from your money.

And maybe, just maybe, some of that Blizzard polish&magic that transforms games from just great to fucking awesome.

This comment was edited on Aug 23, 2009, 14:03.

And how long will that last? I'm just waiting for them to announce paid tiers to Battle.net for online play. Maybe starting your own game/server will cost money. They have you by the balls now, no LAN, and they have a huge fanbase that will cave in.

There's nothing stopping people from offering maps for free or even putting up maps with their own prices on webspace with a paypal button. The "slippery slope" argument is a bit ridiculous because Battle.net itself is still free and that's what is important. If people find value in a paid service like Xbox Live, I don't really see the problem. They want to subscribe to Battle.net? It's their money. You still have the option of not doing so and continuing to play for free.

It opens a dangerous path. Basically Battle.net is going to be Xbox Live. Microtransactions, 'indie' maps, and I wouldn't doubt a paid tier of service at this rate.

Sure they're options, shitty options. I thought more PC gamers would be against this kind of stuff, but I guess it's all over now.

I don't really see the problem. If you're a mapmaker who wants to release things for free that's still going to be an option. If you want to be compensated for your work then you have that option. I thought we liked having options? If you're just generic entitled user #050 and want all of your maps for free, you'll still have some options and if you want to get all indignant about it then you can always make your own maps and show them who's boss.

People were worried Sony was going to do this for LBP...

If Blizzard actually does this, hooo boy...

I think it's standard industry practice for the developer/artist to get the short end of the stick. I think Weird Al once mentioned that he only gets a few dozen cents for every CD that he sells. Once retailers and your music label/publisher gets through the money first, and you pay off your expenses, most developers actually don't get paid that much. Even if Blizz takes most of the cut, it's prob still not that bad of a deal if you put things in perspective.

Counter-argument. It's industry standard in the software industry to NOT charge for these types of addons. Therefore, I think it's f*cked from an "industry" standpoint to charge for something that's essentially been free for the past 25 years.

Also, the lame-ass excuse of "everyone else gets it up the ass if they create something, these devs should bend over too" is so disgusting of an argument that I can't find civil words to discuss it. You sound like an industry PR spokes-hole.

A small portion of the revenue should go to Blizzard every download (a publishing cut), and the creator should be the one rewarded. To do anything else is to condone piracy in my opinion (i.e. profiting from someone else's software development, be it free use or actual monetary gain).

Corporate piracy. I like the sound of that.

I read this and I see Blizzard sitting there thinking "Jeebus, DotA did gangbusters and helped sell craploads of Warcraft 3 copies."

Now, they have two options if they want to get on the gravy train. They could just hire the DotA dev team like Valve does, throw them a real budget, and create something that sells insanely, or they could take a page from the apple app store and let indy devs publish games, and when something gets popular, Blizzard gets residuals off of the sweat of other developers. This isn't compensating developers, this is a tax to use their game in ways that have become the industry norm. It's a way to generate residual income after the initial surge of sales. Blizzard has suckled too deeply at the teat of subscriptions with WoW, and they're trying to apply a new "subscription" market to SC2 with as little work as possible on their behalf. I kind of wonder at this point if Bill Roper hadn't walked away from Blizzard with their 10 year business plan, because this smells an awful lot like a Flagship.

I think that it's safe to say that SC2 has jumped the shark. I'm no longer interested in a 1998 RTS with 2004 graphics and a 2009 DRM/marketplace scheme. The only thing modern about this game is how it's going to separate you from your money.

Don't get me wrong, I definitely think something like DOTA is worth paying for in the state it is now - in fact I plan on getting HoN - but I doubt it would've been able to establish itself in the first place if it had started out with a price-tag

That's an excellent point. Nothing gets your stuff out there quite like it being free.

How much do authors get for apps on the iPhone store? I heard it was something like 70%, with Apple taking the other 30%. While that would seem like a good setup for Starcraft 2, I anticipate the reverse being more likely, with Blizzard taking the big 70%.

People have spent more time in Dota than most retail games out there. That one map is more fun than all of valve's products combined except for TF2 and CS. Would I pay more than 99 cents for a better version? Fuck yeah.

Then again, would it have been able to build a large userbase if it had started out as something you'd have to pay for? Doubtful.

Don't get me wrong, I definitely think something like DOTA is worth paying for in the state it is now - in fact I plan on getting HoN - but I doubt it would've been able to establish itself in the first place if it had started out with a price-tag.

Aside from all this bullshit, maps would be the least of all I would pay money for. Not because all of them arent worth it but because every time I download maps for RTS games, only like 5% are really worth keeping the thing on my hard drive. You simply cant judge if a map is good just by some screenshots.

I also read somewhere else that Blizzard is going to keep the majority of the money. Only a very small portion is going to the creators of the maps.
FU Blizzard.

This comment was edited on Aug 23, 2009, 04:40.

Couple of bucks? What? We pay on average 99 cents for a music track. There is no way in hell buying single maps one at a time is worth more than 99 cents.

People have spent more time in Dota than most retail games out there. That one map is more fun than all of valve's products combined except for TF2 and CS. Would I pay more than 99 cents for a better version? Fuck yeah.

This is the only problem I have with this... A small portion of the revenue should go to Blizzard every download (a publishing cut), and the creator should be the one rewarded. To do anything else is to condone piracy in my opinion (i.e. profiting from someone else's software development, be it free use or actual monetary gain). The percentage on this will directly determine my entire perspective of Blizzard in totality as they apparently continue to deviate from the business practices that made them such a success in the hearts and minds of gamers.

Z9000: I think it's standard industry practice for the developer/artist to get the short end of the stick. I think Weird Al once mentioned that he only gets a few dozen cents for every CD that he sells. Once retailers and your music label/publisher gets through the money first, and you pay off your expenses, most developers actually don't get paid that much. Even if Blizz takes most of the cut, it's prob still not that bad of a deal if you put things in perspective.

This comment was edited on Aug 23, 2009, 03:16.

I applaud this... seems completely kick ass to me. Amateur devs can work their asses off and make something worth paying for, then get actual money out of it.

Trust capitalism people... things not worth any money won't make it.

Couple of bucks? What? We pay on average 99 cents for a music track. There is no way in hell buying single maps one at a time is worth more than 99 cents.

Wow, I'll be damned if I can figure out what the price of music has anything to do with it. Hey, next time, why not throw in a reference to the price of a cheeseburger at your local Maccas too?

For the rest of us who perhaps like our comparisons to be at least from the same industry, a good reference would be how much DLC is generally being charged for. The Call of Duty map packs available on the xbox live network, for example, generally cost about $10 and include 4 maps.

I would predict Starcraft 2 maps will max out in the $5 range. That would be for the premium, DOTA-level maps, those filled to the brim with custom units and abilities. While I suspect authors could charge more at their discretion, I don't see them ever selling any.

If I want to charge a couple bucks for my map

Couple of bucks? What? We pay on average 99 cents for a music track. There is no way in hell buying single maps one at a time is worth more than 99 cents.

How do you decide if a map is good enough to warrant a purchase? What if you buy a map and hate it? I imagine most of the good maps will remain free.

As a Warcraft 3 map maker I'd love to have the option to charge for my content if I want. Clearly it gives the author of the mod the choice here, and there's nothing wrong with that. If I want to charge a couple bucks for my map, that's my choice. You don't want to buy it; walk the other way.

No harm done here.