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User information for Bob Bob

Real Name Bob Bob   
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Nickname BobBob
Email Concealed by request
ICQ None given.
Description Bob Smith
Homepage http://
Signed On Jul 30, 2009, 05:12
Total Comments 2882 (Senior)
User ID 55121
 
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News Comments > Morning Legal Briefs
96. Re: Morning Legal Briefs Nov 23, 2016, 13:39 BobBob
 
Mad Max RW wrote on Nov 23, 2016, 13:15:
BobBob wrote on Nov 23, 2016, 12:57:

I'm not referring to blatant bigots or xenophobes, but I noticed commonly there are groups of people who are close-minded and dogmatically attached to restrictive
viewpoints, traditions, and attitudes with only a home education based on stereotypes and misconceptions vs first hand experience with other cultures and having a higher education - empathy, knowledge, and understanding.

I realize I'm speaking in vague generalizations, but if were sitting down and having s conversation, I could provide detailed accounts of experiences and interactions to back up my claims, ex: personal encounters to over hearing conversations to observing behaviors in public and private.

You find that everywhere, though. You're pushing the false narrative that a large section of the country has a monopoly on being closed minded, which simply isn't true. You will find people like that in each and every state. You'll even find it in the supposed utopia that is Canada. People are just as racist there as they are in the US. An invisible line doesn't suddenly make the majority on one side of it full of hate for people they don't know. And that's precisely what you did by mentioning the Midwest/South. Welcome to the human race. Those with different views aren't automatically closed-minded. It's so much easier to do that than doing the hard thing like getting to know people. But hey, that's why people hang out here and on Twitter and facebook and bitch.


There is always a variety but there is mostly a predominance of belief - homogeneous vs heterogeneous thinking. I encourage anyone who voted for Hillary or Bernie to travel and spend time interacting with people in the "rust belt". It'll help chip away the elitism and hopefully build a sense of empathy, and to see the necessity in bringing higher education to everyone.

For instance, bring manufacturing back to the USA. Non college person reaction - great we can work again! We can work at the factories. College educated reaction -- Wait, what about automation? The tech trend toward manufacturing is counter to the early industrial notion, the "division of labor" -- if anything single machines are able to replace multiple roles and this hasn't slowed down, it's sped up. Companies may bring back manufacturing to save export / import costs (and tariffs etc.), but cheap human labor is already being replaced by robots abroad - with plans to automate entire factories. How will that give you a job? How will you learn new skills?

This comment was edited on Nov 23, 2016, 15:01.
 
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News Comments > Morning Legal Briefs
94. Re: Morning Legal Briefs Nov 23, 2016, 12:57 BobBob
 
Mad Max RW wrote on Nov 23, 2016, 12:44:
What mid western/southern states have you been to? Do you personally know anybody from those areas of the country? I've spent time and maintain friendships with people from every state and the most intolerant, hate-filled racist people are liberal Yalies living like royalty in New Haven while doing nothing to help the desperately poor neighborhoods barely a few blocks away. I dare anybody crying about living in a red state to come to Connecticut.

I've had personal and business relations (and discussions) with people ranging from California to New York to Texas to Wisconsin to Kentucky, the entire Sourh, etc. And traveled to and through many of the states.

I'm not referring to blatant bigots or xenophobes, but I noticed commonly there are groups of people who are close-minded and dogmatically attached to restrictive
viewpoints, traditions, and attitudes with only a home education based on stereotypes and misconceptions vs first hand experience with other cultures and having a higher education - empathy, knowledge, and understanding.

I realize I'm speaking in vague generalizations, but if we were sitting down and having a conversation, I could provide detailed accounts of experiences and interactions to back up my claims: personal encounters, over hearing conversations, and observing behaviors in public and private.

What's funny and scary, during this entire campaign I was explaining to my wife the thinking behind a typical Trump supporter, why and how he/she would react to news, celebrities, media, campaign promises, slogans, ideas, politicians, etc. -- so much denial, then, after the election results, and the shock, and scrambling to explain, it's as if I had a crystal ball, she kept noticing my observations were 100 % accurate, but all I did was simply observe and listen when I traveled.

This comment was edited on Nov 23, 2016, 13:31.
 
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News Comments > Morning Legal Briefs
92. Re: Morning Legal Briefs Nov 23, 2016, 11:43 BobBob
 
Mad Max RW wrote on Nov 23, 2016, 08:54:
BobBob wrote on Nov 22, 2016, 17:52:
jdreyer wrote on Nov 22, 2016, 13:09:
HorrorScope wrote on Nov 22, 2016, 10:41:
jdreyer wrote on Nov 22, 2016, 04:37:
BobBob wrote on Nov 21, 2016, 18:18:
I can feel the normalization coming. Or I'm tired of feeling shocked, scared, and hopeless. I guess I'll just hope the California political forcefield can protect us for 4 years ... or more.

California is on the path to secession, so you'll have it made in the shade.

At this time it might as be the National Inquirer story, living there, there is next to no talk about this. There is a very small group that also has been wanting to split the state into 3 or 4 states. It makes good news at 11pm I suppose but it has no legs and imo that group is way out in front of the succession one. That said a east/west coast split as a test would be interesting.

These secession talks are just silly. It was stupid when TX talked of it after Obama's election, and it's just as stupid now with CA. No one is going anywhere.

Probably, but it's the only hope we can cling onto. Meanwhile, I'll just hide here on 'the hill' and pretend the rest of the world doesn't exist or whatever happens on news is like a post-apocalyptic movie - not really happening.

Please let California become its own country. I'm begging you. There will never be another Democratic president in our lifetime. And it would be illegal for Hollywood to donate millions of dollars to Dem candidates. Lovely idea, BobBob. I'm sure you thought it through.

Well, I enjoy the diversity and craziness here. It encourages free-thinking, individuality, learning, and tolerance. People here are multinational, celebrating their own culture and respecting and assimilating others. There is a general sense of a borderless humanity. There's no sense of "us vs. them." I had hoped our state represented the future and would be a leader in the idea of a "one humanity - many unique individuals" culture for the entire world. Unfortunately - especially based on this election - I can't say that's the same for many Mid-Western / Southern (rust belt) states who seem to be going in the complete opposite direction.

This old punk rock song summarizes it best:

Sink With California

Thumbsup

This comment was edited on Nov 23, 2016, 12:01.
 
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News Comments > Morning Legal Briefs
87. Re: Morning Mobilization Nov 22, 2016, 22:57 BobBob
 
Sanders hammered on Hillary non-stop until the end. Constantly accusing her of elitism and being a sell out to the corporations and banks - pretty much calling her crooked with a softened choice of words. He only turned 180 (in support of her) when he needed to be anti-Trump. Sander's anti-Hillary drum beating still resonates today. He basically handed over political ammunition to the Republican side and helped Trump win. He's as much to blame for Trump's massive support by the working class as is Hillary's complete alienation of them. But for some odd reason he's given a pass.

This comment was edited on Nov 22, 2016, 23:09.
 
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News Comments > Morning Legal Briefs
82. Re: Morning Legal Briefs Nov 22, 2016, 17:52 BobBob
 
jdreyer wrote on Nov 22, 2016, 13:09:
HorrorScope wrote on Nov 22, 2016, 10:41:
jdreyer wrote on Nov 22, 2016, 04:37:
BobBob wrote on Nov 21, 2016, 18:18:
I can feel the normalization coming. Or I'm tired of feeling shocked, scared, and hopeless. I guess I'll just hope the California political forcefield can protect us for 4 years ... or more.

California is on the path to secession, so you'll have it made in the shade.

At this time it might as be the National Inquirer story, living there, there is next to no talk about this. There is a very small group that also has been wanting to split the state into 3 or 4 states. It makes good news at 11pm I suppose but it has no legs and imo that group is way out in front of the succession one. That said a east/west coast split as a test would be interesting.

These secession talks are just silly. It was stupid when TX talked of it after Obama's election, and it's just as stupid now with CA. No one is going anywhere.

Probably, but it's the only hope we can cling onto. Meanwhile, I'll just hide here on 'the hill' and pretend the rest of the world doesn't exist or whatever happens on news is like a post-apocalyptic movie - not really happening.
 
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News Comments > Morning Legal Briefs
70. Re: Morning Legal Briefs Nov 22, 2016, 12:12 BobBob
 
HorrorScope wrote on Nov 22, 2016, 11:26:
Some atrocity would have to happen.

Reaction vs. prevention? (Just wondering ...)
 
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News Comments > Morning Legal Briefs
67. Re: Morning Legal Briefs Nov 22, 2016, 11:09 BobBob
 
HorrorScope wrote on Nov 22, 2016, 10:41:
jdreyer wrote on Nov 22, 2016, 04:37:
BobBob wrote on Nov 21, 2016, 18:18:
I can feel the normalization coming. Or I'm tired of feeling shocked, scared, and hopeless. I guess I'll just hope the California political forcefield can protect us for 4 years ... or more.

California is on the path to secession, so you'll have it made in the shade.

At this time it might as be the National Inquirer story, living there, there is next to no talk about this. There is a very small group that also has been wanting to split the state into 3 or 4 states. It makes good news at 11pm I suppose but it has no legs and imo that group is way out in front of the succession one. That said a east/west coast split as a test would be interesting.

This just in ...

California secession initiative filed with Attorney General

Stunned
 
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News Comments > Morning Legal Briefs
52. Re: Morning Legal Briefs Nov 21, 2016, 21:10 BobBob
 
Cutter wrote on Nov 21, 2016, 19:46:
Some of you are massively overreaching here. This isn't about college vs. blue collar because even the white collar is finally getting F'd in the A and they've had it too. The GOP has to make good on a lot of this stuff because it's their last kick at the can. This wasn't a pro-Trump vote, it was anti-establishment. Kill the TPP and NAFTA, bring back fair trade and end free trade. Even the dumbest republican understands that, more than anything else, is key to their survival. If it doesn't happen the GOP will be fucking crucified. If the Dems were so smart they should have went with Bernie.

This profound analysis and insight is coming straight to us from the great igloo think-tank.

Believe it or not, there really is a major cultural divide between the college educated and non college educated -- in how they think, believe, behave, and interact socially - not only reflected in the outcome of this election, but I've had firsthand experience while traveling extensively amongst the states for business and pleasure. I should write a book about it.

This comment was edited on Nov 21, 2016, 21:30.
 
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News Comments > Morning Legal Briefs
45. Re: Morning Mobilization Nov 21, 2016, 18:34 BobBob
 
Scottish Martial Arts wrote on Nov 21, 2016, 18:15:
unfortunately wrote on Nov 21, 2016, 17:35:
Good thing would-be's like yourself don't have any real influence. Have you read Madison/Federalist Papers? Do you know what 'tyranny of the majority' is? What the role of the Electoral College is re:same? Or would you like to abrogate well-considered protections simply because you don't favor the result of an election? The daily wall of self-proclaimed pol expert posts on this site is laughable. You may look into some humility- if you do so constructively, perhaps we'll see less pretentious pol narrative nonsense on this gaming website.


Ironic that you would cite Madison and the Federalist Papers considering that the therein stated purpose of the Electoral College was to safeguard the republic from the people choosing a demagogue or foreign pawn as their leader. By letting Electors, themselves chosen by state legislatures, choose the President, wiser and cooler heads would be allowed to prevail over an impassioned yet misguided majority. The Framers wanted the people to have a voice, but not too much of a voice, lest too much democracy lead to a democratic government tearing itself apart, as it had in the past.

The Electoral College as it exists today is a bit of an oddity, because the system has evolved such that the Electors are no longer the wiser men selected by state legislatures, but simple partisan loyalists, performing a purely ceremonial function, selected by the outcome of 50 separate statewide contests. In effect, we no longer have the safeguards against an unfit leader assuming the Presidency -- otherwise we'd be hearing a lot more about Electors planning to deny Trump a majority so that the Presidency will go to the House for selection of a more mainstream GOP politician -- and yet we don't have a purely democratic system either, as evidenced by Clinton's 1.6 million, and growing, lead in the nationwide popular vote.

I say if we're going to have an Electoral College, go all in and return Elector selection to the state legislatures. That would keep the Presidency in GOP hands for the foreseeable future, but on the other hand it would keep an incompetent demagogue from ever assuming the highest office. We'd also likely see much shorter and less expensive campaigns, since the "campaign" would mostly occur entirely inside state legislatures.

The Framers were terrified that the people couldn't be trusted to govern themselves responsibly; 2016 and Donald Trump seem to have proven them right.

The argument over popular vote vs. electroral college is simply a matter of coincidence and convenience. If she lost the popular vote some other argument would be made to euphemistically call out the system as "rigged" or "unfair".

Basically, the main difference in this election came down to fewer college educated vs a majority of uneducated voters - with exceptions of opportunism - influencing the electoral college result. The "college educated" are to blame for isolating themselves and 'acting elitist' over the "uneducated" instead of feeling an obligation to listen to the concerns and pleas of the 'uneducated' and help bring them up to intellectual equality.

Of course, some will argue that a college education is merely a type of liberal indoctrination, which has some validity, but for the most part it's a process of learning and sharing authenticated knowledge and developing advanced thinking skills.

We - the college educated - have ourselves to blame. But will we learn to change our methods? Will we learn to reach out and listen with open minds and humility - to teach and include everyone - no matter how much emotional struggle is involved and how much intellectual tolerance it takes?

This comment was edited on Nov 21, 2016, 19:04.
 
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News Comments > Morning Legal Briefs
42. Re: Morning Legal Briefs Nov 21, 2016, 18:18 BobBob
 
I can feel the normalization coming. Or I'm tired of feeling shocked, scared, and hopeless. I guess I'll just hope the California political forcefield can protect us for 4 years ... or more.  
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News Comments > Out of the Blue
24. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 17, 2016, 18:25 BobBob
 
http://m.democracynow.org/stories/16836

 
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News Comments > Out of the Blue
23. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 17, 2016, 17:49 BobBob
 
Hmm...

Perhaps I have an overactive imagination, or others have observed something similar happening in their own neighborhoods.

I bike ride around a lot. One city that I pass through has an area with large patches of sandy beach next to a pier. It's a busy place. People stroll the walkways, fish with poles, shop at the gift stores, dine at the restaurants, and play games in the arcade. It's almost always packed with Hispanic families - grandparents, parents, and their kids - swimming in the water, sunbathing, laughing, playing, and running around.

Post election results:

I swear I've not seen a single Hispanic family.

It's eerie.



This comment was edited on Nov 17, 2016, 18:00.
 
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News Comments > Out of the Blue
9. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 17, 2016, 12:14 BobBob
 
Acleacius wrote on Nov 17, 2016, 10:51:
Sounds like your being serious, so I'll try to answer in one sentence.

'The Republican Party Has Become the Most Dangerous Organization in World History' Chomsky

I'm not sure if you meant to post a link, but here is the full text:

http://m.democracynow.org/stories/16219

It's an interesting read. Thumbsup
 
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News Comments > Out of the Blue
7. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 17, 2016, 11:30 BobBob
 
As always, lots of information sharing, thoughtful insights, and well-written replies. Keep them coming. Thumbsup

This comment was edited on Nov 17, 2016, 11:43.
 
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News Comments > Out of the Blue
3. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 17, 2016, 10:41 BobBob
 
I respect the intellectualism here more than any other online discussion forum.

Here are some questions:

Is this new administration going to suppress civil liberties? Will its ideology and staff choices be an enabler for hate groups and extremist individuals to discriminate against people with disabilities, LGBTQ, women, and minorities? Will it normalize acts of bullying? Will it reverse years of climate change policy? Will it cooperate with known oppressive governments? Or are most of these published articles and debates a bunch of hype brought about by major news and media outlets to increase ratings?

This comment was edited on Nov 17, 2016, 12:20.
 
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News Comments > Out of the Blue
22. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 17, 2016, 10:18 BobBob
 
.

This comment was edited on Nov 17, 2016, 10:38.
 
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News Comments > Out of the Blue
65. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 15, 2016, 20:54 BobBob
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Nov 15, 2016, 20:38:
Beamer wrote on Nov 15, 2016, 14:11:
If it required a foreign language, it was a BA, not a BS - many schools offer both options for CS. And this isn't a bad thing. Being able to demonstrate language proficiency is becoming increasingly important in nearly all fields.
You'd think so -- but no. It was a BS, hence the stupidity. And I disagree that being proficient in a second language is important or necessary for most careers. And frankly, my brain just isn't wired for it. Tried in HS and college and it WOULD NOT TAKE.

Your written English is quite eloquent. Thumbsup
 
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News Comments > Out of the Blue
60. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 15, 2016, 10:59 BobBob
 
Mr. Tact wrote on Nov 15, 2016, 09:30:
Oh and for the record, my personal belief is a four year degree is over valued for most career paths. For specific careers, yes it is really needed -- for say, civil engineers or medical careers. But for decades I have considered 4 year degrees as simply "proof" you can push your way through bullshit to achieve a goal. For a large majority of careers nothing you learn in school is really applicable.


There is much more to higher education than simply choosing a career path or developing job skills. There is mind expansion and enlightenment, and the ability of higher education to teach a person new facts, theories, and new methodologies on how to think. While an individual's mental growth and response will vary, the impact on society as whole is noticeable and dramatic in the way an individual interacts with others to create laws and institutions, express and tolerate diverse ways of thinking, innovate and collaborate, and most importantly, to have objective conversations that are well informed, skeptical, open-minded, and analytical.

Imagine a person lives with a tribe in a dense forest. He's never explored outside a given parameter, has always participated in the same rituals and customs - knowing only the shared beliefs of the tribe - and has never encountered civilization's technology, laws, culture, science, philosophy, mathematics, different customs and beliefs, and new ways of thinking. Perhaps not as extreme, a similar situation can be observed with a person who lives in a small rural town, without a higher education, and has not been exposed to much urban diversity.

Until we push for higher education that is all inclusive, and give everyone the opportunity (how it gets paid for is up for debate), we will never make any progress. As to jobs, if it's not out sourcing, it'll be automation or some kind of advanced technology, and if it's not technology it will be lack of consumer demand or changing trends. Either way, a higher education is the key to obtain the skills needed to transfer and expand horizons, and it gives an individual the knowledge and tools to think and innovate, and master a fundamental skill - the ability to question everything in the universe in a logical, methodical, collaborative, expansive, and skeptical manner. Higher education for everyone should be one of society's primary agendas.

/speech

This comment was edited on Nov 15, 2016, 11:45.
 
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News Comments > Out of the Blue
52. Re: Morning Mobilization Nov 14, 2016, 18:44 BobBob
 
Fine, I'll ask. Who here has a college degree?

*Raises Hand*
 
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News Comments > Out of the Blue
48. Re: Out of the Blue Nov 14, 2016, 14:57 BobBob
 
jdreyer wrote on Nov 14, 2016, 14:44:
I appreciate this forum so much. In this extremely emotional time we are able to come together and be civilized with each other and try and work through what is happening.

On the one hand I agree with Bats that I don't think that things will be as bad as Trump was promising during the campaign. He's already walking partially back some of the more execrable of his promises like the wall and deporting all 11M undocs. On the other hand minorities will face more difficulties than they did under Obama for sure. That's scary.

Trump talked during the campaign of a rigged system and not accepting the results if he lost. At the time I didn't worry too much because as the loser he wouldn't be in any position to do very much. However in 4 years when he loses his bid for a second term he could actually cause a crisis by refusing to accept the results. He'll be president and have all the power of the office to oppose the outcome.

I feel like I was living in a happy - albeit imperfect - fairy tale dreamworld for the past 8 years - focused on day to day life, ambitions, goals, aspirations for the future, and caring about loved ones - but now I've awaken to a nightmare. I have this deep sense of dread in the pit of my stomach. When I go outside, my senses observe everything around me as perfectly normal, but my mind, my intuition, my soul, and my complete sense of well-being dwells in an indefinable state of fear.



This comment was edited on Nov 14, 2016, 17:09.
 
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