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More Randy Pitchford on Steam and the EGS

Randy Pitchford has continued to grind his ax against Steam on Twitter, to the extent that they've been collected into a lengthy Reddit post to make it easier to understand the Gearbox boss's position (thanks Ars Technica). This includes a TL;DR of the TL;DR, saying "Competition good, Steam bad." Here's the longer TL;DR from which that is distilled:

He believes that what we are currently experiencing with EGS is only a mild annoyance towards something that is ultimately very good because Valve had a stranglehold on PC distribution and that is bad.

He believes that in a year or two, EGS will be far more developed than Steam, because Epic is not as complacent as Valve. (I would like to note that Tim Sweeney believes that Steam even has too many features, so Randy is pretty much incorrect)

He thinks that Epic will eventually beat Valve and that in about a decade Steam might be a dying platform, or at least whichever platform is the dominant it will not be Steam. Randy also thinks that the fact that Valve is privately owned is a disadvantage (lol) and compares them with Epic whose outside investors (Tencent, yup, he considers it a good thing) are insisting on constant growth and reinvestment into the business.

Finally, he believes that years from now we will look back to the day that Bl3 came to EGS as an amazing day for gaming because the ''Steam monopoly'' officially died.

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68. Re: More Randy Pitchford on Steam and the EGS Apr 23, 2019, 17:50 Tipsy McStagger
 
someone has yet to explain how Epic Games Store being in competition with Steam is good for us.. the gamers.

Currently it does nothing good for me, zero benefit. Games will not be lower cost for the savings they are getting on the overhead.

Can someone please explain how this will change everything for us? So far all it's doing to me is making it so I really don't want to install a new games store to play exclusives.
 
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67. Re: More Randy Pitchford on Steam and the EGS Apr 23, 2019, 09:17 Slashman
 
Slick wrote on Apr 21, 2019, 19:10:
Nice.

White-knighting a multi-billionaire. I lol'd. You literally just got mad at me for caring about video games... On a gaming forum. YEAH MAN WE DONT EVEN WANT VALVE TO MAKE GAMES! WE JUST WANT MORE OF THAT SEXY DRM BABY! - edgiest man alive

How dare the fans of Valve's video games want their videogame company to make video games? I mean.. it just doesn't make sense man! Especially considering how much money us gamers have funneled their way. I don't want more games! I just wanna get GabeN another private island! DUH! Besides, we know that it's all about that sweet sweet steam in-game overlay that lets me use VoIP bro, you cant get that anywhere else duuuuuude.

BTW, you know you can launch non-steam games on Steam right? You can still have that super Ill layer of extra DRM running in the background mr. cool guy.

Extreme bro. Extreme to the max.

What are you on? You're telling me I'm white knighting a multi-billionaire while you white knight CORPORATIONS? You know the entities that have been screwing us over forever? And you're willing to do whatever it takes just so Valve makes games again or punish them for not making games? Yeah that's really likely to work.

Is this the twilight zone? Have games dried up with Valve not making them? Is there an unfulfilled demand for a genre that only Valve can supply?

"How dare the fans of Valve's video games want their videogame company to make video games?" That is some next level entitlement right there. It's not your company! Get some fucking perspective!
 
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66. Re: More Randy Pitchford on Steam and the EGS Apr 21, 2019, 19:39 Sepharo
 
Hey, this isn't related at all to the discussion but hoping Slick will see it relatively soon here... Shroud is playing your game right now for some reason, need to get in there and show him what's up lol  
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65. Re: More Randy Pitchford on Steam and the EGS Apr 21, 2019, 19:10 Slick
 
Nice.

White-knighting a multi-billionaire. I lol'd. You literally just got mad at me for caring about video games... On a gaming forum. YEAH MAN WE DONT EVEN WANT VALVE TO MAKE GAMES! WE JUST WANT MORE OF THAT SEXY DRM BABY! - edgiest man alive

How dare the fans of Valve's video games want their videogame company to make video games? I mean.. it just doesn't make sense man! Especially considering how much money us gamers have funneled their way. I don't want more games! I just wanna get GabeN another private island! DUH! Besides, we know that it's all about that sweet sweet steam in-game overlay that lets me use VoIP bro, you cant get that anywhere else duuuuuude.

BTW, you know you can launch non-steam games on Steam right? You can still have that super Ill layer of extra DRM running in the background mr. cool guy.

Extreme bro. Extreme to the max.
 
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64. Re: More Randy Pitchford on Steam and the EGS Apr 21, 2019, 09:32 Slashman
 
Slick wrote on Apr 21, 2019, 04:35:
Yeah, how dare gamers care about a game developer deciding to no longer make games. lol. "despite it having nothing to do with anything" riiiight, because I care more about a web browser in my DRM middleware than the (probably) most profitable game company in the world actually making games.

Well that's you. You don't care more about features on the Steam store than other people who do give a crap. It doesn't invalidate the fact that Epic doesn't have ANYTHING to show in that department. For everybody else that does care it makes a difference.

And yeah it doesn't have anything to do with you if they ever make another game. They didn't contract to make games for you and they are under no obligation to make games again. Get over it.
 
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63. Re: More Randy Pitchford on Steam and the EGS Apr 21, 2019, 04:35 Slick
 
Slashman wrote on Apr 20, 2019, 15:23:
Creston wrote on Apr 20, 2019, 15:04:
Look, I get it, paying 12% at Epic is WAY better for the publishers' shareholders than paying 30% at Steam. And that's fine, I'm not gainsaying that. But this fucking retard rhetoric that all Steam has done over the years is buy more fucking burritos to shove down Gabe's yap is disingenuous and really needs to fucking stop. When and why did Steam suddenly become the fucking boogeyman of PC Gaming? Because Tim Fucking Sweeney said so?

No its because people who have hated Steam for years because they got no Half-Life 3, or Portal 3, and whatever other imaginary games Valve promised them but didn't deliver, now have some sort of solid ground to point and say "take that you lazy fuckers!"

Nevermind these boatloads of features you provided me. You didn't give me more games that I wanted! I mean it literally slips out every Steam/Epic discussion. Despite it having nothing to do with anything.

Yeah, how dare gamers care about a game developer deciding to no longer make games. lol. "despite it having nothing to do with anything" riiiight, because I care more about a web browser in my DRM middleware than the (probably) most profitable game company in the world actually making games.

TBH Epic isn't any better, they have a slower release schedule than Valve I think, and that's saying something.

We're arguing about stores. Why don't people care as much about the Target vs Walmart "debate"? Oh right, because it isn't an issue, because regular people don't really give a shit about where they buy the things they buy. They care about the price, and the product. If they're altruistic, they also care about the people who made the product, but that's a small minority.

Like I've said already, this is new territory for both sides of the industry now with EGS being a real competitor to Steam. Nobody really knows how it's going to shake out, and how the extra money not sucked up by middlemen will break down. There's been what, like 30 games released on EGS so far? This is the beginning of the beginning of this story.

Fact remains that we've seen one example of a game being $10 cheaper (for people in the USA) on EGS, so it can happen, will this become a new norm? That remains to be seen. But that would be good for consumers and publishers/developers. And that would be the greatest threat to Steam's virtual monopoly on digital game distribution on PC. Damn, it's about time.
 
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62. Re: More Randy Pitchford on Steam and the EGS Apr 21, 2019, 04:26 Slick
 
Pepe wrote on Apr 20, 2019, 07:53:
Slick wrote on Apr 20, 2019, 03:12:
Valve haven't had an original idea for a videogame since Half-Life. Everything else they've pushed out has been bought out by other people who came up with the ideas. Valve is creatively bankrupt, and have been for literally over 2 decades. Just saying, that it's odd for a video game company to not really make video games.

I don't agree completely with this statement, they may have a ton of good idea's, but the way the company is run might make it impossible to get those games made.

A lot of good people left the company because of the weird company structure and their inability to get anything done due to this.

You can get away with certain exentricities when you are a smallish company but once you get to the size of Valve you need to adapt or get stuck in an unworkable mess.

I appreciate your response, but let me stop you right there.

"they may have a ton of good ideas" - False

That's my point. Even if they decided to actually act on any "good ideas" and make games again, my point was entirely pointing to the fact that CounterStrike, Day of Defeat, Riccochet, Team Fortress, Left 4 Dead, Portal, and Dota 2 were ALL "good ideas" that modders or other small devs came up with, then Valve either bought out the team, or bought out the idea for them to turn into a game. The games are all really good! I'm replaying Portal 2 right now. But the last original game idea that came from Valve was Half Life (HL2 was a sequel, not really an original idea).
 
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61. Re: More Randy Pitchford on Steam and the EGS Apr 20, 2019, 15:23 Slashman
 
Creston wrote on Apr 20, 2019, 15:04:
Look, I get it, paying 12% at Epic is WAY better for the publishers' shareholders than paying 30% at Steam. And that's fine, I'm not gainsaying that. But this fucking retard rhetoric that all Steam has done over the years is buy more fucking burritos to shove down Gabe's yap is disingenuous and really needs to fucking stop. When and why did Steam suddenly become the fucking boogeyman of PC Gaming? Because Tim Fucking Sweeney said so?

No its because people who have hated Steam for years because they got no Half-Life 3, or Portal 3, and whatever other imaginary games Valve promised them but didn't deliver, now have some sort of solid ground to point and say "take that you lazy fuckers!"

Nevermind these boatloads of features you provided me. You didn't give me more games that I wanted! I mean it literally slips out every Steam/Epic discussion. Despite it having nothing to do with anything.
 
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60. Re: More Randy Pitchford on Steam and the EGS Apr 20, 2019, 15:04 Creston
 
Meanwhile, Valve has taken an absurd cut of the revenue - which would be fine except they have not reinvested it.

Literally one paragraph later

Valve has made significant investments into technology, and should be applauded for the resultant innovations.

All this whining about how Valve hasn't done anything is just horseshit. Steam has fucking TRUCKLOADS of features. Many of those have been just as beneficial for the publishers as they have been for the consumers.

Look, I get it, paying 12% at Epic is WAY better for the publishers' shareholders than paying 30% at Steam. And that's fine, I'm not gainsaying that. But this fucking retard rhetoric that all Steam has done over the years is buy more fucking burritos to shove down Gabe's yap is disingenuous and really needs to fucking stop. When and why did Steam suddenly become the fucking boogeyman of PC Gaming? Because Tim Fucking Sweeney said so?
 
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59. Re: More Randy Pitchford on Steam and the EGS Apr 20, 2019, 14:57 Creston
 
Read through that Reddit thread, a lot of what he says makes sense, though he also seems to declare his own optimistic vision as a fait accompli. When he says that "inevitably" Epic will be better than Steam, I literally roll my eyes so hard it hurts my neck.

If and when the Fortnite money dries up, the party at the Epic store will be OVER for the publishers. From that point on, Epic will have to compete on features for both parties (customers AND publishers), because all that "here's ten million bucks if you go exclusive on my store" shit will end. And so far Epic gives zero fucks about the customer, so when they stop buying exclusives and games return to Steam (IF they do), everyone will just go right back to buying from Steam.

So once Fortnite ends, will Epic still put money in their store from that point on, when their take-home on every game is only 12%? Who knows. I can just as easily see them just shutting all development down since they can't afford to keep doing it.

As for the belief that being privately owned is somehow worse than being 40% owned by a Chinese investor... Rolleyes

he believes that years from now we will look back to the day that Bl3 came to EGS as an amazing day for gaming because the ''Steam monopoly'' officially died.

What a fucking tool. He's acting as if Borderlands is the next GTA. Stop sucking your own dick, Randy.
 
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58. Re: More Randy Pitchford on Steam and the EGS Apr 20, 2019, 14:22 Mr. Tact
 
Creston wrote on Apr 20, 2019, 14:18:
Once Steam dies and Epic has the monopoly, everything will be so fucking great guys, just wait and see!
Haha!
 
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57. Re: More Randy Pitchford on Steam and the EGS Apr 20, 2019, 14:21 FloorPie
 
CJ_Parker wrote on Apr 20, 2019, 12:11:
MoreLuckThanSkill wrote on Apr 20, 2019, 11:32:
At the very least, people need to realize that very few of any 'savings' services like Epic may provide will translate to the consumers(players).

Once more: No one has claimed that the lesser EGS cut is for the gamers. I already linked to the GameInformer article with Swimmy below. Swimmy himself said that they are doing the lesser cut for the "developers" (he meant publishers obviously since any entity that sells games on a digital storefront is a publisher by definition regardless of whether they developed the game themselves or not).

But, yeah, y'all Steam elitist shills go right ahead and ignore any and all facts that don't fit yer agenda. Gotcha. Epic is the devil. Publishers even more so except when they accept Epic's bribes cuz then they are innocent little angels who are seduced with candy by the evil pedo uncle Swimmy. The ordinary world of the simpleton.

Baloney. The devs of the Rebel Galaxy games have said as much. That it would benefit them as devs and gamers both in the long run. That has been the spin for months now to get people to ignore the short/medium term benefits the devs/publishers get with the Epic middleman taking a smaller cut that has no short term bennies like cheaper prices for the gamer.
 
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56. Re: More Randy Pitchford on Steam and the EGS Apr 20, 2019, 14:18 Creston
 
Once Steam dies and Epic has the monopoly, everything will be so fucking great guys, just wait and see!  
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55. Re: More Randy Pitchford on Steam and the EGS Apr 20, 2019, 14:01 HorrorScope
 
CJ_Parker wrote on Apr 20, 2019, 12:11:
But, yeah, y'all Steam elitist shills go right ahead and ignore any and all facts that don't fit yer agenda. Gotcha. Epic is the devil.

That's a lot of hyperbolic blah blah.
 
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54. Re: More Randy Pitchford on Steam and the EGS Apr 20, 2019, 13:58 HorrorScope
 
Slashman wrote on Apr 20, 2019, 11:10:
I'm sure Epic is working for the good of the consumer after Steam killed off the indie market and the AAA publishing market and that Epic didn't spit in the face of PC gaming until they had a hit franchise like Fortnite to print money for them.

That's a nice compact statement.
 
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53. Re: More Randy Pitchford on Steam and the EGS Apr 20, 2019, 13:34 RedEye9
 
Slashman wrote on Apr 20, 2019, 13:25:
It is about their bottom line period.
The joy of short term profits that is the backbone of capitalism.

In this model iphone we're gonna take away the 3.5mm plug.
In our next model iphone we remove the user replaceable battery (oh wait, apple figured this out a long time ago and never had user replaceable batteries).

less is more, buy buy buy

 
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52. Re: More Randy Pitchford on Steam and the EGS Apr 20, 2019, 13:25 Slashman
 
Beamer wrote on Apr 20, 2019, 13:13:
Lower costs isn't just higher profitability and therefore money in others' pockets:

1) Reduced costs of distribution can mean higher forecasts, meaning higher budgets, meaning either more content or more polished content. Every aspect of the game can have more resources.

2) Or, even if it all remains the same, a game hits profitability sooner, and goes farther past it, meaning we'd be more likely to see sequels for games we enjoyed.

Maybe...for the self-published games it might mean those things. But for the most of the kinds of exclusive deals they are going for it will likely amount to jack shit. Contracts will be altered to adjust for more money going to the publisher but not to the developer.

And before you tell me I am being paranoid...go back and check what happened with Paradox and Sword of the Stars 2, Kalypso Media and Legacy of Pegasus, Square Enix and Just Cause 4, EA and Mass Effect Andromeda and Anthem. And I could fucking go on but its clear to me that publishers are NOT about putting more money in the hands of the developers even if it means saving a game that could have been good if it had a little more time and money.

That is the kind of shit show that publishers run. It is about their bottom line period.
 
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51. Re: More Randy Pitchford on Steam and the EGS Apr 20, 2019, 13:13 Beamer
 
Lower costs isn't just higher profitability and therefore money in others' pockets:

1) Reduced costs of distribution can mean higher forecasts, meaning higher budgets, meaning either more content or more polished content. Every aspect of the game can have more resources.

2) Or, even if it all remains the same, a game hits profitability sooner, and goes farther past it, meaning we'd be more likely to see sequels for games we enjoyed.
 
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50. Re: More Randy Pitchford on Steam and the EGS Apr 20, 2019, 12:11 CJ_Parker
 
MoreLuckThanSkill wrote on Apr 20, 2019, 11:32:
At the very least, people need to realize that very few of any 'savings' services like Epic may provide will translate to the consumers(players).

Once more: No one has claimed that the lesser EGS cut is for the gamers. I already linked to the GameInformer article with Swimmy below. Swimmy himself said that they are doing the lesser cut for the "developers" (he meant publishers obviously since any entity that sells games on a digital storefront is a publisher by definition regardless of whether they developed the game themselves or not).

But, yeah, y'all Steam elitist shills go right ahead and ignore any and all facts that don't fit yer agenda. Gotcha. Epic is the devil. Publishers even more so except when they accept Epic's bribes cuz then they are innocent little angels who are seduced with candy by the evil pedo uncle Swimmy. The ordinary world of the simpleton.
 
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49. Re: More Randy Pitchford on Steam and the EGS Apr 20, 2019, 11:32 MoreLuckThanSkill
 
Slashman wrote on Apr 20, 2019, 11:10:
CJ_Parker wrote on Apr 20, 2019, 09:40:
Slashman wrote on Apr 20, 2019, 08:35:
But we all know they won't. Not even close. They funnel that extra money beck into their own pockets and not give the devs anything more than they were getting before.

That would only be true for fraudulent publishers. If the conditions remain exactly the same then the dev will absolutely benefit from EGS sales, of course, due to the royalties against advance business model.

It's simple math. The dev is usually entitled to receive royalties as soon as the publisher breaks even. The publisher will break even much sooner if they have to pay less of a fee to the digital game store. It is therefore good for the dev if the publisher sells as many copies as possible on the store that takes a lesser cut.

Also, at least those kinds of high profile devs who can choose their publishers rather than vice versa, can use the lesser EGS cut as leverage in the negotiations with their publisher for better contracts (e.g. a slightly higher royalty share or something... even a slightly higher percentage of ~3% can mean a lot more money for the dev in the long run).

It's short-sighted and a little too simpleton to boldly claim that the EVUUUUHL publisher will just pocket the money for hookers & blow for the CEOs.

Yeah let's pretend that what EA and Activision do to developers are an anomaly and that all the rest of the publishers are actually nice guys from around the hood that have the best interests of gaming at heart.

You know instead of faceless corporate entities that exists SOLELY to make money. And as the article says...its funnier that you are coming down on Steam who has at least remained privately funded versus a huge faceless corp with major shares held by Tencent.

I'm sure Epic is working for the good of the consumer after Steam killed off the indie market and the AAA publishing market and that Epic didn't spit in the face of PC gaming until they had a hit franchise like Fortnite to print money for them.

Yes...all of a sudden publishers are the good guys. Rolleyes

Slashman, very well put. At the very least, people need to realize that very few of any 'savings' services like Epic may provide will translate to the consumers(players). At least, worldwide so far with Epic.

In other news, has the Epic Store stopped trying to harvest peoples' Steam data yet, or is that been forgotten with yet another CEO tweeting distracting things to the public?
 
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