I total agree with Prez as I think that is what I stated (try to) earlier.

There are some real fanboi's (on all sides) taking this way to personal imho.

I'm sorry, but the only way the L4D situation doesn't piss me off is by ignoring Valve's past history in supporting their games. If I start to think about the way they have supported, and still support TF2 (a $20 game no less), the relatively agonizing slow rate of meaningful content updates L4D has seen starts to give me a rise in blood pressure.

Taking L4D in a vacuum, and considering that there is a steady stream of genuinely good user-created content being released, makes it much more palatable for me personally. I actually started playing it again far more regularly once the SDK was released.

Your opinions mean fuck all when you don't factor in Valves history, the fact that they are still supporting L4D as well as their other games, they are working to integrate the 2 L4D games and that Chet is admitting they made a marketing error. You say I'm a broken record, but you guys are the ones that come in each and every L4D thread to say the same bullshit before I even post, and whether I post or not.

Hey guys I totally value your opinions! Wait they dont mean shit because you don't agree with me and won't accept my side of the argument!!

Dagok:
L4D isn't getting the kinda content that TF2 has, and valve specifically used that comparision when saying how they would support it, so no I disagree on that one.
They only said they are looking into integration not that they are actually doing it. I've already listed a number of big problems with doing integration of any kind, and I think they will end up concluding thats a pipe dream, and they mostly mentioned it to try and reduce some of the negative feelings.
The whole marketing error statement is reduced in impact for me by examining other recent statements where they've basically said things like sony says about the PS3, namely all this stuff about L4D1 is meaningless noise and they will buy it regardless. That may be the case, but its not all that good of an idea to show that kind of arrogance and contempt for your users.

Such ignorant posts, it's ridiculous.

I'm not trying to bully anyone into buying anything. I've said nothing even remotely close to that. I could care less if you buy L4D2 or not. You are the ones not listening, not taking into account what has been said, or cutting Valve some slack based on their actions, past and present.

Your opinions mean fuck all when you don't factor in Valves history, the fact that they are still supporting L4D as well as their other games, they are working to integrate the 2 L4D games and that Chet is admitting they made a marketing error. You say I'm a broken record, but you guys are the ones that come in each and every L4D thread to say the same bullshit before I even post, and whether I post or not.

The Pro-L4D people always seem more interested in bullying people into buying the followup as opposed to hearing what anyone has to say.

My personal favorite post of the thread.

Right...that's why there are examples of it in this very thread.

Apparently not agreeing with Dagok = ignoring facts.

Right...that's why there are examples of it in this very thread. You have done it in the past and I've called you on it. Stuff it.

Sorry but it's not my fault you are too thick in the head to understand people can have differing opinions than yours. You are not the center of the universe dumbass, stuff that somewhere the sun don't shine.

You're like a broken record.

Well isn't that the pot calling the kettle black.

No one is ignoring anything.

Right...that's why there are examples of it in this very thread. You have done it in the past and I've called you on it. Stuff it.

Caveman:
I read it. So what? The author missed the point entirely with regards to L4D1 vs 2. The point being that valve promised a bunch of stuff for L4D1 DLC and then didn't deliver. My beef isn't so much with "so soon" as with "they lied"

Now I'll agree with his points in general as they regard sequels. Its quite hard to please everyone

You want me to stop reminding you that you are ignoring facts that contradict your statements, then stop making them without taking into consideration what has been said.

You're like a broken record. No one is ignoring anything. They just don't agree with you. Someone can take everything into context and still make a decision that doesn't reconcile with yours. That's life.

Jesus.

you're as predictable as they are so why don't we all just agree to disagree?

Pretty sure that's what we've been doing...yet it still continues. You want me to stop reminding you that you are ignoring facts that contradict your statements, then stop making them without taking into consideration what has been said.

I mean christ, Chet says he isn't happy about how things were handled and has taken it upon himself to try and clear things up by doing press himself. The reactions of some to that is to harp about a single statement regarding his initial plan to have had the DLC out before E3, but didnt happen.

Bottomline is people are commenting on a single statement taken out of context. He openly said he is is angry at Marketing, and unhappy about how it was handled. Do you think someone is going to publicly state that, if he is just trying to pull wool over your eyes? His comments could get many fired at other companies.

This comment was edited on Aug 20, 2009, 19:00.

Everyone should read this article
http://www.nomoregameblogs.com/main/2009/8/19/sequels-blessing-and-a-curse.html

Didnt change the fact that you and all the other usual suspects continued on with the same statements over and over and getting into the same arguments with others that feel the same as I do.

He didn't say it was supposed to change anything. He just said you're doing exactly what you accuse others of doing. He's right, you're as predictable as they are so why don't we all just agree to disagree?

I just have doubts over the credibility of the statement made by Valve in this article...

All Im going to say is read the interview...and take his comments in context. The first few paragraphs, Chet outlines how he wasn't happy with how things were announced/dealt with, which is why he is out doing press himself.

People make mistakes. Hanging them for it is pointless.

People wanted to see quicker releases from Valve...they got it...then others bitch. Valve can't win, no matter what they do.

Oh, come on - everyone was clearly referring to singleplayer content. With multiplayer games it's all about the community and releasing a sequel too soon can seriously damage a multiplayer game like L4D. It would be great if they could push out an episode for HL2 in less than a year but they haven't even announced anything about Ep3 - that's part of the reason why people are annoyed.

L4D2 has a ton of content and changes to it, and if people can't see that for themselves, no amount of debating will convince them of that.

No-one's doubting that and I think it looks quite interesting. However, Valve admitted that much of that content was originally aimed for L4D DLC, hence the controversy.

You can't just add a new boss infected here one at a time, or add a new weapon there. It would completely unbalance the games, the existing campaigns wouldn't properly support them without significant overhauls, and more. What they've shown for Left 4 Dead 2 so far would be IMPOSSIBLE to add as DLC for L4D in the same timeframe.

But look at all the changes made for TF2 that had required careful balancing - upgradeable dispensers / teleports, unlocks, gametypes, etc. Balancing 9 classes and all the possible interactions from each unlock is a lot more involved than simply slapping in another special infected and a more powerful gun to help dispatch it. And saying it's impossible is very different to what Valve said publicly, so your statement simply has no credibility.

@Dagok - You seem to think I have something against L4D2, or even L4D. I don't. I'm a little disappointed by the amount of support that L4D has seen - much less than CSS and TF2 - but it's still better than most games and it was solid on release. It hasn't held my attention and doesn't have much replayability anymore but I only picked it up because it was cheap... I was much more interested in TF2 and long before they announced the change in direction. L4D2 looks decent, especially some of the daylight levels, but I'm hoping they'll pull a special deal, like bundling it with Black Mesa Source (it's meant to be due 2009) or adding backward compatibility (something they've only suggested as a possibility, far far from a firm confirmation).

I just have doubts over the credibility of the statement made by Valve in this article (the "we didn't think to mention it") and have some criticisms I like to raise. This forum is meant to discuss games afterall and the L4D2 decision is CLEARLY controversial if Gabe has to address it in all the interviews he's done since. I still think that Valve is one of the best game developers / publishers out there, even if I have some serious criticism about certain business decisions.

I actually didn't respond to any of the threads for about a month. Didnt change the fact that you and all the other usual suspects continued on with the same statements over and over and getting into the same arguments with others that feel the same as I do.

But get over it already, no amount of bitching is going to change that it's happening. Wait and see what happens, choose to play or not.

Again I'm not sure how many times I can repeat the same thing but people are going to voice their opinion for as long as they feel is necessary. Nothing you do or say will change it. The same way you repeating the same things in these topics for the past three months has grown incredibly obnoxious but you continue to do so as well.

Seriously Elessar? This was a single quote taken from an interview (promoting L4D2) and an answer given to a question. It's not like Chet randomly called up Shacknews just to make that comment.

See the link to Shacknews? Click it. Then click the link to Offworld to the original interview.

http://www.offworld.com/2009/08/ragdoll-metaphysics-valves-che.html

Would you rather he declined to comment on questions related to that? You can bet you all would be bitching if they started snubbing anyone asking questions related to that topic.

I like how you say you're tolerant of other opinions previously then go right and say something like this.

I don't see how one has anything to do with the other. I can listen to their opinions, doesn't mean I have to agree with them, nor does it mean I can't present my own. Just because they are conflicting, does not mean I'm not tolerant of those opinions.

But when those same opinions are presented every time the topic comes up over a 10 week period, and the opinion hasn't been modified based on the additional information released since that time...yes my tolerance grows thin. If those people choose to completely avoid trying to see anything from another perspective (Valve's in this case), then there is no point in trying to convince them otherwise.

People are upset at it coming so quickly after the first game hasn't received what they think is adequate product support.

Jesus, no shit. How many times do I have to say it...I get it. Doesn't mean I agree with it, nor do I have to. But get over it already, no amount of bitching is going to change that it's happening. Wait and see what happens, choose to play or not.

Hell, I'm not even playing L4D right now...has nothing to do with L4D2, or lack of DLC. Infact the problem is from their support...in the form of the SDK they released. Which thanks to modders the majority of servers have ridiculously unbalancing server-side gameplay mods. Do I go and whine about it on a forum they will never read? No. I emailed Chet directly suggesting some filter options for Quick Match, namely one so we can choose to play on "pure" servers.