I don't see anyone being defensive here, I think everyone has been trying to pin down what it is exactly you want out of a game. You say you want PvP but then make posts in seeming contradiction of that with talk about reason and fairness which can't really be applied to open world survival games with PvP. I'm not married to PvP playmodes, I just don't think these games would be much of anything without them. Like you said many of these games are really amateurish and incomplete, in many cases without the PvP there isn't much of a draw to playing at all. If this group of gamers you talk about is big enough then someone will make a game for them and I will definitely check it out, hopefully it is everything those people want it to be.

To be fair to games like Day Z though, I do see a lot of discussions on other forums where people talk about being griefed, bitch about PvP and when you finally get the real story out of them it essentially boils down to they got killed in some way they didn't like and only want PvP on their terms when its favorable. That sort of bullshit I won't support, no one likes losing but those people can nut up or go play games like Dead Island where its strictly coop.

I had a bit more to say but I have to wrap this up, headed out to family for christmas. Merry Christmas guys, PvP or not!

Krovven wrote on Dec 24, 2013, 06:37:

Jerykk wrote on Dec 24, 2013, 02:52:
So basically, you want an open-world, massively multiplayer co-op zombie survival game with no PvP. That could work, though I have to wonder how much threat zombies would pose in the long run.

Sigh, it's like talking to a brick wall. I've already said several times that I don't want to completely remove PvP from the equation. But the games offered currently have no consequences for just killing random people along with no benefit of random people working together. Therefore I may as well just play any number of shooters if I want to PvP.

I truly do find it amusing, how people are so defensive of their survival game PvP. How precious it seems to be to them that they don't even want to see alternative games and ideas instead of all these copy and paste jobs of DayZ. With all of them, including DayZ, being very amateurish and really none of them being very good or even completed.

The discussion is going on many websites and forums currently, with most defenders of PvP not even being open to other possibilities.
And a whole lot of stories from the PvPers saying "I tried to play nice and work with others, but I was just killed by them." Then they wonder why folks want to see something different.

Krovven wrote on Dec 23, 2013, 19:24:

goatee21 wrote on Dec 23, 2013, 18:34:
By the way, if you want to completely eliminate griefing try playing Rust on a pvp OFF server.

No thanks. Rust looks like absolute crap and zero fun to play.

I'm not interested in doing mundane work tasks in a game. "Somewhere between Dead Island and DayZ", does not equal building shacks in the wilderness with a bunch of naked dudes running around killing chickens with rocks.

Krovven wrote on Dec 23, 2013, 19:13:

goatee21 wrote on Dec 23, 2013, 18:26:
I hear it all the time, someone logs in, says they've played for 15 minutes gotten killed twice that that they hate this dumb game and leave. Happened in rust, dayz, etc. People in the forums would say they've been griefed, people would ask how, they would say they were minding their own business and someone killed them. Would you say they've been griefed? I wouldn't.

What was the reason for the other player to kill that person if all they had was a "rock" as you said before? No reason at all, they didn't even have equipment to steal, so yes, I call that griefing. In this type of game, if you are killing another player simply because they are in view on your screen, that equates to griefing.

goatee21 wrote on Dec 23, 2013, 18:26:
Not sure where you are going with your last sentence. I SEE the cause and effect and am discussing portions of it so???

Schools in... CAUSE - player A gets killed repeatedly by other players while they are trying to explore and fight off zombies. EFFECT - player A learns to shoot other players on sight. Vicious cycle ensues where it's extremely rare for random players to help one another or work together.

Griefing is rampant in most games that players have means to grief. Give someone an environment that has zero repercussion for it and that's what they will do all the time.

Considering this needs to be explained to you speaks volumes. But I'm guessing you are one of the people that shoots other players on sight.

I'm not sure why it's so difficult for some people to comprehend that not everyone wants these kinds of mechanics. And that we'd like to see another game with different mechanics, more focused on coop.

Krovven wrote on Dec 23, 2013, 18:10:

goatee21 wrote on Dec 23, 2013, 17:16:
harlock most of the people complaining about being "Griefed" have not actually been griefed, they've just gotten killed, some of them ONE TIME and are cry babies.

You'd do better with your opinions to not claim to know what others have experienced.

goatee21 wrote on Dec 23, 2013, 17:16:
Also, many of the people who say "hey some dude killed me and all i had was my rock" do the EXACT same dang thing as soon as THEY get a gun.

Gee, I wonder why? Congrats on coming to the same conclusion as the others here, but not being able to see the obvious cause and effect.

harlock wrote on Dec 23, 2013, 14:32:

goatee21 wrote on Dec 23, 2013, 10:59:
Seriously everyone complaining about griefing, these games are obviously not for you. THE ENTIRE POINT OF THESE GAMES IS PVP.

PVP is not the same as griefing at all... if thats what you think, then i weep for you.. like, woe is you

Creston wrote on Dec 23, 2013, 12:20:

goatee21 wrote on Dec 23, 2013, 11:01:
SO....it doesn't attach my comment to who I'm replying obviously lol. Sorry all, I was replying to individual posts while I read them.

It's easiest to just use the Quote feature.

loomy wrote on Jul 16, 2012, 15:01:

goatee21 wrote on Jul 16, 2012, 11:29:
I spent twenty on the operation arrowhead and am using arma II free for the rest. I've EASILY enjoyed twenty bucks worth of game time in dayz. It's been a lot of fun so far. Most people who have complained about the game are whiners who probably got killed or think the game is too hard.
The game IS brutal, it's supposed to be. Death sucks, it's supposed to. it takes a long time to run across the map, it's supposed too. Guns attract lots of zombies, they are supposed to. Trusting or not trusting other players is a difficult choice, it's supposed to be.

arma 2 is one of the worst games ever, and dayz cant fix that.

in dayz you run around collecting stuff on the ground. the game ends when someone sees you before you see them.

what a tour de force. dont believe the dayz hype