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Valve Skin Gambling Lawsuit

A lawsuit filed against Valve Corporation in the state of Washington by the Native American Quinault Tribal Nation accuses game developer of "unethical, oppressive, and unscrupulous business conduct," for engaging in unfair competition with legally licensed casinos (thanks GamesIndustry.biz). This harkens back to a scandal that bubbled up in 2016 surrounding third-party gambling on Counter-Strike: Global Offensive skins. In spite of the actions Valve took at that time, they say, "Valve has profited handsomely for years from illegal online gambling, and has made only token efforts to stop it." Word is the Quinault Nation seeks damages, restitution, and for Valve to cease and desist what they allege is facilitation of illegal gambling. Here's more:

As CS:GO skins can be traded, the plaintiff argues they are a "thing of value" under state law.

Furthermore, Valve takes a 15% cut of any CS:GO items traded through the Steam Marketplace. This, the plaintiff argues, sees it benefiting directly from encouraging the exchange of digital goods.

These goods are acquired through loot boxes, which the filing notes, bear a striking aesthetic resemblance to slot machines. However, unlike regulated machines, Valve is not required to display the odds to users.

This lack of regulation gives Valve an unfair advantage, the filing suggests, because it is not required to ensure fair gambling conditions or pay fees and taxes to local government.

While Valve has repeatedly stated it has no relationship with third-party betting sites, the Quinault Nation suggested that the developer has taken only "minimum steps" to stop skin gambling sites identified by the Washington Gaming Commission back in 2016.

The plaintiff also alleges that the success of CS:GO, including the esports scene which has grown up around the game, is a result of tradable skins.

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19. Re: Valve Skin Gambling Lawsuit Apr 16, 2019, 17:32 saluk
 
I agree that it's gambling, but my viewpoint also is that a state law against online gambling in order to uphold a monopoly that is a really shitty restitution for the genocide of native people's and mass theft of their property is pretty bonkers.

Still they should win.
 
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18. Re: Valve Skin Gambling Lawsuit Apr 16, 2019, 17:20 RedEye9
 

CS:GOís controversial skin gambling, explained
https://www.pcgamer.com/csgo-skin-gambling/

 
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"The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you." Neil deGrasse Tyson
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17. Re: Valve Skin Gambling Lawsuit Apr 16, 2019, 16:17 RedEye9
 
HoSpanky wrote on Apr 16, 2019, 16:03:
Like someone else said, itís like blaming a playing card company for people losing money at casinos.
Except when someone loses at Texas Hold-Em the USPCC doesn't take a cut (15%) of the winnings.
 
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"The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you." Neil deGrasse Tyson
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16. Re: Valve Skin Gambling Lawsuit Apr 16, 2019, 16:03 HoSpanky
 
I donít really care for loot boxes, but as long as they only contain cosmetics, I donít think theyíre a decidedly BAD thing.

People will gamble on anything. ANYTHING. You canít stop it, the risk/reward is too tempting and exciting. The skins exist, but the gambling sites have their own system, it isnít built into anything Valve has. Like someone else said, itís like blaming a playing card company for people losing money at casinos.

People dig cosmetics in video games. This is proven. Valve has cosmetics in their games. The only real difference between CS:GO and every other game is that the skins can be sold through the marketplace. That in itself isnít inherently bad; people can get whatever they want if theyíre willing to pay for it. Basic supply/demand economics will set pricing.

The gambling is a completely separate system and Valve canít possibly be held responsible. Loot boxes may be a form of gambling but thatís not what the lawsuit is about.
 
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15. Re: Valve Skin Gambling Lawsuit Apr 16, 2019, 14:54 Prez
 
While I agree that Valve has been running unsanctioned, unregulated online gambling for years now, they'll likely beat this lawsuit because loot box and weapon skin gambling did not start falling under the international legal definition of gambling until only recently (as in Belgium and the Netherlands) and technically still doesn't in the US. I would love for that to change though; this crap is a cancer on gaming.  
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ďThe greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.Ē
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14. Re: Valve Skin Gambling Lawsuit Apr 16, 2019, 13:55 Mr. Tact
 
Whether or not the Quinault Nation deserves compensation, it certainly seems Valve has been acting in a less than ideal way. It wouldn't bother me in the least if they receive a significant fee/penalty and/or are forced to end the practice. I have no idea if either of those things is likely.  
Truth is brutal. Prepare for pain.
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13. Re: Valve Skin Gambling Lawsuit Apr 16, 2019, 13:11 Cutter
 
mch wrote on Apr 16, 2019, 10:16:
The question of whether or not lootboxes are gambling (and in need of regulation) aside, the Native American Quinault Tribal Nation doesn't deserve a fucking cent in "damages"

While I agree they're not entitled to damages the suit is legitimate, just against the wrong party. They should be suing the government for failing to enforce the law on Valve, EA, et al.
 
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"Ah, Impressionists, the boy bands of the art world." - Sideshow Bob
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12. Re: Valve Skin Gambling Lawsuit Apr 16, 2019, 13:04 Riahderymnmaddog
 
Lame  
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11. Re: Valve Skin Gambling Lawsuit Apr 16, 2019, 12:41 theglaze
 
It's true, Valve is profiting from a gambling scheme, with limited oversight and regulation from the government/organizations.

Go get'em NAQTN!
 
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10. Re: Valve Skin Gambling Lawsuit Apr 16, 2019, 12:38 RedEye9
 
WaltC wrote on Apr 16, 2019, 12:16:
I've never in 35 years seen a "skin gambling site" of any kind, let alone one run by a reputable software company.
Sigh, The infamous statistical point of ONE. I've never bought Viagra on-line nor have I seen an internet pharmacy site run by "reputable" retailers of boner pills, but I know they exist and just because I have never seen one means absolutely fuckall.

Nowhere did it state that the skin gambling sites were run by a "reputable" company. But it did state the fact that Valve get's a cut from every item sold on their "reputable" software company based Steam Marketplace.

teh artikuls, they require teh reeding
 
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"The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you." Neil deGrasse Tyson
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9. Re: Valve Skin Gambling Lawsuit Apr 16, 2019, 12:16 WaltC
 
Lord forbid the poor Indians on the reservation might not be able to gamble away their meager subsistence...this lawsuit is equivalent to suing companies that manufacture playing cards (for bridge, poker, et al) for getting rich on the fact that Casinos buy lots of their products for gambling...;) I've never in 35 years seen a "skin gambling site" of any kind, let alone one run by a reputable software company. BTW, I thought Avenatti had been locked up...;)  
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It is well known universally that I do not make mistakes--so, if you should happen across an error in that which I have written, please be assured that *I* did not write it!...:)
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8. Re: Valve Skin Gambling Lawsuit Apr 16, 2019, 11:31 Burrito of Peace
 
RedEye9 wrote on Apr 16, 2019, 11:11:
mch wrote on Apr 16, 2019, 11:00:
Timmeh wrote on Apr 16, 2019, 10:58:
I never heard of the Quinault Tribe until i started visiting Ocean Shores WA for vacation several years ago...

And then I discovered Sasquatch summit. A yearly Bigfoot Conference that started a few years back. Its held in November and hosted by the tribe at their casino. Been every year now for the last 5 years.

They have since started a paranormal UFO conference held in march.. not been to that one.

Ah, so they're used to making money off dumb shit. Got it.
Sadly, the Flat Earth symposium is sold out.
On a good note, tickets are still availble for the Hollow Earth huddle.

Reptilian Rigelian Rubric tickets, however, are still not yet on sale.
 
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7. Re: Valve Skin Gambling Lawsuit Apr 16, 2019, 11:11 RedEye9
 
mch wrote on Apr 16, 2019, 11:00:
Timmeh wrote on Apr 16, 2019, 10:58:
I never heard of the Quinault Tribe until i started visiting Ocean Shores WA for vacation several years ago...

And then I discovered Sasquatch summit. A yearly Bigfoot Conference that started a few years back. Its held in November and hosted by the tribe at their casino. Been every year now for the last 5 years.

They have since started a paranormal UFO conference held in march.. not been to that one.

Ah, so they're used to making money off dumb shit. Got it.
Sadly, the Flat Earth symposium is sold out.
On a good note, tickets are still availble for the Hollow Earth huddle.
 
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"The Universe is under no obligation to make sense to you." Neil deGrasse Tyson
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6. Re: Valve Skin Gambling Lawsuit Apr 16, 2019, 11:00 mch
 
Timmeh wrote on Apr 16, 2019, 10:58:
I never heard of the Quinault Tribe until i started visiting Ocean Shores WA for vacation several years ago...

And then I discovered Sasquatch summit. A yearly Bigfoot Conference that started a few years back. Its held in November and hosted by the tribe at their casino. Been every year now for the last 5 years.

They have since started a paranormal UFO conference held in march.. not been to that one.

Ah, so they're used to making money off dumb shit. Got it.
 
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5. Re: Valve Skin Gambling Lawsuit Apr 16, 2019, 10:58 Timmeh
 
I never heard of the Quinault Tribe until i started visiting Ocean Shores WA for vacation several years ago...

And then I discovered Sasquatch summit. A yearly Bigfoot Conference that started a few years back. Its held in November and hosted by the tribe at their casino. Been every year now for the last 5 years.

They have since started a paranormal UFO conference held in march.. not been to that one.
 
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4. Re: Valve Skin Gambling Lawsuit Apr 16, 2019, 10:16 mch
 
The question of whether or not lootboxes are gambling (and in need of regulation) aside, the Native American Quinault Tribal Nation doesn't deserve a fucking cent in "damages"  
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3. Re: Valve Skin Gambling Lawsuit Apr 16, 2019, 10:09 Cutter
 
Well they certainly have a good point. I wish them much success.

 
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"Ah, Impressionists, the boy bands of the art world." - Sideshow Bob
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2. Re: Valve Skin Gambling Lawsuit Apr 16, 2019, 09:51 mch
 
Hey Blue, I'm only seeing the 2016 story as a source here. Is there another for the more recent lawsuit?

Edit: I decided to not be lazy and look it up myself. Here's a story on it.

This comment was edited on Apr 16, 2019, 10:03.
 
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1. Re: Valve Skin Gambling Lawsuit Apr 16, 2019, 09:38 RedEye9
 
Since when was gambling considered gambling.  
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