Jerykk wrote on Dec 19, 2010, 02:39:
However, "safe" games and genres weren't the only things that publishers funded, unlike today.
It is a fact that publishers in the 90's took more risks than they do now. That is why there were a lot more genres back then.
So, big-budget mech sims, space sims, adventure games, flight sims, tactical shooters, turn-based strategy games, etc, are all going to eventually see a resurgence?
Jerykk wrote on Dec 18, 2010, 23:58:
What exactly are you disputing here?
Jerykk wrote on Dec 18, 2010, 20:47:
It doesn't matter what RPGs he played before Oblivion and Morrowind. Even if you ignore the fact that Oblivion and Morrowind were weak RPGs, he still can't be considered an RPG fan if he's only enjoyed two RPGs. To be considered a fan of a genre, you need to have played and enjoyed a large number of games within that genre. This is common sense, yet you continue to argue against it.
It is not unreasonable to see what this holds for the future.
So what you're basically saying is that if the majority of people are wrong, we should just agree with them.
The industry today is a completely different beast than the industry of the 90's. In the 90's, publishers took risks and tried new things.
Sepharo wrote on Dec 18, 2010, 14:17:shponglefan wrote on Dec 18, 2010, 14:00:
As opposed to in the mid 90's when people were calling the CRPG genre "dead"?
It would have been like Doom winning best Adventure game of the year.
Eldaron Imotholin wrote on Dec 18, 2010, 14:37:
This right here hits the nail on the head and while this one dude said Space Captain and spongephlegm or whatever were wiping the floor with the other guys... I think it's the other way around, especially due to this tiny last thing Seph said.
Jerykk wrote on Dec 18, 2010, 04:45:
He said he didn't like RPGs except for Oblivion and Morrowind. If you only like the games that have the weakest RPG elements, it is reasonable to assume that you don't like the RPG genre in general. If you only like one or two games within the genre, you are obviously not a fan of the genre, especially when the two games you enjoyed have minimal role-playing.
Unfortunately, apathy is not a compelling argument.
Fair enough. I take issue with role-playing even being in the description at all but at least they used "shooter" as the main genre. Unfortunately, the same can't be said for other games like Oblivion, Diablo, Mass Effect, etc. Hell, Mass Effect 2 won the award for best RPG at the VGAs.
StingingVelvet wrote on Dec 17, 2010, 21:33:
Not so in my case, I liked Oblivion. I don't understand why saying it wasn't an RPG is a criticism.
Jerykk wrote on Dec 18, 2010, 01:37:
Marketing called Borderlands an RPG
Jerykk wrote on Dec 18, 2010, 01:37:
If you don't care about labels or definitions, I'm not sure why you're bothering with this debate.
StingingVelvet wrote on Dec 16, 2010, 23:24:
Well if you want to spin it another way I guess you could say Jerykk and I and the others are resisting the word evolving into something else. When RPGs started it meant, definitively, what we are saying it means.
Beamer wrote on Dec 16, 2010, 15:07:
You get people complaining that Fallout 3, Borderlands and Oblivion suck because they're terrible RPGs. Then don't consider them RPGs!
Beamer wrote on Dec 16, 2010, 15:04:
So you're saying this doesn't describe Final Fantasy 7 to whatever they're at now (as well as Metal Gear, actually.)
Jerykk wrote on Dec 16, 2010, 12:15:
The problem with the opposing viewpoints is that they really aren't supported by logic or reason. Their argument seems to consist of "If it calls itself an RPG, it must be an RPG!"
Jerykk wrote on Dec 16, 2010, 04:04:
The most commonly accepted definition is too broad and in many cases, contradictory. For example, games like Diablo, Oblivion and Borderlands claim to be RPGs. Why? Because they have stats, loot and leveling. However, many other games share those same features, yet do not claim to be RPGs. In God of War, you can choose from a wide assortment of weapons and then level them up as you progress through the game. Call of Duty has leveling in multiplayer and you unlock new weapons, gear and perks as you reach higher ranks. Practically every genre these days incorporates leveling of some sort. It's become so generic that it can no longer be used as the sole qualifier for RPGs. If you refuse to accept this, then you must believe that Dawn of War 2, Call of Duty, Battlefield, Darksiders, Command & Conquer 4, and God of War are all RPGs. If you truly believe that, then the word has lost all meaning and the whole concept of genres might as well not exist.
Beamer wrote on Dec 15, 2010, 13:44:
Japanese RPGs are a separate category to me because they're not RPGs and barely games. 100 hours of grinding, 80 hours of overwrought video, not a single choice to be made.