User information for Mvw

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January 30, 2021
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6 Comments. 1 pages. Viewing page 1.
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Re: Quoteworthy
Aug 8, 2022, 21:47
Re: Quoteworthy Aug 8, 2022, 21:47
Aug 8, 2022, 21:47
While i see many people argue here about how Epic is great for indies, but I wonder how great it is for other KS projects with there being a realistic threat that the backing promises are broken/altered for extra funding. If the trend of Epic poaching KS projects continues, I would imagine it's going to get a lot harder for indies to find the initial backing they need to get into the situation where they can get a deal from Epic.
Re: Valve Appeals Geo-Blocking Fine
Jun 15, 2021, 16:52
Re: Valve Appeals Geo-Blocking Fine Jun 15, 2021, 16:52
Jun 15, 2021, 16:52
Cutter wrote on Jun 15, 2021, 13:09:
El Pit wrote on Jun 15, 2021, 11:53:
I hope they lose and will have to pay a few billion $$$. They need to learn that either they believe in their ONE WORLD idea or they don't. Believing in it only if it does not harm your profit is ridiculous and actually a blow to the whole idea. I love it when rich people say "WE ARE ONE PEOPLE" only to instantly change this opinion when it comes to selling their products.

That's a pretty apt assessment. It's so completely arbitrary. So in some countries where the dollar is less than the US they get deep discounts, but in others - like us and Aus - we have to pay more. Fuck that noise.

Imo, it's not really that arbitrary, it's generally based on market, income & general wealth studies & experimentation. If they would sell a 60$ game in a country where people on average make 300$/month,it just won't sell because people can't afford it as it'd be a choice between paying for rent & food or a game. Piracy of said game would be through the roof in those countries, that's why they're generally lowering prices with lower average incomes & often higher piracy rates like Russia or eastern europe or many asian countries.
Better to earn something instead of nothing.

That said, among the better faring countries Aus & UK have been getting screwed on game prices for a long time, i remember then being the case more than a decade ago.

Let's not forget that the game publishers/developers set the prices, not Steam/GOG/EGS or brick & mortar stores. Those publishers are the ones screwing you if you're looking for someone to get angry at. Valve is getting fined here because they're facilitating to those publishers that want the geo blocking and rightly so when they're breaking the law doing that.
I think the main reason that they're appealing the fine is because they don't want to have that precedent that opens the floodgates for more fines/scrutiny.
Re: Evening Interviews
May 9, 2021, 17:27
Re: Evening Interviews May 9, 2021, 17:27
May 9, 2021, 17:27
jdreyer wrote on May 9, 2021, 14:52:
Verno wrote on May 9, 2021, 14:37:
Instead of getting mad that I'm invoking Godwin's law, why not refute my points?

It's a shitty thing that you keep doing on purpose and you know better, that's why.

I'm using hyperbole to point out the absurdity of defending Steam's practices. I apologize for using it in my response to you, as you gave a more nuanced argument. Some of the other posters simply give a full-throated defense of Steam, which is ridiculous. Steam is not their friend. Valve's goal is to get as much of their money as possible, and this MFN rule of theirs is part of it. They should be angry that Steam artificially keeps prices high by preventing price competition. Instead, they defend it. It makes no sense.

I'm just wondering why you're so set on riling people up on getting angry at Valve/Steam for allegedly keeping prices high without any proof. As far as I've found there's no actual realeased version of this allegde MFN/price parity. The only documentation i found was for use of Steam keys to sell on other platforms. In which they say you can't use the keys, where Valve doens't get a cut, to offer a lower price than Steam itself. Which is a price that the developers/publishers themselves choose.
Steam key docs

Considering the prices of EGS exclusives are similar to what the games would cost on Steam, the argument of high price fixing seems weird as well. On top of that big publishers have increased the prices of games on PC to 60$ and now 70$ and have in the past stated that lowering said prices would cheapens their intellectual property.

In a similar lawsuit filed earlier this year something similar was claimed, while arguing that it's more of a problem that lowering prices on other platforms would force them to lower prices on steam which cuts too much in their share of the revenue. So it's less an MFN for keeping prices high and more of an MFN that forces prices on Steam to be same as the lowest offered. The fact that they included quotes from Tim Sweeney about price fixing gives it less validity imo.
Re: Evening Interviews
May 8, 2021, 04:52
Re: Evening Interviews May 8, 2021, 04:52
May 8, 2021, 04:52
jdreyer wrote on May 8, 2021, 03:13:
I really fail to understand how all these people raised in the West with our long tradition of free market competition are actually defending a defacto monopoly like Steam. Perhaps large swaths of the country converted to Fascism or Communism and their preferences for state-controlled monopolies while I was busy raising a family and gaming?

The only reason Steam's "most favored nation" status is remotely enforceable is because the have 75% of the market. Unless you're Blizzard or backed by megabillion dollar corporations like Tencent or Facebook, you *have* to be on Steam or you'll go under. If Steam was 10% of the market, there's no way they could enforce that.

Maybe because the alternative this 'free market' leads to is more like Amazon. Where a single company uses it's billions to stifle competition in an attempt to become the monopoly. This by for example selling products at a loss, something Epic has already hinted at to be willing to do and has to some extend already done this through a sale without consent from the devs where the explanation was that Epic would still pay the full price revenue to the devs.
While you claim Steam is the defacto monopoly, the price deal provides air to competition, we've seen plenty of other stores pop up like GOG, greenman gaming, humble store, Epic store. It allows stores to differentiate themselves on service level instead of trying to stifle competition, which in my opinion is more of a free market.

Another reason is that people have a vested interest in certain stores due to the games they have bought on that store and where the license is stored on that store's servers. So if the store was to go under, people would possibly lose access to their games. This is a problem with how the stores have evolved. Even for GOG which offers DRM free copies of games, if you don't have the storage to store all of them, you're dependent on the store.
Re: Valve Sued Over Steam Pricing
Jan 31, 2021, 18:23
Re: Valve Sued Over Steam Pricing Jan 31, 2021, 18:23
Jan 31, 2021, 18:23
El Pit wrote on Jan 30, 2021, 10:25:
RedEye9 wrote on Jan 30, 2021, 09:41:
The Half Elf wrote on Jan 30, 2021, 09:36:
El Pit wrote on Jan 30, 2021, 03:49:
The Half Elf wrote on Jan 30, 2021, 03:22:
Read the first page of the lawsuit and see who else is being sued...

Valve, CD Project, Ubisoft, kChamp Games (?), Rust, Devolver Digital

I guess EGS, EA, Blizzard, and the others are safe. Dodged a bullet there, guys!

Yeah it's a bit bizarre. Not to name EA and Activision...
Since this is obviously a false flag by the epic games store they were �ber alles foolish for not adding themselves to the sued list.
Talk about a major hydrogenated face palm.

So, you think it is a conspiracy of EGS, EA, ActiBilzz, and a few others? And maybe the child-eating reptile aliens? Yes, now it all makes sense!

Just EGS, because they've litterally tried this before by doing store specific sales on games without informing the devs and stating they'd just make up the diference from their own pocket.
EGS clearly stands to gain a lot from it. They've proven multiple times that they don't mind running at a loss to stomp out the competition and trying to become a monopoly like Amazon has been doing.

ActiBlizz doesn't sell on steam anymore so i doubt they care and EA moved back to steam because Origin wasn't doing well enough.
Re: Valve Sued Over Steam Pricing
Jan 30, 2021, 05:19
Re: Valve Sued Over Steam Pricing Jan 30, 2021, 05:19
Jan 30, 2021, 05:19
It's almost af is some companies want to sell their own games on their own platforms for 80%-90% of the price they sell it for on steam and other well used stores. Nice way of trying to make more revenue while still selling your game on the big stores.

"The Steam MFN also hinders innovation by creating an artificial barrier to entry for platforms," adds the complaint. "When a market, such as this one, is highly concentrated, a new entrant can benefit consumers by undercutting the incumbent’s prices. The ability to provide PC games to consumers at lower prices is one way a firm or new entrant could gain market share. If this market functioned properly—that is, if the Steam MFN did not exist and platforms were able to compete on price—platforms competing with Steam would be able to provide the same (or higher) margins to game developers while simultaneously providing lower prices to consumers."
This section makes me feel like the EGS is sponsoring someone to fight their battle this time instead of getting into another legal battle themselves.
This entire lawsuit seems to be the preamble of more anti consumer practices like what the EGS has been doing with it's store exclusives.

This might also make the lives of indie devs a lot worse if they have to deal with platforms devalueing their games into the ground just like what we see in giant market chains where they decide how much they pay for a product en pressure farmers for example to sell at a loss or not sell at all.
More rampant capitalism & exploitation seems like the last thing the gaming industry needs.
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