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Real Name Bob Bob   
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Nickname BobBob
Email Concealed by request
ICQ None given.
Description Bob Smith
Homepage http://
Signed On Jul 30, 2009, 05:12
Total Comments 2823 (Senior)
User ID 55121
 
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News Comments > Out of the Blue
36. Re: Out of the Blue Oct 2, 2015, 14:37 BobBob
 
The problem and solution is not about interpretation. It's a futile exercise in circular argumentation that leads to both sides drawing the same contradictory conclusion. Instead, the resolution - based on hegelian dialectic - is to simply create a newly 'synthesized' amendment.  
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News Comments > Out of the Blue
34. Re: Out of the Blue Oct 2, 2015, 14:18 BobBob
 
descender wrote on Oct 2, 2015, 14:12:

Your downright avoidence of gun safety and ownership laws that need to be improved puts you firmly in a "nra-row category". I didn't do that.

It's a constitutional debate, which is far more complex than simply yes, no, or even maybe; ex: natural rights vs. the collective security, historical context, the meaning of certain terms, and so forth. We can talk for days on the subject -- simply put, the 2nd Amendment is so obtusely written we might as well have a religious discussion about the nature of the universe on the sideline. Possibly concluding the religious discussion first.

When I was a bored teenager, I used to read Supreme Court cases in the library. I was a strange one.

This comment was edited on Oct 2, 2015, 14:24.
 
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News Comments > Out of the Blue
32. Re: Out of the Blue Oct 2, 2015, 14:11 BobBob
 
Interesting. Retired, you're an ex-cop? And yet we are from two very different places and think so much alike. I wonder if it's due to my family background -- having had close relatives work in probation and criminal court systems -- that influenced my thinking process. Just a random thought...  
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News Comments > Out of the Blue
29. Re: Out of the Blue Oct 2, 2015, 13:52 BobBob
 
descender wrote on Oct 2, 2015, 13:38:
Insurance? What are you talking about? What we need are better protections from any random person being able to legally buy a deadly weapon.

Speed limits, seat belts, license exams, safety standards... you know... those things that do actually help save lives. I don't think the divers test is hard enough at all to weed out dangerous drivers, and I think you should be required to retake it every few years. They could do better but at least there are some protections in place so you have a reasonable expectation of safety.

Crazy people will always find ways to do crazy things, you simply do the best you can to limit their exposure and access to things that can endanger the lives of others.

You can pretend to promote better mental health as a solution, but you don't equate better background checks and mental health assessments as part of that solution to make sure the person buying the gun actually HAS that healthy mental state you are after.

This is turning awfully trollish... I should have detected it earlier. I'm done here.

Interesting. You're saying it's becoming trollish soon after you end up agreeing to my entire argument. The reason for the mental health focus is to make sure the person is not only qualified to buy a gun but is safe enough to walk the streets. Guns are not the only weapons a crazy person can use to harm others.

The fact that you mention driving tests should be more difficult and given more frequently supports the need for the 'good mental health' of people using potentially dangerous things from guns to cars. A driving test filters out 'mental incompetence' and 'crazy behavior'.

Having silly laws that layer on top of other laws only makes the system more bureaucratic and confusing. An already existing distractive driving law can cover texting, for example.

I'm not 'pretending' anything. I'm not an extermist who advocates gun rights or ownership. Please show me where I've demonstrated this. In fact, if you want to talk just 'guns' my responses will probably surprise you. I firmly believe the mental health institution in this country is greatly lacking -- and that leads to unwanted violence, homelessness, drug abuse, and numerous other criminal behaviors. The mentally ill (or let's say 'disturbed') often refuse treatment because of delusions or paranoia. It has to be a mandatory treatment - be it therapy, intervention, or drug treatment. And the bar needs to be lowered in determining what exactly is a mental illness or disturbance - such as paranoia, overtly hostile behavior, homelessness, or fantasies of violence.

Finally, I'd appreciate not being stuffed me into a narrow category. Thank you.

This comment was edited on Oct 2, 2015, 14:01.
 
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News Comments > Out of the Blue
27. Re: Out of the Blue Oct 2, 2015, 13:15 BobBob
 
descender wrote on Oct 2, 2015, 12:56:
Uh... woops?

There are TONS of laws regulating the ownership and use of a car to protect those around you. They are not perfect solutions to all of the things that can go wrong with a car, but they work to keep the average person from dying every time they go out on the road.

If those same type of laws existed for acquiring and using a gun we probably wouldn't be having this conversation.

So what we need is gun violence insurance? Perhaps people can walk around in bullet proof bubbles. Or we can make more laws saying that people shouldn't shoot each other. Like distractive driving ,.. instead of just saying random shooting is illegal, we can make laws that say, if you text while shooting, that's very illegal, and if you drink while shootings, that's even more illegal. Laws on top of other laws, reinforcing prior laws - it really prevents those car deaths. Thumbsup

This comment was edited on Oct 2, 2015, 13:20.
 
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News Comments > Star Citizen Employee Article Follow-up
24. Re: Star Citizen Employee Article Follow-up Oct 2, 2015, 12:56 BobBob
 
When did unverified and anonymous posting become legitimate news? If we cater to this, just about anyone can make a news story and spread fiction. I'm not saying it is fiction, I'm merely saying anyone can do this without consequence, and rumors will spread that may be completely unsubstantiated or with intent to do harm. We really have no idea, either-way.

A general plea:

Total respect for Blue, but once a news site starts posting 'news' from others that admittedly use unverified / anonymous sources (or lacking in proper evidence), it can degenerate into a 'gossip magazine.' I love this site, but please Blue reconsider 'not' posting these kinds of articles -- no matter how tempting it is to share -- unless sources can be verified and/or it's determined not to be a 'trolling' attempt.

With all respect ...

This comment was edited on Oct 2, 2015, 13:22.
 
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News Comments > Out of the Blue
25. Re: Out of the Blue Oct 2, 2015, 12:49 BobBob
 
descender wrote on Oct 2, 2015, 12:44:
You post that as if "mass shootings" are the only problematic result of the gun laws in this country. Wouldn't that be nice.

Drunk driving, texting while driving, distractive driving, and hit and run accidents -- what do they have in common? People driving cars. Obviously, the source of the problem is the car. Right.
 
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News Comments > Out of the Blue
23. Re: Out of the Blue Oct 2, 2015, 12:39 BobBob
 
descender wrote on Oct 2, 2015, 12:12:
I think you should rethink this, because those "fallacies" don't apply to what I just said. I am not trying to win anything. You asked a question and I answered it.

Why isn't mental health considered first when mass shootings come up? Because it's not the most effective way to combat the problem. Not every person with a gun is crazy, but all guns are equally dangerous not matter who owns them. A person can be sane one minute, buy and gun, and go crazy the next. When I say a perfect healthcare system wouldn't stop every crazy person from acquiring a gun, I don't mean that you throw you hands in the air and stop checking for mental illness. Again, it's simply not the most effective way to combat the real problem. The real problem is the essentially unfettered access to guns.

I even very specifically said below that you can't fix one without the other, so the only false equivalency here is you by misquoting the point i was making.

I'll just post some links:

Mass Shootings: Maybe What We Need Is a Better Mental-Health Policy

Mass shootings and the mental health connection

Are mass killings associated with untreated mental illness increasing?

 
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News Comments > Star Citizen Employees "Speak Out"
114. Re: Star Citizen Employees Oct 2, 2015, 11:57 BobBob
 
theyarecomingforyou wrote on Oct 2, 2015, 11:48:
You haven't provided any evidence to suggest that Sandi Gardiner isn't professional or capable of doing her job. She was been with the company since it was only a handful of employees and has been responsible for a recording breaking funding campaign. Your assertion is basically that because they're married she cannot possibly be doing a good job, which is ludicrous.

I never made those claims. I purposely didn't mention any individual or company names. I was speaking on principle - in general - and trying to give people advice who are looking for jobs; especially, to those who are new to the job market.

I'll just link to a trusted source in business and let you argue with that article:

Is Nepotism So Bad?

This comment was edited on Oct 2, 2015, 12:09.
 
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News Comments > Out of the Blue
21. Re: Out of the Blue Oct 2, 2015, 11:39 BobBob
 
descender wrote on Oct 2, 2015, 10:49:
Often the mental health issue is completely ignored or never mentioned at all. Why is that?

Not every person with a gun is "crazy" but they are all equally dangerous? Even a perfect healthcare system is never going to identify every crazy person.

The cry for "mental health" has always been the first scapegoat for the gun nuts. It's a deflection of the real problem.

I never said every person with a gun is crazy. I am claiming that a person who engages in a deviant and/or criminal mass killing is most likely mentally ill. To claim that a 'perfect something' won't solve all the probems so why bother at all is fatalistic thinking. One might as well just eliminate the entire criminal justice system -- after all, not every criminal will be caught and fairly prosecuted.

Nirvana fallacy

The nirvana fallacy is a name given to the informal fallacy of comparing actual things with unrealistic, idealized alternatives. It can also refer to the tendency to assume that there is a perfect solution to a particular problem. A closely related concept is the perfect solution fallacy.

By creating a false dichotomy that presents one option which is obviously advantageous—while at the same time being completely implausible—a person using the nirvana fallacy can attack any opposing idea because it is imperfect. Under this fallacy, the choice is not between real world solutions; it is, rather, a choice between one realistic achievable possibility and another unrealistic solution that could in some way be "better".

Perfect solution fallacy

The perfect solution fallacy is a related informal fallacy that occurs when an argument assumes that a perfect solution exists or that a solution should be rejected because some part of the problem would still exist after it were implemented. This is an example of black and white thinking, in which a person fails to see the complex interplay between multiple component elements of a situation or problem, and, as a result, reduces complex problems to a pair of binary extremes.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nirvana_fallacy



Please don't think I'm picking on you. I often find myself utilizing fallacies to win arguments. It's a natural human tendency to argue emotionally or in generalizations. It's why philosophers and mathematicians developed a logical argumentative system - in order to to eliminate fallacies and find truth(s).

This comment was edited on Oct 2, 2015, 11:53.
 
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News Comments > Star Citizen Employees "Speak Out"
112. Re: Star Citizen Employees Oct 2, 2015, 11:14 BobBob
 
ShadyPete wrote on Oct 2, 2015, 10:36:
Forget about Smart.. questions about SC existed well before he became involved.

CR seems upset that people are questioning his judgement. Well yeah when you do shit like giving your wife a position in the company. I dont care if she is the absolutely most qualified person for that job. You just dont do shit like that people find it fishy and that he didn't recognize that speaks to his TOTAL LACK OF AWARENESS which is a common theme running through all this shit.

No one likes nepotism; except for the relative, of course. The typical result is favoritism and the inability of most employees to rise in rank over a hired relative. And you can just forget about winning in the business's political culture or being fairly treated during social disputes. Don't except true professionalism. That's why, ideally, your better off working for someone who doesn't hire relatives. Or, even better yet, get youself employed by a public company that has to answer to shareholders, is held to stricter standards by the SEC, and is obligated to disclose essential operational and financial information. For example, reading a public company's prospectus can give you important insights - that otherwise, a private company isn't required to divulge.

This comment was edited on Oct 2, 2015, 11:45.
 
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News Comments > Star Citizen Employees "Speak Out"
109. Re: Star Citizen Employees Oct 2, 2015, 10:53 BobBob
 
Freelancer was one of my favorite space games of all time. But, I simply couldn't play it more than 30 minutes per session, without the repetition causing me to feel completely bored. If he can change that ...  
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News Comments > Out of the Blue
19. Re: Out of the Blue Oct 2, 2015, 10:46 BobBob
 
descender wrote on Oct 2, 2015, 10:22:
Why does everything always have to be one or the other?

You can improve mental healthcare while also removing dangerous and easily accessible weapons from the picture. You probably can't solve one problem without the other, so it almost HAS to be both.

There is literally zero justification for the mass ownership of guns in this country. Zero. The majority of the country actually moved past private gun ownership decades ago, but the industry makes entirely too much money for washington to stop listening to the small minority of the NRA.

I have no problem with both issues being addressed equally. The problem is that often the mental health issue is obscured by the anti-gun discussion. Often the mental health issue is completely ignored or never mentioned at all. Why is that?

It would be like debating the problem of drunk driving and putting prohibition back to the forefront instead of addressing the issue of alcoholism and drunkness while operating vehicles. Plenty of people are not alcoholics nor do they drink and drive.
 
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News Comments > Out of the Blue
17. Re: Out of the Blue Oct 2, 2015, 10:17 BobBob
 
jdreyer wrote on Oct 2, 2015, 06:31:

As a police officer, you'd prefer the people you deal with to be armed with easily available guns, or something else like a knife or a baton? Most police orgs I've read about support gun restriction. I'm surprised to hear you say it doesn't matter.


Since we're arguing in fallacy format - in this case a 'loaded question', I'll ask you back: As a good citizen, do you prefer the mentally ill be free, untreated, and willing to hurt anyone they wish as long as they don't possess guns?
 
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News Comments > Out of the Blue
16. Re: Out of the Blue Oct 2, 2015, 10:11 BobBob
 
Retired wrote on Oct 2, 2015, 01:53:
I deal with mental health issues on the street every single day. Every single day. While this does not constitute me as a professional on mental health, I have a pretty damn good insight to the ups and downs of how things work and how people are treated, etc. Where and how they get help, what works, what doesn't. I involve myself in the Hennepin County COPE program. A program that helps some, but not all. Most have to want to get help, just like addiction.

It is very frustrating, the bottom line of it though, is that everyone is different. Everyone's chemical makeup is somewhere along this ginormous spectrum. What works for a whole bunch of people (the cocktail as you call it) doesn't work for a whole bunch of other people. I have contact with people who have dealt with it their whole lives that could be doctors just because of their exposure to the vast majority of drugs and their effects. It can sometimes take years, and it can sometimes never work.

Majority of our homeless have mental health issues. It is also still taboo in a lot of places to speak about mental health. It is one of the rare situations where your freedom can be taken from you without doing anything "wrong" per the law. It is a dangerous game of trying to help people and not wanting to harm a friendship or relationship.

I don't have answers. I have experience....way to much. I would be happy to see institutions be put back into place and used. It is not the cure all, but it would give help and solutions to the worst of the worst that have fallen through the cracks for years. Could also be used as an outpatient facility to give help to those who need it but don't require a permanent stay. The "system" is so overburdened with mental health patients that they literally ask them when they come in the door "are you going to harm yourself or others", if they answer no, they pretty much kick em free....

Guns? eh. You are bringing in a whole separate issue/conversation that doesn't solve the problem and just takes away from what really needs to be dealt with - not even worth talking about. It is easier to say lets take all of the guns away.

You may find this article interesting.

If a presidential candidate takes on mental health as an important issue, I'll strongly consider voting for him/her.

 
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News Comments > Out of the Blue
15. Re: Out of the Blue Oct 2, 2015, 09:58 BobBob
 
Murder She Wrote wrote on Oct 2, 2015, 08:19:
BobBob wrote on Oct 2, 2015, 01:10:
What about a car?

You would have a hard time driving a car around inside of a college campus on a murderous rampage. There was a guy who drove through a crowd of pedestrians in a parade a few years ago and he didn't manage the kind of body count you can with a gun you can get far too easily. Let's bust out that straw man about how someone who really wants to will find a way though, I always love that one.

Unfortunately guns are part of some weird cultural fetishism in the US and mixed in with politics and hunting it becomes this dumb taboo to suggest that maybe the general populace doesn't need access to them without a very strict licensing system that has background checks. People seem to believe that the government will oppose them and that they will somehow overthrow them possessing a Glock and a few clips of ammo.

What do you speculate would have happened if the crazy guy didn't have access to guns?

I can continue with 'what about fertilizer?'

While I totally agree that there should be much stricter gun laws, I believe that mental health needs to be a primary focus. Examine all the recent cases of mass killings and I'll bet you'll find that most (if not all) of the perpetuators had a mental illness, whether it be diagnosed or undiagnosed. Had the person been evaluated and monitored based on behavior - including online activity - it's possible he/she would have been committed and treated instead of going on a rampage.

I guess my viewpoint is in the minority.

Steps on Podium

I believe that anytime something like this happens, and we learn about it. we should all engage in a moment of silence followed by a discussion. We shoudn't let it become a normal part of our daily lives. It should be a shocking interrruption, considered a state of emergency, an abberation, and a most devastating moment. We should force ourselves to feel it everytime. As a nation we need to treat the vitcims like members of our own family - with great sadness and desire for change.

Steps off Podium

This comment was edited on Oct 2, 2015, 10:21.
 
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News Comments > Out of the Blue
10. Re: Out of the Blue Oct 2, 2015, 01:10 BobBob
 
jdreyer wrote on Oct 1, 2015, 22:40:
BobBob wrote on Oct 1, 2015, 17:08:
Gun control is a red herring. The true problem is the lack of mental health treatment - including putting people who have violent thoughts into asylums. There are plenty of cases of a crazy using a car to drive over people .. and other means.

Do some research on the Mental Health Systems Act. You'll see that it was overturned. It would have helped prevent random / mass violence by crazies (who seem to be the majority in this case) and other problems like homelessnes. As it is now, it's difficult, if not impossible, to force a person who suffers from mental illness to get mandatory treatment.

I certainly agree better mental health treatment is half the equation. But if the killer had easy access to a baseball bat instead of guns, we'd have a lot less than 15 people dead. Just sayin'

What about a car?
 
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News Comments > A.I. Invasion Invades
5. Re: A.I. Invasion Invades Oct 1, 2015, 18:46 BobBob
 
iOS version please!  
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News Comments > Star Citizen Employees "Speak Out"
20. Re: Star Citizen Employees Oct 1, 2015, 18:38 BobBob
 
If there was any discrimination in hiring people, that would be quite disturbing. It's so distasteful. Makes me literally feel sick to my stomach. I hope it's not true.  
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News Comments > More QUAKEs & Wolfensteins on GOG.com
4. Re: More QUAKEs & Wolfensteins on GOG.com Oct 1, 2015, 18:24 BobBob
 
Without an anti-cheat like PunkBuster, a multiplayer experience will be mostly comprised of battling against walhackers and aimbots. Do they plan on implementing an anti-cheat?  
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