descender wrote on Aug 1, 2016, 14:07:
The reason windows needs constant updates is because security is like a leaky boat. People keep finding new ways to poke holes in it and you have to keep finding ways to plug them. You can't just "magic wand" a completely secure piece of software. So when he asked "what security threat is there that is addressed by upgrading to windows 10" the answer is definitely not "MS will keep breaking your shit anyway". The answer is "we don't really know today, but it is more likely to be patched and secured on the newer operating system than the old one". Windows 10 has updated numerous underlying systems that completely change the methods hackers have to use to breach the system. Using Windows 7 is like leaving a lock on your front door that you have let lock-pickers study for 8 years.

Now please go back to your minimum wage desktop support job.

You're explaining how Windows updates are supposed to work "in good faith". RedEye is explaining how they actually work. Microsoft has damaged the user trust pretty bad with Win10 force-upgrade process, and even slipping in the same upgrader again under different update id. And did shit like this:

http://www.businessinsider.com/microsoft-embeds-nagware-into-ie-patch-2016-3

Steele Johnson wrote on Jul 31, 2016, 22:29:
It's clueless griping. It just makes them look like total idiots.

^^^ empty sentiment

descender wrote on Jul 31, 2016, 18:52:
Hilarious seeing some start to come around now that they are actually touching and using 10 instead of just heresay... fuckers.

calm down Satya

RedEye9 wrote on Jul 31, 2016, 08:15:
I, too, am of the belief "the less things running in the background, the better". We are in violent agreement here, but in terms of having one market to shop in or 10, i will take 10 any day. It better for the consumer and in the end that's all we are.
.
.

Yes, I prefer 10 markets to 1. Unfortunately we were talking about the practical ramifications of this, which would involve running 10 clients. Turning off auto-updates diminishes the purpose of convenience these clients are supposed to provide, does it not. Constantly running and quitting them manually does so as well.

I really am not sure why everyone in this thread is in denial about the practical drawbacks of running multiple fat clients, but having brought it up in detail more than once, I'm not doing it again.

DangerDog wrote on Jul 30, 2016, 21:53:
I transitioned from Windows 8.1 so some of it isn't Windows 10 specific but I like that they added the ability to pause file transfers, mostly use it when copying files across the network to play traffic cop. Some don't like the feature but having "quick access" shortcuts on the file explorer is handy, they added Virtual Desktops - kind of surprising when you consider all the doom and gloom about killing off the desktop these days. I do like that they got rid of the charms bar popping up when you move your mouse over to the right edge of the screen. They improved the snap to edge for multiple monitor setups, if you use extended displays you can now snap to the edge that spans between monitors easier.

Few minor tweaks and it feels just like XP/7/8.1 It's an OS though so other than file management and running programs I'm not sure what features would make the experience any different than previous Windows.

Here are the features I found interesting:

NT4-->2000: Proper DirectX support, first Windows gaming OS based on stable NT framework.

2000-->XP: Cleartype. Windows Firewall.

XP-->Vista/7: Non-experimental IPv6 support. Native support for WiFi, no longer dependent on shitty vendor utilities. Optimization of networking stack for handling WiFi traffic, rather than just passing it off as Ethernet traffic as was done in XP. Improved routing black hole detection and TCP/IP send/receive window adaptivity in general. Introduction of CTCP decongestion algorithm based on TCP Vegas. Audio loudness equalization. Improved Start Menu with the typing-search feature. Ability to upgrade some device drivers without restarting the system. Recovery from certain driver crashes, as opposed to blue-screening. Built-in anti-malware. Automatic troubleshooters.

7--8.1: Uhhh... more protection against certain types of malware I guess. Support for new partition types that Microsoft decided to use for dubious reasons. Sturdier file copy?

8.1-10: Well... uhh... virtual desktops? Here are the ones I've been using on Windows 7, made by a subsidiary of Microsoft:
https://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/cc817881?f=255&MSPPError=-2147217396

Quboid wrote on Jul 31, 2016, 02:19:
Wait, there are people who still close their browser before gaming? I haven't done that for a decade. I often have 1080p/60 FPS video playing in Chrome on another monitor while running an intensive game and I don't have a particularly high end system.

Hardware-accelerated video playback, and memory/CPU consumption by a browser which has 20 different tabs open, are two different things. Pretty much every site these days uses Javascript or has some Flash shit/animation inside it. Browsers are heavy business. Especially considering that Chrome launches a new process for every tab.

A smaller footprint is better but RAM is there to be used and performance isn't affected unless you run out and ... is that still a thing that happens? I've fought with bootdiscs and autoexec.bat to try to eek a double-figure framerate out of Quake. I'm not pleased to waste 650MB or whatever but I am pleased to not need to give a crap anymore.

Some stories never change. There's always a class of people who believe caution in expenditure of memory and CPU consumption isn't necessary, because they "currently" have a machine that covers for "current" instances of wastefulness. Ultimately an enablist, contributive to bloat, and therefore, short-sighted, view.

I prefer to have less self-updatey background shit cluttering my computer, y'know? It's just common sense. Thus, I'm not subscribing to the "the more Steam-like clients the merrier" attitude of the original poster.

Alamar wrote on Jul 30, 2016, 15:33:
But how many real life hobo's have you talked to? I imagine a lot of them are surprisingly knowledgeable : )

Oh man, I've talked to quite a few. If they were modeled authentically in a game, admittedly the plot would go to shit, and combat would be triggered by half the dialogue choices.

Razumen wrote on Jul 30, 2016, 22:57:
I have Galaxy, Steam and Origin running right now, combined they're using no more than 650MB of ram, and their CPU use is minimal, if anything. One instance of Firefox is more memory consuming than all of them combined.

THIS is the actual working reality.

Are you running your 2GB instance of Firefox in background when running your average AAA title? If you are, that would not make you too bright.

Neither does implying that running multiple heavy clients in background with 200+mb of memory a piece has negligible impact on system performance. Some of us prefer not to throw away 650mb for shits and giggles.

And what are we arguing about, again? That smaller memory footprint is not better than larger memory footprint? I don't even.

RedEye9 wrote on Jul 30, 2016, 21:22:
Consider the trivial issue trivialized.

Weak.

Meanwhile, on topic:

http://mspoweruser.com/microsoft-angers-removing-ability-disable-store-windows-10-pro-au/

SHOTS FIRED

Mordecai Walfish wrote on Jul 30, 2016, 20:54:
Jesus some of you have an axe to grind here. If setting zany QOS rules to prevent something that takes 3 clicks to disable, if it's not working for your computer/network, is "making the right decision", I'll gladly keep making the "wrong" ones over here.

I don't like Windows 10 or Microsoft's BS as much as the next person, but a good deal of what I've been hearing from people about Windows 10 crosses the line between actual issues and clueless griping.

I would be a lot more likely to be kind to, or interested in, Windows 10, if it offered a single new feature of use or significance. I've perused many a site, looking for just ONE THING that could make it worth it. Just ONE.

DX12/new hardware support doesn't count - it's typical forced obsolescence by Microsoft.

What else is there? Xbox app? Cortana? "Edge browser" (aka Microsoft's delusion that someone will use their browsers)? Bringing back a shitty version of Start Menu?

Nothing. There's nothing. Only spyware and condescending attitude toward the user.

RedEye9 wrote on Jul 29, 2016, 20:12:
16 gb of ram, cool thing i noticed is that they can be turned off.
Everything requires a login or payment method, that's the world we live in today. I'm not too old that i can't navigate a different program yet, and you can put a shortcut to the game you want on your desktop, when you click on it the client opens and then you can play the game.
Never had a problem. Of course I'm not running a celeron laptop.

The storefronts cannot be "turned off" without consequences. You turn them off, you subject yourself to the auto-updating process (of the store and/or game itself) next time you want to quickly run a game.

The two biggest ones - Steam and Origin, have no option to auto-exit once they've launched a game, either. That's because any big-name, serious storefront will double as the DRM provider, so you will have them running in background while their game runs.

Blizzard's Battle.net allows auto-exit only because they sell their own games, so they can spread their DRM framework thinly across the store and game itself, making the latter semi-independent of the store once it has launched.

But you will still pay for not running it in background, because patches.

Defending the CPU and memory hogging of multiple arbitrarily-updating storefronts which have whole ecosystems built-in, is pretty absurd as well.

You can trivialize the issue, but that doesn't make your presentation of it resemble the actual working reality.

DangerDog wrote on Jul 30, 2016, 17:34:
It's unfortunate that we have to wage war on stuff like this but people clinging to their copy of Windows 7 better hope there are some serious in-roads made to improving the usability of Linux over the next couple of years, it's still way too hacker orientated to be able to replace Windows and needs support from the likes of Adobe and Autodesk.

Even if MS goes full retard and completely locks down the desktop on home and pro versions it probably will just mean you'll need to acquire and enterprise version, right now it's around $50.

Win7 users don't need to cling for long. Win8.1 is the last honest OS made by Microsoft, and it supports the majority of Win10 hardware.

descender wrote on Jun 18, 2016, 23:11:

In Windows 7 you were not a real admin until you disabled UAC and magically got "real" admin privileges. In Win 8.1 you're pushed one step further - you need to disable UAC and then edit security policies. In Win 10 you may think you're admin, but your preferences do not matter, they can be reverted at any moment, and things will be done behind your back.

Most of the shit you post is crazy... but this is just hilariously wrong on multiple levels.

Stop using up all the tinfoil, some others here still need hats.

Zero-content reply. Thanks for the chuckle.

Vista and 7 are the same OS with different branding. They share the driver structure, and they share the same planned-obsolescence "forever-update" problem that MS inflicted on "legacy users".

I managed to fix it on one of my 7 machines using a guide, but not on others.

Meanwhile, enjoy your OS-as-spyware-service.

Jerykk wrote on Jul 30, 2016, 04:15:

shiho wrote on Jul 30, 2016, 03:18:
I remember buying Deus Ex: HR, and talking to an early NPC, which was some sort of hobo woman living near a trash can, who mysteriously had lots of coherent and useful information about the world around me.

Given how I live in a hobo-infested city, that experience was jarringly unrealistic and put me off the game permanently.

Can't tell if serious..? If so, I assume you never played the original DX. It was full of surprisingly well-informed hobos.

Partially kidding, but partially serious. Deus Ex was what, 15 years ago? I've grown weary of lifeless NPC infodumps a long time ago, and it's not my fault that the industry has completely failed to move forward in most directions, except for advancements in UI and graphics detail.

I remember buying Deus Ex: HR, and talking to an early NPC, which was some sort of hobo woman living near a trash can, who mysteriously had lots of coherent and useful information about the world around me.

Given how I live in a hobo-infested city, that experience was jarringly unrealistic and put me off the game permanently.

DangerDog wrote on Jul 29, 2016, 23:11:

shiho wrote on Jul 29, 2016, 18:28:
Dunno if this gameplay has been posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=U4OChfGvYsA

Looks like it's been removed, whatever it was

Sky of The..." This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by SIEA.

That was fast. That was some guy playing No Man's Content. He went around drilling for minerals in order to teleport them to his ship in order to repair his broken systems and his suit. The whole thing has a "Corpse of Discovery" kind of feel to it, with Minecraft in it.

He found some horribly ugly dog, and the dog actually found him a health... potion. He wanted to take the dog with him, but the game doesn't let you.

He identified a bunch of plants and animals and got an achievement of some kind as well, with an epic widescreen transition. "Survived 10 sols" or something.

All the plants and stuff have nonsensical names of course.

A spaceship flew by in the sky. The soundscape in this game is very atmospheric and pronounced.

But MS is still gonna spy on what the schoolchildren type, amirite.

RedEye9 wrote on Jul 29, 2016, 19:31:
I could care less how I get my games. The more store fronts the merrier I say. As long as i don't have to keep track of patches, cds and dvds the world is a better place.

Yeah, good luck running 10 different Steam-type clients which will eat 2gb of your RAM, countless CPU cycles, interfere with each other with all their visual overlays, require different payment methods and memorizing different UIs, and are unable to detect when another client is running an online game so they should STOP the autoupdating process.

Fuck that shit.

Dunno if this gameplay has been posted...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=U4OChfGvYsA