User information for Kevin Andrew Stich

Real Name
Kevin Andrew Stich
Nickname
Steazy
Email
Concealed by request - Send Mail
Description
I'm supa old school, but BluesNews doesn't recognize my attbi.com as a valid ISP anymore
Signed On
July 19, 2012
Supporter
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Total Posts
142 (Novice)
User ID
57499
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142 Comments. 8 pages. Viewing page 5.
Newer [  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  8  ] Older
47.
 
Re: SAG-AFTRA Picketing EA Today
Oct 25, 2016, 13:39
47.
Re: SAG-AFTRA Picketing EA Today Oct 25, 2016, 13:39
Oct 25, 2016, 13:39
 
jdreyer wrote on Oct 24, 2016, 22:56:
@ Steazy. No crucifixion. I agree with much of what you say.

A. I agree game devs are the hardest working lowest compensated devs in the software industry. It shouldn't be tolerated "because games. " If anyone was ripe for unionization, it's game devs. Let's not blame VAs for that.

B. That's why this strike is happening, to negotiate hazard pay into the standard contract. A single voice actor alone doesn't have the leverage. But working together in union (see what I did there?) the can get that protection as standard.

Whoa, you read what I wrote? Crazy.

I guess I'm just irrationally afraid that this action is going to make it much harder for game devs to effectively unionize by reducing the size of the pie available for the people putting a lot more hours into these projects.

I see now that it's very reasonable to argue the reverse - that if the voice actors can get their demands met, that could set a good precedent for other professionals in the industry.
40.
 
Re: SAG-AFTRA Picketing EA Today
Oct 24, 2016, 21:11
40.
Re: SAG-AFTRA Picketing EA Today Oct 24, 2016, 21:11
Oct 24, 2016, 21:11
 
Yes, someone always has it worse. Child workers being whipped to death don't exactly have the freedom to go work for another company, in another media, or in another industry though so I think you can only reasonably carry that argument so far.

But for sake of argument I'll concede those points.

I'm not trying to argue "Some other people have it just as bad or worse, so you're not allowed to ask for anything until they get theirs."

I'm saying, that *literally* everyone else in a "working class" roll (excluding CEO's, execs, directors of whatever) in the games industry has it worse. VA's already have a comparably cushy gig *because* they have a powerful union that can push the industry around. I don't think it's reasonable to expect comparably powerful unions to form around other disciplines in any reasonable amount of time (look how long SAG has been around).

I would like to see the state of the games industry improve before 2050, when programmer and game designer unions as powerful as SAG would likely come to be, based on historical observation. I think trying to change things discipline by discipline in the games industry is a very selfish way to go about it. Most workers in gaming do not have that option, now or in the foreseeable future.

Everyone knows there are systemic problems ruining the industry, and it's not because one particular type of worker is being exploited. It's because they all are. The wrong people (execs) are rewarded when things go well, and the wrong people (workers) are punished when things go poorly. Hmmm, wait, I think someone else has said that before

All in all I suppose it's good that they are at least raising awareness of the issue. Looking at their list of target companies I definitely don't have any sympathy for the corporations. Indie gaming is real, so there's at least some hope for improvement through other avenues.


But seriously, everyone I've ever worked with would kill for 4 day work week, and royalties? Holy fucking shit they'd all be retired making indie games for Steam That would be awesome.
38.
 
Re: SAG-AFTRA Picketing EA Today
Oct 24, 2016, 20:21
38.
Re: SAG-AFTRA Picketing EA Today Oct 24, 2016, 20:21
Oct 24, 2016, 20:21
 
NKD wrote on Oct 24, 2016, 19:53:

As to your bizarre BLM reference, you are basically All Lives Matter at this point. "Why isn't this black advocacy group ALSO advocating for WHITE PEOPLE who have it rough????!?!!" Because it's not their fucking job. If you try to advocate for everyone, you'll accomplish nothing. This is why industries have separate unions and it's not all just one big workers advocacy group.

Sorry, I can't follow your logic here. The group that works the least, has a powerful union backing them, and wants more than everyone else is the one being overworked and overlooked? I think you got that backwards buddy.
37.
 
Re: SAG-AFTRA Picketing EA Today
Oct 24, 2016, 20:18
37.
Re: SAG-AFTRA Picketing EA Today Oct 24, 2016, 20:18
Oct 24, 2016, 20:18
 
Agree BLM metaphor is heavy handed - triggered that you flipped it on me but fair is fair The only point I was trying to make is that voice actors, in the game industry, have it better than most, in the game industry.

Artists, especially concept artists, spend a lot of time job hunting and bouncing company to company for short stints of work - they get none of the things SAG wants. They make a lot less than $200 an hour. They work a lot more than 4 hours a day. Please, ask a concept artist how good it is for their wrists (their livelihood, their "voice") to be drawing 10-12 hours a day 5-6 days a week? Explain to them how voice actors have it so much rougher because they have to work 4 hours a day up to 3 days a week in order to make more money.

A QA tester before release could easily be forced to work 100 hour weeks with no overtime and make less than the 40 hours a voice actor spent on the entire project. Oh, the QA tester will probably also get shit-canned as soon as the game ships. Back to the job hunt. No royalties for them.

There are plenty of people working on games at these companies, many with degrees, making barely above minimum wage. Those people are commuting in to work every day, staying late, buying their own lunches the whole time. Voice actor rolls in for 4-5 days and makes as much money as they do in 6 months. Except the voice actor doesn't have to commute in to work every day, doesn't pay for child care all those days, doesn't pay for lunch all those days. Yea, I get that voice actors are the minority, but I don't see how they're being oppressed on the same scale.

At the companies SAG is striking against, no programmer, artist, modeler, game designer, producer, or writer is getting royalties on any of the games they make. By and large, no one in the games industry is getting royalties on their games unless they funded it (indie/startup).
Someone pointed out stocks - that sort of works assuming the company doesn't lay off the team before vesting (hint: they almost always do). Even if that's not the case, the profits from a game a developer worked on can easily get swallowed up by bad decisions/investments made higher up the chain of command, everyone here knows what I'm talking about. So one could easily work on game that made $100 million dollars, lose money on their stocks because EA blew $200 million dollars marketing {insert terrible EA game here}.
1.
 
Re: Evening Safety Dance
Oct 24, 2016, 19:39
1.
Re: Evening Safety Dance Oct 24, 2016, 19:39
Oct 24, 2016, 19:39
 
Yup, just like everyone was always saying - Apple develops the worlds most secure operating systems!

Oh wait, no, all those people were idiot fanboys.
12.
 
Re: Watch Dogs 2 Trailer
Oct 24, 2016, 18:56
12.
Re: Watch Dogs 2 Trailer Oct 24, 2016, 18:56
Oct 24, 2016, 18:56
 
Cutter wrote on Oct 24, 2016, 14:29:
The Half Elf wrote on Oct 24, 2016, 13:22:
I watched about 20 mins of a 2 hour gameplay and it seems they have made quite a few improvements.

Def on my radar.

Will you go to the virtual Castro and bang a virtual lumberjack?

I'd check this out for no other reason to check out virtual SF. Hang out in North Beach. I wonder if they included Berkeley?

Oh god does Cutter live in/frequent the Bay Area? One more reason to never leave home!
33.
 
Re: SAG-AFTRA Picketing EA Today
Oct 24, 2016, 18:29
33.
Re: SAG-AFTRA Picketing EA Today Oct 24, 2016, 18:29
Oct 24, 2016, 18:29
 
panbient wrote on Oct 24, 2016, 17:02:
Steazy wrote on Oct 24, 2016, 16:55:
No, unions don't form anymore because individual skilled employees have the freedom to negotiate their own working conditions and can leave a job they don't like. Just like these voice actors can.

OR...

Just the same as those industries in the past who would literally grind people up (look at pictures of the hands of mill workers before safety regulations) the current employees could stand up to the exploiters and demand respect for themselves and for the future of their industry.

Sure they can leave if they don't like it. I certainly did - twice. But I still feel bad about not being able to leave the position in any better condition for the next person. And until the people on the bottom rise up it will not change, and it will continue to be a digital mental meat grinder for well meaning and creative young adults who haven't learned better yet.

I mean really, just because The Man tells you he's only hitting you because he loves you, doesn't make it right. But hey, you can leave if you don't like it.

Hmm, maybe the personal anecdote did it but I can see your point.

My concern is that this isn't a video game union fighting for rights against the evils of the video game industry, it's a film industry union fighting against the video game industry to give it's members benefits that other disciplines do not get. The issue is, if they get what they want, that will be to the detriment to the un-unionized employees in the industry (the vast majority).

Film is a unionized industry, camera men, grips, writers, everyone is in some sort of union. There is a strong voice speaking for each group of employees, this insures that one group isn't the only voice heard.

Video games are not a unionized industry, and from what I see (which is not everything) it looks like SAG are coming in and dominating the conversation around their own needs, with no group to speak for the needs of anyone else (the majority of workers). Since they are the only voice, they will probably get what they want. EA execs will not lose $1 off their bonuses if this goes through, the non-VA EA workers will lose... and it will likely harder for them to earn the same rights because of that. The profit pie already having a big slice for voice actors, execs won't take a cut, where does the money come from? If SAG really wanted to make the industry better they would be looking out for more than their own people, because their people are a minuscule fraction of the total picture.


If this was game industry testers/QA protesting for fair compensation, I would be 100% behind them because those guys get royally screwed at every turn. If they say "Tester Lives Matter" I'm not going to shout back "All Lives Matter" cause I know they have it real bad and something does need to be done.

Knowing how voice actors in games *are* compensated, right now, without any of the extras they're asking for... A voice actor can work on a game for a few weeks, a few hours a day, and make more money than people who spent years working full-time on the same game. Voice actors don't work crunch time, they don't come in on weekends.
To me it sounds like they're chanting "White Lives Matter", cause they have it better than everyone else (excluding executive pricks) but still want more.

Hopefully the BLM metaphor doesn't totally nuke this discussion, am legit curious about y'alls thoughts
29.
 
Re: SAG-AFTRA Picketing EA Today
Oct 24, 2016, 16:55
29.
Re: SAG-AFTRA Picketing EA Today Oct 24, 2016, 16:55
Oct 24, 2016, 16:55
 
No, unions don't form anymore because individual skilled employees have the freedom to negotiate their own working conditions and can leave a job they don't like. Just like these voice actors can.
27.
 
Re: SAG-AFTRA Picketing EA Today
Oct 24, 2016, 16:34
27.
Re: SAG-AFTRA Picketing EA Today Oct 24, 2016, 16:34
Oct 24, 2016, 16:34
 
jdreyer wrote on Oct 24, 2016, 15:46:
panbient wrote on Oct 24, 2016, 15:37:
NKD wrote on Oct 24, 2016, 11:43:
While I agree with everything you've said and I sympathize with the VAs... there are still lots of other people in the industry (pretty much everyone) who also deserve some level of proper compensation and protection as well. And in the case of any actual junior developer I'd say those people need it before the VAs.

Then they should unionize too.

Yes, all the programmers, artists, game designers and producers should build a time machine - go back to the 30's - dominate a fledgling industry - unionize - and then come back and bully around a completely different and established industry?

<trolling>How would you feel if UAW decided that auto workers deserved royalties for repairing your car in GTA Online because RockStar mo-capped a union guy for the animations, and you had to repair with real money so rockstar directly made a profit off of their work!</trolling>

More seriously though, I see it like truckers who shipped to toxic mining sights suing the mining company for all they're worth. Yes the truck drivers (voice actors) are entitled to compensation for having gone into danger unprepared. But if they take all the money there is to be had, then what do the miners (aka: everyone else in gaming who dealt with way more bullshit) get?

Voice actors get whatever they want because some people almost 100 years ago formed a club around something mostly unrelated.
Real game developers get nothing because video games are a pretty new thing, we should give everything to the people from the older more established industry? It's older and obviously wiser.


I'd be very curious if someone could find a successful trade union that has been formed during the lifetime of video games (say, Pong in 1972)?


It's also my understanding that the purpose of trade unions is to prevent employers from driving down wages for a skill by simply hiring the cheapest worker. The fact that people can argue that "video game voice actors are irreplacable!" and then support SAG seems like double-think to me. If they were actually irreplaceable they wouldn't need a Union, because they would be hired on their talents (and no one could replace them, do you see how logic works?).

This comment was edited on Oct 24, 2016, 16:53.
26.
 
Re: SAG-AFTRA Picketing EA Today
Oct 24, 2016, 16:27
26.
Re: SAG-AFTRA Picketing EA Today Oct 24, 2016, 16:27
Oct 24, 2016, 16:27
 
jdreyer wrote on Oct 24, 2016, 14:59:
Porn-O-Matic wrote on Oct 24, 2016, 13:20:
HoSpanky wrote on Oct 24, 2016, 12:01:

Instead, you'd rather use your ignorance to make a point towards giving overpaid actors more money for no real reason.
Voice acting is a skill. Go and listen to late-90s games where devs did the voice work. It's cringeworthy, and drops you out of the world instantly. Like many actors, these people are constantly out of work. Residuals are necessary to keep them in the industry and to keep it vibrant. Imagine you had to go looking for a job every two weeks. You might go months looking for work before landing another gig. Why not residuals after the corporations have made a reasonable profit? You want all the money to go to corporate executive bonuses?

Hazard pay?? How fucking dare you.
Nice high horse you got there. Go into your garage and scream for a couple of hours. Now do that every day for a couple of weeks. Report back and let us know the results. Thanks.


Just to play devils advocate a bit...

A) In the game industry programmers, artists, game designers, and everyone else working far more hours at much lower rates frequently get laid off with next to jack shit compensation and definitely no royalties. We do it anyways because we're passionate about gaming. When people have had enough they usually move on to another industry or, if they're lucky enough to have the opportunity, star their own studio (then they can get royalties). Alternatively one can take a pay cut to go work at a studio that won't abuse them I suppose.

B) These voice actors are working on contract right? If they feel that they need "hazard pay" they should negotiate that into the contract like any other contractor in the world. If they find the work hazardous and didn't negotiate up front (say, they weren't told), they have the freedom to leave. Full-time employees don't have nearly the same freedom to walk out on a task they don't want to perform. That's the trade off between contract and full-time work. I've never heard of an artist or programmer getting hazard pay for carpal tunnel.


I don't see why video game voice actors don't have the same options as anyone else in the industry.

Why do they deserve preferential treatment over individuals who put in 1000x the amount of time into the product making 1/100th the hourly rate?

Why don't they go work in a different industry if it's so intolerable, or start their own studio (oh yeah no practical skills)? If no one talented is willing to do VA work in games anymore you can be damned sure that'd get the EA suits attention.

I mean, no one ever forced any of these people to be actors - it's not like they lost their jobs down at the coal mine and this is the only way they can feed their families.


Before everyone crucifies me - obviously fuck EA - they have plenty of money. I'll go out on a limb and say that *all* of the major game companies are mostly evil. Everyone else working in thisindustry deals with this fact by not working for those companies, not skipping work in "protest", because no one else in the industry falls under the umbrella of a powerful union from a *different* media industry who will step in and protect them.

Why are the voice actors so different?
Where do you think EA will take the money to fund these demands? Out of their bonuses? Or out of the already meager compensation of the 1000's of employees that they already abuse and mistreat every day? The full-time employees who they *already* hire and fire like contractors except with a legal basis to sue the bejesus out of those employees if they make any public statements that make the company look bad?


Say these guys get what they want.
Video game voice actors win, because some out of touch union based on film entertainment doesn't understand the industry and just flips the table to get what they want. Everyone else in the industry loses, cause there's no union looking out for them. How many fixed % cuts per voice actor before there's no money for game designers anymore?


Alternatively, these voice actors could stand with the other people being abused and mistreated in the industry (everyone except the execs) to try and make it better for every game developer... to try and create better games for every gamer. To maybe try and look out for the voice-less (see what I did there?) majority that actually created and maintains the multi-billion dollar industry that these poor voice-actors are forced to work in. Seems like, since it's their only job option, they might care about the people who make it possible.

But, something tells me "more money in my checking account" > "better games for everyone" for the people involved. Fair enough I suppose. Those game dev guys are total nerd anyways.



Gee, I guess that got a little ranty... feel free to crucify me.

Edit: how does tags work?

This comment was edited on Oct 24, 2016, 16:38.
6.
 
Re: Mad Max for OS X and Linux
Oct 20, 2016, 18:29
6.
Re: Mad Max for OS X and Linux Oct 20, 2016, 18:29
Oct 20, 2016, 18:29
 
Wait... is this a Unity game?

In my experience doing cross platform development is a huge pain in the ass in Unity, even when you only use built in components. Maybe it's a bigger issue on mobile. Especially input management is a nightmare, especially supporting gamepads on PC+Linux+Mac. It's doable, but it's a tedious pain in the ass.

I find Unreal to be a much better tool for targeting multiple platforms.
1.
 
Re: Evening Safety Dance
Oct 13, 2016, 02:23
1.
Re: Evening Safety Dance Oct 13, 2016, 02:23
Oct 13, 2016, 02:23
 
We're doomed.
11.
 
Re: Movement
Oct 4, 2016, 14:59
11.
Re: Movement Oct 4, 2016, 14:59
Oct 4, 2016, 14:59
 
I think everyone would be using Onward's system if it weren't for Valve/Oculus instructing them not to, it's basically the out of the box movement sceme in Unity or Unreal (except Onward makes it relative to your hand instead of head).

Everyone I show Onward to generally gets extremely disoriented in the first few minutes. That's enough for most people to take off the headset. You really have to power through the initial disorientation curve before Onward is even playable, and even after that I haven't heard of anyone who doesn't get occasionally disoriented.

Disorientation + Years of FPS Experience == Tolerable
Disorientation + Normal Human Being Experience == Motion Sickness

I guess all I'm trying to say is that I think the only reason joystick movement works in Onward is because the people interested in that type of game have a high tolerance for motion sickness (from having put in lots of time in traditional FPSs).

Don't get me wrong though... I love Onward, definitely my favorite VR game right now. It's not for everyone though.
3.
 
Re: Morning Mobilization
Sep 22, 2016, 16:50
3.
Re: Morning Mobilization Sep 22, 2016, 16:50
Sep 22, 2016, 16:50
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Sep 22, 2016, 13:31:
That is a good laptop indeed, but it ain't VR ready with a 1060

My thought as well. VR Ready is already a nonsense buzzword and VR isn't even close to mainstream yet :X
3.
 
Re: Rainbow Six Siege PC Starter Edition Returns
Sep 15, 2016, 20:45
3.
Re: Rainbow Six Siege PC Starter Edition Returns Sep 15, 2016, 20:45
Sep 15, 2016, 20:45
 
More like "Rainbow Six" and "Rogue Spear" I'd think.

Do the new ones have the planning phase where you draw on the map and set stack-points and configure call signs for breaching etc? That shit was awesome.
3.
 
Re: Steam VAC Ban Surge
Sep 15, 2016, 20:43
3.
Re: Steam VAC Ban Surge Sep 15, 2016, 20:43
Sep 15, 2016, 20:43
 
Seriously, I was discussing this with some friends the other day around the question "how do you keep online MP games fun?"

Teams get unbalanced, people spawn camp, people cheat, people grief or just general ass-hattery. None of these automated systems can detect 100% of cases, they probably never will be able to.

"How did we do it back in the day? I played hundreds, maybe thousands, of rounds of CS1.6 and only a tiny fraction of them were ruined by bad players."

Oh yea... admins and dedicated servers with dedicated player bases.
1.
 
Re: Morning Tech Bits
Sep 13, 2016, 16:27
1.
Re: Morning Tech Bits Sep 13, 2016, 16:27
Sep 13, 2016, 16:27
33.
 
Re: Interplay IPs for Sale
Sep 8, 2016, 17:19
33.
Re: Interplay IPs for Sale Sep 8, 2016, 17:19
Sep 8, 2016, 17:19
 
I used to work with a guy who helped on Diaspora - seemed like they were (are?) extremely meticulous getting all the details right. Embarrassed to say I haven't played it yet though :X Something lacking from many modern space games as mentioned previously.
17.
 
Re: Morning Tech Bits
Sep 6, 2016, 16:47
17.
Re: Morning Tech Bits Sep 6, 2016, 16:47
Sep 6, 2016, 16:47
 
Dagnamit wrote on Sep 6, 2016, 14:25:
HorrorScope wrote on Sep 6, 2016, 13:50:
Cutter wrote on Sep 6, 2016, 11:58:
The only way we see price reductions in VR tech is if there's a viable challenger on the mid/low end. A rift with room-scale tracking and motion controls will end up being about the same price as a VIVE, $800. Both Oculus and Valve/HTC have been on record that new gear won't be arriving until, at least late 2017 and probably 2018, and they really have no reason to reduce price until a 3rd competitor appears. The limiting factor is the computer needed, not the headset.

Sony? Morpheus? PSVR? GearVR (low end)? StarVR? OSVR? (Ok just kidding OSVR is a joke, StarVR is basically a joke too).
4.
 
Re: Carnival Games VR Announced
Aug 31, 2016, 20:23
4.
Re: Carnival Games VR Announced Aug 31, 2016, 20:23
Aug 31, 2016, 20:23
 
Disappointed once I realized this wasn't the Brazilian Carnival...
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