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Out of the Blue

The annual Game Developers Conference gets underway today in San Francisco, so if the past is prologue and recent teasing is to be trusted, some new announcements should be rolling in. This is something we should get used to, as this more-or-less kicks off the spring/summer game convention season, and the dust from GDC will barely settle before next week's kickoff of PAX East. Time to call your bookie and make sure you've properly placed all your bets.

R.I.P.: Dick Dale, surf guitar pioneer, dies at 81.

Conventional Links: Thanks Ant.
Stories: How Parents Are Robbing Their Children of Adulthood. Thanks RedEye9.
To curb traffic, cities explore implementing congestion pricing during peak hours.
Science: The 90-year-old still dreaming of resurrecting a mammoth. Ignores chaos theory.
Spring to kick off with final supermoon of 2019. Worn Moon!
SpaceX tests heat shields that will stop its Starship from burning up.
This medieval astrolabe is officially world’s oldest known such instrument.
Media: This Dog's Terrible Agility Course Run Is The Most Delightful Thing You'll Watch This Week.
Earth at 2° hotter will be horrific. Now here’s 4° +.
Utility Pole Change Out.
Follow-up: How a 50-year-old design came back to haunt Boeing with its troubled 737 Max jet. Thanks RedEye9.

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35 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
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35. Re: Out of the Blue Mar 19, 2019, 16:51 RedEye9
 
jdreyer wrote on Mar 19, 2019, 14:30:
Mr. Tact wrote on Mar 19, 2019, 14:06:
MoreLuckThanSkill wrote on Mar 19, 2019, 13:48:
I'm really interested to see where this possible Justice Department investigation goes now, as to whether or not Trump ordered the FAA(or at least the DoT, with trickle down shit rolling) to rubber stamp the Max early. Even if he didn't, former Boeing executives are all over the upper FAA management now.

Ugh this is going to be even worse than I thought.
I wasn't thinking this because I thought the plane had been around prior to the Trump administration. But it turns out its first operational use was May 2017 with Malindo Air. Another thing to consider is, if I am not mistaken, there are many presidential nominated positions within the FAA which have never even received nominations. Did the lack of managerial bandwidth contribute to the problem?

This story/investigation is going to be around for a long time to come.

There hasn't been an FAA chief since tRump took office. Not sure how that might affect downstream workers.
Uh, there hasn't been a president since President Obama left office. what's your point..
 
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Filmmaker John Waters advice for elders: "Whenever any magazine says, 'What photographer do you want to shoot you?' I always just say, 'The one that has the biggest retouch budget!
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34. Re: Out of the Blue Mar 19, 2019, 14:30 jdreyer
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Mar 19, 2019, 14:06:
MoreLuckThanSkill wrote on Mar 19, 2019, 13:48:
I'm really interested to see where this possible Justice Department investigation goes now, as to whether or not Trump ordered the FAA(or at least the DoT, with trickle down shit rolling) to rubber stamp the Max early. Even if he didn't, former Boeing executives are all over the upper FAA management now.

Ugh this is going to be even worse than I thought.
I wasn't thinking this because I thought the plane had been around prior to the Trump administration. But it turns out its first operational use was May 2017 with Malindo Air. Another thing to consider is, if I am not mistaken, there are many presidential nominated positions within the FAA which have never even received nominations. Did the lack of managerial bandwidth contribute to the problem?

This story/investigation is going to be around for a long time to come.

There hasn't been an FAA chief since Trump took office. Not sure how that might affect downstream workers.
 
Avatar 22024
 
The land in Minecraft is flat, Minecraft simulates the Earth, ergo the Earth is flat.
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33. Re: Out of the Blue Mar 19, 2019, 14:06 Mr. Tact
 
MoreLuckThanSkill wrote on Mar 19, 2019, 13:48:
I'm really interested to see where this possible Justice Department investigation goes now, as to whether or not Trump ordered the FAA(or at least the DoT, with trickle down shit rolling) to rubber stamp the Max early. Even if he didn't, former Boeing executives are all over the upper FAA management now.

Ugh this is going to be even worse than I thought.
I wasn't thinking this because I thought the plane had been around prior to the Trump administration. But it turns out its first operational use was May 2017 with Malindo Air. Another thing to consider is, if I am not mistaken, there are many presidential nominated positions within the FAA which have never even received nominations. Did the lack of managerial bandwidth contribute to the problem?

This story/investigation is going to be around for a long time to come.
 
Truth is brutal. Prepare for pain.
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32. Re: Out of the Blue Mar 19, 2019, 13:48 MoreLuckThanSkill
 
RedEye9 wrote on Mar 18, 2019, 22:01:
Mr. Tact wrote on Mar 18, 2019, 19:24:
I want to say that from everything I've heard and read so far, it seems Boeing has been incredibly lucky things didn't go even more badly. However, that thought is tempered by the statistics of safe flights by this aircraft. I'm left wondering how much I don't know. Whatever the problem, and however much "blame" Boeing deserves, the entire subject from the design process to delivery of the plane requires a very careful and thorough investigation.
had you seen this
Flawed analysis, failed oversight: How Boeing, FAA certified the suspect 737 MAX
https://xkcd.com/2030/



Reading this and some other articles, it sounds like the inspection was indeed rushed. Funding cuts to government agencies like the FAA end up killing people. On top of that, potentially the B737 Max certification process may have been sped up by Trump, acting as some sort of B Movie villain yet again, re: cozy Boeing-Trump relationship

I'm really interested to see where this possible Justice Department investigation goes now, as to whether or not Trump ordered the FAA(or at least the DoT, with trickle down shit rolling) to rubber stamp the Max early. Even if he didn't, former Boeing executives are all over the upper FAA management now.

Ugh this is going to be even worse than I thought.
 
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31. Re: Out of the Blue Mar 19, 2019, 12:28 RedEye9
 
jdreyer wrote on Mar 18, 2019, 22:14:
They're about to re-engine the B-52, which is even older than the 737. Hope they take stuff like this into account.
That's a fixed fleet monetized by an endless bucket full of taxpayer moola, even with less than 10 crew onboard I doubt they'll skimp on the details.

 
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Filmmaker John Waters advice for elders: "Whenever any magazine says, 'What photographer do you want to shoot you?' I always just say, 'The one that has the biggest retouch budget!
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30. Re: Out of the Blue Mar 19, 2019, 00:29 Steele Johnson
 
Dick Dale, what a monster sound he got out of one string and a cheap amp. RIP  
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29. Re: Out of the Blue Mar 18, 2019, 22:14 jdreyer
 
They're about to re-engine the B-52, which is even older than the 737. Hope they take stuff like this into account.  
Avatar 22024
 
The land in Minecraft is flat, Minecraft simulates the Earth, ergo the Earth is flat.
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28. Re: Out of the Blue Mar 18, 2019, 22:03 Mr. Tact
 
Not that particular article, but I had previously read one containing mostly the same information. It seems likely things were less than kosher. But I'm not willing to jump to conclusions yet. I fear more than a specific effort to sneak this through, it was simply a system of flawed processes in place for a long time.  
Truth is brutal. Prepare for pain.
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27. Re: Out of the Blue Mar 18, 2019, 22:02 jdreyer
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Mar 18, 2019, 19:24:
I want to say that from everything I've heard and read so far, it seems Boeing has been incredibly lucky things didn't go even more badly. However, that thought is tempered by the statistics of safe flights by this aircraft. I'm left wondering how much I don't know. Whatever the problem, and however much "blame" Boeing deserves, the entire subject from the design process to delivery of the plane requires a very careful and thorough investigation.

The FAA needs to be called out as well for failing to address this.
 
Avatar 22024
 
The land in Minecraft is flat, Minecraft simulates the Earth, ergo the Earth is flat.
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26. Re: Out of the Blue Mar 18, 2019, 22:01 RedEye9
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Mar 18, 2019, 19:24:
I want to say that from everything I've heard and read so far, it seems Boeing has been incredibly lucky things didn't go even more badly. However, that thought is tempered by the statistics of safe flights by this aircraft. I'm left wondering how much I don't know. Whatever the problem, and however much "blame" Boeing deserves, the entire subject from the design process to delivery of the plane requires a very careful and thorough investigation.
had you seen this
Flawed analysis, failed oversight: How Boeing, FAA certified the suspect 737 MAX
https://xkcd.com/2030/


 
Avatar 58135
 
Filmmaker John Waters advice for elders: "Whenever any magazine says, 'What photographer do you want to shoot you?' I always just say, 'The one that has the biggest retouch budget!
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
25. Re: Out of the Blue Mar 18, 2019, 21:55 jdreyer
 
Beamer wrote on Mar 18, 2019, 12:46:
PHJF wrote on Mar 18, 2019, 11:42:
I had that same problem with the white background. Simply toggle Retro Colors on the left-hand menu and then switch back to New Blue.

My new-post-asterisk feature isn't working, though.

Yup, did that on my phone yesterday and it worked. Funny how many of us toggled styles on our own to fix, haha. Was the second thing I did.
Ah, so that's what that was.
 
Avatar 22024
 
The land in Minecraft is flat, Minecraft simulates the Earth, ergo the Earth is flat.
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24. Re: Out of the Blue Mar 18, 2019, 21:53 jdreyer
 
Blue wrote on Mar 18, 2019, 11:41:
Mr. Tact wrote on Mar 18, 2019, 11:36:
*ugh* Firefox broke something... when I use Firefox the site has a white background, but it appears normally when I use Chrome. *blah*

Sorry about that. This may be because of some actual changes being made on the back end here (yes, this is my first drip of hype about this).

It should clear up if you re-select a color style (new blue/retro colors) on the menu on the left.

Wait a second. "Changes?" I wasn't consulted on this. I think we need an offline discussion.

* jdreyer gets out of his van and knocks on the front door *

 
Avatar 22024
 
The land in Minecraft is flat, Minecraft simulates the Earth, ergo the Earth is flat.
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23. Re: Out of the Blue Mar 18, 2019, 19:24 Mr. Tact
 
I want to say that from everything I've heard and read so far, it seems Boeing has been incredibly lucky things didn't go even more badly. However, that thought is tempered by the statistics of safe flights by this aircraft. I'm left wondering how much I don't know. Whatever the problem, and however much "blame" Boeing deserves, the entire subject from the design process to delivery of the plane requires a very careful and thorough investigation.  
Truth is brutal. Prepare for pain.
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
22. Re: Boeing 737 Max - 50 year old design remnants Mar 18, 2019, 19:13 RedEye9
 
Tipsy McStagger wrote on Mar 18, 2019, 18:49:
MoreLuckThanSkill wrote on Mar 18, 2019, 11:24:
Oh great, after this article, all the armchair engineers will be out in force, posting everywhere that "OBVIOUSLY Boeing should have just done one simple thing and this never would have happened!" Not necessarily here of course, but I almost injured my neck, rolling my eyes so hard at the comments on the LAtimes page.

I don't even want to think about the kind of shit that's going to be said on cable news by non-engineers about the Max, Boeing, the FAA, etc. ugh.

Unfortunately, aircraft sometimes crash. Luckily, there is a pretty extensive system setup to investigate these crashes and find solutions for existing and future aircraft.

So I work in engineering and the biggest question I have is about HAZOP's (Hazard and Operability Assessment). It might be majorly different than oil and gas but I don't see how since we're doing billion dollar facilities here.

Anyways, the issue I have is how wasn't this talked about? I mean, something as simple of "Angle of Attack sensor is faulty, causing nose to pitch too low" is the hazard and then the protection layers you need to do this. First and foremost you must be able to have another layer of protection, which is typically a secondary angle of attack sensor. Then it would be the ability to override.. They obviously didn't look at this.

I think it's inexcusable to not have plain and simple overrides of this and put the control back into the pilots. Aviation is very complex engineering and I specialize in instrumentation for oil and gas so I'm not going to say I'm anywhere near an expert on the situation but it seems like an entire Layers of Protection Analysis was missing on this.
Boeing rushed this plane to market to save a buck in training and passed off the single sensor as being "okie dokie" because it was not an essential part that could bring down an aircraft.
Over 300 dead people later and it's beginning to look like that might not have been such a wise move.

Transportation Department Is Probing FAA’s Approval of Boeing’s 737 MAX DOT inspector general is examining potential failures in the agency’s safety-review process - wall street journal link or outline.com version https://outline.com/pBYSWt

snippets;
To win customers, and avoid more defections to Airbus, Boeing also made commitments that there would be minimal requirements for new pilot training, which can be costly to airlines, especially if expensive flight-simulator sessions are needed, according to people familiar with the matter. So Boeing tried to minimize differences from its existing fleet. Pilots were never specifically trained, for instance, on the MCAS system, according to people familiar with the matter.

During some of the discussions with the FAA, according to people familiar with the matter, Boeing’s team persuaded the agency that the system shouldn’t be considered so essential that its failure could result in a catastrophic accident. As a result, it would be acceptable for the system to rely on a single sensor.

Rick Ludtke, a former Boeing flight deck design engineer who worked on the MAX but wasn’t directly involved with the MCAS system, said managers applied significant pressure to keep costs low and timetables quick.
A former senior Boeing official recalled a “healthy urgency that comes from competition” in producing the MAX, but no “undue pressure on the design or the team.”

 
Avatar 58135
 
Filmmaker John Waters advice for elders: "Whenever any magazine says, 'What photographer do you want to shoot you?' I always just say, 'The one that has the biggest retouch budget!
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
21. Re: Boeing 737 Max - 50 year old design remnants Mar 18, 2019, 18:49 Tipsy McStagger
 
MoreLuckThanSkill wrote on Mar 18, 2019, 11:24:
Oh great, after this article, all the armchair engineers will be out in force, posting everywhere that "OBVIOUSLY Boeing should have just done one simple thing and this never would have happened!" Not necessarily here of course, but I almost injured my neck, rolling my eyes so hard at the comments on the LAtimes page.

I don't even want to think about the kind of shit that's going to be said on cable news by non-engineers about the Max, Boeing, the FAA, etc. ugh.

Unfortunately, aircraft sometimes crash. Luckily, there is a pretty extensive system setup to investigate these crashes and find solutions for existing and future aircraft.

So I work in engineering and the biggest question I have is about HAZOP's (Hazard and Operability Assessment). It might be majorly different than oil and gas but I don't see how since we're doing billion dollar facilities here.

Anyways, the issue I have is how wasn't this talked about? I mean, something as simple of "Angle of Attack sensor is faulty, causing nose to pitch too low" is the hazard and then the protection layers you need to do this. First and foremost you must be able to have another layer of protection, which is typically a secondary angle of attack sensor. Then it would be the ability to override.. They obviously didn't look at this.

I think it's inexcusable to not have plain and simple overrides of this and put the control back into the pilots. Aviation is very complex engineering and I specialize in instrumentation for oil and gas so I'm not going to say I'm anywhere near an expert on the situation but it seems like an entire Layers of Protection Analysis was missing on this.
 
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20. Re: Out of the Blue Mar 18, 2019, 18:31 Kxmode
 
Your zen moment with An American Tail: Never Say Never featuring Christopher Plummer singing in a French accent.

This comment was edited on Mar 18, 2019, 18:50.
 
Avatar 18786
 
William Shakespeare's "Star Wars" Act I, Scene 1: Aboard the rebel ship. / Enter C-3PO and R2-D2. / C-3PO: "Now is the summer of our happiness / Made winter by this sudden, fierce attack!" / R2-D2 — Beep beep, Beep, beep, meep, squeak, beep, whee!
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19. Re: Out of the Blue Mar 18, 2019, 18:29 Kxmode
 
Blue wrote on Mar 18, 2019, 14:39:
Kxmode wrote on Mar 18, 2019, 13:36:
That's a lot of hops!

Texas must use the system they use in Russia. I bought a watch bezel recently from Russia. Here's what happened to my package before it finally officially entered the USPS system:

TIL Texas is Russia
 
Avatar 18786
 
William Shakespeare's "Star Wars" Act I, Scene 1: Aboard the rebel ship. / Enter C-3PO and R2-D2. / C-3PO: "Now is the summer of our happiness / Made winter by this sudden, fierce attack!" / R2-D2 — Beep beep, Beep, beep, meep, squeak, beep, whee!
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18. Re: Out of the Blue Mar 18, 2019, 18:00 RedEye9
 
Burrito of Peace wrote on Mar 18, 2019, 17:39:
RedEye9 wrote on Mar 18, 2019, 13:27:
Argh!
Ready for UPS
2080RTX?
he heh, I wish.
 
Avatar 58135
 
Filmmaker John Waters advice for elders: "Whenever any magazine says, 'What photographer do you want to shoot you?' I always just say, 'The one that has the biggest retouch budget!
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
17. Re: Out of the Blue Mar 18, 2019, 17:39 Burrito of Peace
 
RedEye9 wrote on Mar 18, 2019, 13:27:
Argh! Originally scheduled for Friday, now Tuesday. whee
In Transit 03/18/2019 3:49 A.M. New Orleans, LA
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Ready for UPS

2080RTX?
 
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16. Re: Dog on the obstacle course Mar 18, 2019, 15:59 1badmf
 
Creston wrote on Mar 18, 2019, 15:18:
I literally lol'ed when he ran into the tunnel and just laid down at the end of it.

goodest boy ever imo.
 
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