Creston wrote on May 15, 2017, 10:54:
I just now realized that, when I got around to reading the article. Hehe. :-oops-:

Wow talk about being part of the problem Creston! Why don't you actually read stuff before commenting...

Kosumo wrote on Dec 17, 2013, 15:46:
What make you think they can write better netcode than Crytek?

Who working on Star Citizen (and Squadren 42 - at the same time!) has released any games in the last 10 years?

What makes you think Crytek's netcode is actually good? What makes you think netcode for a FPS is good for space ship combat?

Stick and Rudder: How to be an informed Star Citizen

Try reading that article and get a little informed about CIG before spewing a bunch of bullshit. You will see there are multiple studios and contractors working on the game around the world that have worked on other successful projects, not a single small group of novice developers. The same people working on the single player aren't also working 100% on the multiplayer portion either...

Stormsinger wrote on Dec 17, 2013, 15:12:
Not quite...the long story in short form is they promised it in December, "no matter what". And didn't deliver...no matter how you want to spin it.

Remember, I did say I understood the reasoning. But to make a public promise and fail at it is still a flop, no matter the reasoning. It's poor management and worse PR.

I was trying to keep it as simple as possible, but yes I suppose they promised the dogfighting module in December. They also at around the same time mentioned their concern with the existing netcode and that it wouldn't offer the experience they were originally wanting.

Failing on an alpha/beta promise isn't so much a bad PR thing. How many times have other games with publicly released alphas and betas went past their promised dates? How many times have those alphas and betas been utterly awful and caused a shit storm in themselves. I think they did the right decision on this one, of course everyone won't agree and you can't make everyone happy. People will complain no matter what really and if a company wants to take the time to release a more solid tester to it's valued customers then I am all about that. People have put a lot of money and faith on the line for this game and CIG wants to do right by their customers and put out a better product then they originally were going to release. I think PR wise that goes a long more way then rushing out some thing most people wouldn't be happy with just to appease the masses.

Wildone wrote on Dec 17, 2013, 15:01:
Seems kinda like something you would have planned out 6 mos before the release of the module, not reach the deadline then decide. lol failed

Yes because they knew 6 months ago they were going to rake in 4-5 million in November and even more before that... But yes they actually probably knew that far out it might happen if they managed to get the funding they needed. They already knew they were going to have to rewrite the networking they just didn't know exactly when, they atleast knew they had more then a year or more to do it before the final product shipped. You fortunately have the advantage of hindsight after the fact, they didn't... When is the last time you managed a multi-million dollar project and got everything just right and perfect? There are lots of projects that get funding cut late in development or receive more funds towards the end from investors. They just didn't think they would do as well funding wise and planned accordingly for it.

Stormsinger wrote on Dec 17, 2013, 14:50:
So let me see if I have this straight now. You're saying that as of a month and a half before the deadline -they- had set, they hadn't even decided what engine they were going to use?

Okay there seems to be quite a bit of confusion in this thread... ENGINE is not the same as NETCODE, which is what they are referring to in this article.

Game Engine from Wikipedia:

"A game engine is a system designed for the creation and development of video games. The leading game engines provide a software framework that developers use to create games for video game consoles, mobile devices and personal computers. The core functionality typically provided by a game engine includes a rendering engine (“renderer”) for 2D or 3D graphics, a physics engine or collision detection (and collision response), sound, scripting, animation, artificial intelligence, networking, streaming, memory management, threading, localization support, and a scene graph. The process of game development is often economized, in large part, by reusing/adapting the same game engine to create different games, or to make it easier to "port" games to multiple platforms."

The NETWORKING or we shall say NETCODE is what is being rewritten to better support ship to ship combat. Crytek ENGINE NETWORKING was designed with FPS combat in mind and was already planned to be scraped and rewritten a while ago because it wasn't up to snuff. However they wanted to release the dogfighting module in December so they could use that to bring in more developmental money and were going to be stuck releasing it with the existing NETWORKING that didn't work so well for their space game. Since they recently received a large amount of funds they don't need to rush out the module now to gain new funding. So since they now have the money they want to delay the module so they can release it with the proper NETWORKING they originally didn't have the necessary money to do. Is that clear enough now?

Long story short; they were going to release the module to get more money but they got more money elsewhere and now can release the proper module they originally wanted to put out, hence the delay...

Beelzebud wrote on Dec 17, 2013, 14:21:
So wait. I don't follow this closely, so fill me in. They paid for the Cry Engine just to do mock-ups, and are now going to code their own custom engine for it?

If so, yikes....

No... They are using the Crytek engine to render for the game and some of the components like FPS combat for player vs player. The existing netcode just sucks balls and wouldn't work well for what they need to do for space combat. Ships jumping all over the place, ship lag, hits that look like they hit but actually missing server side, crap like that. So instead of releasing a module using that existing Crytek netcode they are rewriting it from scratch with the actual system they would use in the final end product. So instead of releasing the DFM and having to throw away that code anyways they are delaying for a couple of months to bring us actual product instead of some halfassed tech demo. So we get the pretty of the Crytek engine but with a backend that makes the game actually playable..

Slinkycatz wrote on Dec 17, 2013, 12:35:
What CR said is that the initial approach was to use the "Crysis engine running a virtual Star Citizen in space demo" to bring in more visibility to the game as to what is possible, which would bring in more funding. This would be code he would have to throw away because it would be useless in the final build of Star Citizen.

After getting much more attention and money for the game than he anticipated, he decided that he could skip this part and focus on actually building the Star Citizen dogfighting module from scratch instead.

This is how you get "proceeding faster" leading to "delaying this module". In the long run they've saved time by skipping the demo, in the short run it means no instant gratification with the DFM.

^ This.. I'd rather have them release the dogfighting module with the actual backend they plan to use. Otherwise any bug testing and anything else they might gain from using the existing Crytek code is a waste of time really. Most of us that are following the game knew this months ago how they wanted to revamp the backend and it might cause a delay in the DFM. I mean seriously why does it really matter? Big whoop we can't blow each other out of the sky for a couple of months, that is one component of SC and not the only one everyone is buying the game for. God knows how vicious people are for alpha/beta builds too, they pretty much had to get it right as much as possible because of how much people have been talking shit about them. If anyone is to blame it's yourself for forcing them to rethink quality wise how they release each part, and in the end I think overall it's the better choice so thank you! I am sure most people will only spend a couple of hours playing the DFM and get bored quickly and move on to something else. So yeah much smarter to not waste time reinventing the game all over again so some people can have their instant gratification.

Played a lot of DayZ; died a lot and killed a lot. The problem I have with the DayZ SA is they are concentrating too much on the stuff that doesn't matter to most people. DayZ mod you had a can of food you could eat it right away and be on your way. DayZ SA you got a can of food but now you need a can opener to open it and then you can eat it. So while you are dicking around trying to open a can of food in a building someone is lining up their pistol or gun to your forehead, boom you are dead... DayZ mod has matches and firewood and other stuff too but it wasn't the main focus of the game. Compass requires you to de-equip your main weapon last video I saw, but once you have played enough, compasses and maps don't matter much anymore; you know were to go. Items wear down, items you don't really get to hold on to anyway. So they have taken the fast paced PvP action most people like and added a bunch of mundane stuff most people don't really care about.

Plus now they have been dragging their feet so long releasing DayZ SA there are mods of DayZ mod with much much more stuff and addons going on that are just plain better and more fun. Take Epoch for example; money you can use to buy weapons/vehicles/etc at traders. Items you can use to build your own bases and stake a claim on an area. Randomly generated AI missions for loot and gear. Vaults, vehicle keys, and door locks to secure your items from others so you can reequip and get right back into the action when you die. $10 for Arma II with more stuff vs $30 for DayZ SA that still isn't finished.

I had high hopes for DayZ SA but it just seems like they are concentrating on the stuff most people don't really want and quite frankly they have missed the boat for a big hit. People will still buy it though and I hope it turns out to be fun for everyone but currently I don't see a real good reason to bother with it over the much better DayZ mod mods.

Another worthless piece of plastic that will be sitting on your desk because it doesn't work well in the games you play or it strains your eyes too much that you'll only be able to use it for a couple of hours. It'll be a shitty overpriced display with crappy refresh rates that just make everything look awful and stretched out. Fools and their money for useless gadgets that don't really bring a lot to the table. It'll collect dust and you'll just keep telling yourself that some major game or something else will came out that eventually takes full advantage of it, but it won't. Otherwise you'll just be looked at like an idiot with a piece of head gear on twirling your head around like a moron.

SC isn't really P2W. Sure you can spend $1000+ on a huge ship with all kinds of bells and whistles but that's not going to stop someone from using their much cheaper in-game bought bomber to explode your ass... Heck the large ships are going to be much less maneuverable so without a good crew or wingman protecting you you'll probably be in big trouble against enemies anyway.

These aren't premium ships either that can only be bought with real money, everything can be bought in-game so everyone can get whatever ships they want. Hell the best components for your ship will come from in-game, not stock from the store. Even the Lifetime Insurance isn't so much a big deal just nice and convenient. You will still be able to insure you ship anyways except it's going to cost you some in-game credits. How much we don't know yet but they said it wasn't too much, you can probably easily do a few missions to cover 6 months of insurance.

No I didn't spend any additional money upgrading my ship during the sales. I was hoping they'd release new MISC Freelancer variants but they already mentioned they will be selling ship upgrades to modify your existing ship so you can keep your LTI after the Nov 26th cutoff date. So I've only got $120 into the game so far that I can easily lose. I've already wasted $50 on the pile of shit X: Rebirth game everyone said was going to be so great.. So I'm not worried about SC because I know they got more funding then that half finished POS X: Rebirth.

Well if you have been actually following the game... You would know Nov 26th is their anniversary date and they have been offering special limited ships sales up until that point this whole last week. It's also the date when Lifetime Insurance LTI will no longer be offered on bought ships.. So yeah people just getting their last bits of ships and configurations... Don't forget that tinfoil hat!

Had to unplug my joystick to get the mouse cursor to work. I guess there are issues with multiple controllers connected that use mouse emulation... Not sure if it's using both my 6870s in crossfire using the latest beta drivers either. I'm getting like 14-35 fps at 1920x1200 depending on if I'm looking at a space city/lots of ships or not. AMD 1090t OCed to 3.8ghz and most of the 6 cores don't get over 70% usage really. I noticed some of the effects for the asteroids blended into the GUI like when I was viewing the encyclopedia too. Obviously some performance issues so far and some graphical glitches. The inside of stations seems to be pretty cookie cutter for the couple of stations I docked with. Had some issues trying to dogfight the first 2 drones you got to kill, they were all over the place and very hard to hit. I finally got used to it but I can tell I'll have to do some control tweaking. Only crash I've gotten so far was when I loaded a save game and I haven't been able to repeat it since. Otherwise I am having fun but really the low FPS is making it not so smooth and annoying. Hopefully I don't have to lower my settings too much.

All preloaded and ready to go! I picked up the X3 series from a Humble Bundle a few months back but I felt pretty overwhelmed starting it so I've been waiting for X Rebirth to come out to start on that instead. Depending on the controls I was thinking of using a wired X360 controller and outputting to my TV so I can sit back and relax.

You have up to 18 months to do a chargeback and dispute a credit card charge on your account. There are multiple reason codes (service not as advertised, etc.) and each one requires different requirements for processing. Once a chargeback has been placed against the merchant the funds are removed instantly from their accounts and held until the dispute is resolved. The dispute will be taken to the issuing card's arbitrators and they will see if you met all the requirements to process the card. If the merchant doesn't 100% exactly meet those requirements for processing they will lose the dispute and the money will be given back to the card holder minus a $20-$30 chargeback processing fee that is always charged to the merchant no matter if you lose or win. If the customer loses they have the option to do a second time chargeback and it will cost the merchant upwards of $500 to send it back again to the same arbitrators for another review. It's quite common for the merchant to "give up" at this point because it's pretty stupid to pay $500 to get $50 dollars back. Even if the merchant wins they will still get charged the chargeback processing fee...

BTW I used to work for a credit card company and dealt with this everyday talking directly to the merchants. The system is broken and is setup to rip off the merchant at all costs. I would never accept a credit card unless I could physically swipe the magnetic stripe, verify the identity of the card holder by ID, take a carbon copy of the card, a photocopy of their license, and video tape surveillance showing their face. Even then that's not 100% fool proof. It's way too easy to rip off merchants on technicalities alone. Even if you collect and process the transaction properly there is still a very good chance you will lose anyway. The credit card companies don't care about the merchants they rip off just that their card holders continue to use their cards and pay the interest to them. All those frequent flyer miles and cash back and award point programs you have on your card, guess who is paying for those? That's right the merchant is.. But merchants continue to take credit cards because they would lose too much business otherwise. If I was a store owner I would take cash only and put an ATM inside for people to get cash to use.

HorrorScope wrote on Nov 5, 2013, 17:59:
Fine then, get it off our screens.

So basically what I am gathering here is that people are tired of hearing about Star Citizen and they want to complain about seeing the articles and not actually about the game itself. Okay great nothing is making you read the articles or post in the comments. This is a gaming website so of course you are going to see articles about games. Games that you or I might not be interested in at all, I usually just don't click on them. You can always make your own website and I would be more then happy to visit your perfect little gaming world. Frankly I think Blue needs to post more Star Citizen articles on the site. With all the people foaming at the mouth with their love/hate of the game, hitting the page multiple times a day, that's got to be quite a bit of advertising revenue generated.

As I said previously, I am a investor so I am taking a chance by giving my money to them. Which I am totally okay with loosing at this point since I have actually played their previous older games and enjoyed them heavily. I never said this was going to be the end all awesome game of the century. I just said I wanted to play a good space sim which most publishers have no interest in producing because they don't make absorbent amounts of return money from them. I have played plenty of niche space games that some would consider to be "stupid" and had plenty of fun in them. A lot of those games I wish they could've had the money behind them because there was so much potential lost because of it.

There won't be any winners here in this argument and I already know this is a loosing battle to even bother posting in the first place, but I am bored today and feeling a little feisty. So I'll leave it at that. You are free to say whatever you want, but seriously why spend so much effort on something your not even interested in?

Creston wrote on Nov 5, 2013, 17:04:
Cool story, bro. Please give us the specs on your PC as well, as we're all TOTALLY interested in hearing about it. What kinda car do you drive? Does it come with the chrome 17 inch rims????

I drive an average 1998 older stock car with nothing special (it's actually wrecked atm from someone hitting me within the last 2 weeks). My PC is nothing special either, just 2 years old 2010 technology bought and made from generating Bitcoins. Sorry to burst your bubble there BRO, I am not rich... Any other personal attacks you want to make that are uninformed or can we focus on the game instead?

Sorry you didn't like my little back story either, UMADBRO? I was showing I actually have a commitment to the success of the game and that I have been following it. This is a gaming website right? Heavens forbid we talk about video games on it... How about a constructive comment next time instead of the usual drivel I see you spewing all the time. I could really give two shits if you don't like the game or not it's not going to effect me, the game is still going to be made and I am going to enjoy the hell out of it. You however seem to be so mad this game is being made you can't just let it go. How does this game effect you at all? Are you just tired of seeing the news articles? This is a gaming news website not your own personal shitshow..

edit: corrected a misspelled word

This comment was edited on Nov 5, 2013, 18:44.

Wow for people that aren't even interested in playing the game you sure are hard pressed to lambast it. Like a bunch of chicken littles saying the sky is falling the sky is falling!

Big whoop people want to give money (invest) to play a game they actually want to play. Not the same rehashed CoD EA Sports 20XX game they put out every year. Plenty of people gave money for Minecraft Alpha and I thought that was a pretty shitty game really even after all the updates. But hey if you want to keep giving money to EA and all the other shills for the same rehashed crap every year that is your choice too. Keep swallowing that pill and going with the status quo, DIFFERENT THINGS BAD!.. Since when did a game investor give two shits about the actual game, it's only about how much money they get back in a timely manner. These are the people that are deciding what the industry produces, and as you can see it's utter crap on a grand scale these days.

Nothing is forcing you to buy a ship now and you will have a ship that you will be able to use from the beginning to make money with. You can even take out a loan from the UEE if you can't afford a ship once you leave military service. Granted it may take you 20 hours playing to buy a MISC Freelancer vs paying for one at $120 now. The only bonus you get is the Lifetime Insurance on the hull and basic components you will be upgrading anyway, so you will need to buy a small amount of additional insurance for that. Besides you will be going through the Squadron 42 single player before even getting to the multiplayer part and in the single player you will have a fully decked out military hornet to play with. So right off the bat you should be able to have plenty of fun for coming to the party late..

Frankly I can't wait for this to come out and for everyone to eat their own words because right now you all just look like a bunch of whiny babies going out of their way to criticize something they aren't even interested in playing. And hey if it falls through (which I highly doubt) then I will happily say I took a chance on something I believed in. Anyone not investing in this game really isn't a PC gamer as far as I am concerned and your opinion really doesn't matter. Most of the kids these days wouldn't know a good game if it hit them in the face, it's only about brand brand brand on console xyz! I can slap a brand name on any piece of shit and you guys would gladly gobble it up.

As far as all the money getting pushed into this game it's pretty simple really. We were all PC Gamers as kids and had fond memories of Wing Commander, Privateer, Xwing, and various other space sims that we loved. Now we are all grown up and have jobs and money that we can contribute to whatever we want and we want Star Citizen! It's all about buying power and we believe CR is the guy that will deliver what we want. Even if it's a rehashed better version of Freelancer/Wing Commander/Privateer I would be happy with that.

FYI I originally had the 300i package for $60 and upgraded to the MISC Freelancer $120 package after 5 months. I'll also probably buy an additional 325A package for $70 so I can have an extra character slot for my NPC wingman to cover me on those long hauls. Either that or I will just wait and buy another character slot for like $15-20 when the game comes out and use my free Mustang starter ship from the $28 million stretch goal for the NPC wingman. BF4 (BF3.5) costs what? $60 for the base game and another $60 for their premium service, yeah screw that. I am basically putting my gaming money for the year into a single game. Oh noes I might have to cut back on pizza and beer...

In other words, there is no segmentation of the community when we launch the base game.

Or in other words, most game servers won't run Karkand in their map rotations as it will kill their population everytime the map cycles to it... I am sure there will be plenty of 24/7 Karkand Only servers available at launch.

i'll give it a whirl

Isn't that how it works now? A rival corp invades your area and blows up your ships and takes your stuff? The "working over" I am referring to is the game devs cheating and the various other scandals that have taken place that effect everyone. I will say however one of my first experiences in EVE Online was just about that. A rival corp camping our HQ killing anyone that left the station... Granted this was in the beta so a lot has changed since then. I actually enjoyed the game but I found the combat to be unresponsive and lacking..