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User information for Kabuto

Real Name Kabuto   
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Homepage http://
Signed On Sep 28, 2008, 12:43
Total Comments 50 (Suspect)
User ID 54387
 
User comment history
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News Comments > Op Ed
42. Re: Op Ed Apr 24, 2012, 01:56 Kabuto
 
Jerykk wrote on Apr 24, 2012, 00:12:


So you're saying that people wouldn't buy new games if there was no ability to resell them? The tremendous growth of digital distribution says otherwise. The notion that the industry would collapse were it not for used sales is fairly absurd. If used sales were abolished, life would go on as usual. There was a time when you could buy used PC games. Did PC gaming die when CD-keys and activations effectively killed the used PC game market? Nope. Do you really think that the console market would fare any differently? People can complain about consumer rights and entitlements all they want but at the end of the day, they'll still buy the games they want to play.

Talk about a straw man....
We are specifically talking about the subset of buyers who choose to resell their games, which considering the amount of business GameStop does, is quite significant.
Those buyers absolutely factor in the ability to resell into their purchasing decisions.

I don't remember making any argument regarding the collapse of the industry.
Personally, I think consoles could transition to an all digital market place if they learn from the pc side and copy the steam model of aggressive pricing. Unfortunately though, I bet they will simply try to use their closed marketplaces to price gouge consumers by offering less value for the same dollar amount. To be fair though, I was pessimistic about steam as well, and I have to admit that turned out great for consumers.

I already covered this one. Publishers and developers don't exist as one single conglomerate with shared profits. Buying a used copy of Psychonauts so you can afford to buy a new copy of CoD2012 does not help Double-Fine. It helps Activision and Infinity Ward/Treyarch. Different developers, different publishers. Even if you bought two games from the same developer and publisher, the used sale would negate the new one (provided the games had the same value at the same of purchase).

Again, you're are focusing on a single transaction. In a future transaction someone may end up trading in CoD2012 and purchasing a new copy of double fine adventure when it is released. Things balance out, the money stays in circulation within the industry. Piracy simply creates a new copy that otherwise wouldn't exist, no value is added, no revenue will be derived past, present or future.

This ability exists with new copies of games as well. However, when someone buys a new copy and DLC, the publisher/developer sees revenue from both the sale of the game AND the sale of the DLC

I thought we were discussing the difference between used games and piracy, the fact that you can buy dlc with a new game is irrelevent.

Ironically, many of your arguments can be applied to piracy as well. If you pirate a copy of Psychonauts, you'll save even more money which makes it even easier to buy a new copy of CoD2012. If you pirate a game and enjoy it, but can't get access to the DLC, you might be compelled to buy the full game. I know that having Steam automatically download patches and DLC is a lot more convenient than having to hunt down cracked patches and DLC. And if you're really concerned about saving money, piracy offers a means to try games that you'd otherwise never buy or at most wait until they hit the bargain bin (at which point neither the publisher nor developer sees negligible revenue). Who knows, if a pirate really likes a game, he might just buy it

See, it's very easy to make a broad argument full of convenient assumptions. Unfortunately, those assumptions can't really be supported by enough facts to provide the foundation of a strong argument. You need to focus in things that can be supported by facts. Like the fact that publishers and developers see no revenue from used or pirated games

I've presented numerous facts, that I doubt any fair minded person would dispute.
The one Incontrovertible fact still remains that every copy of a game in circulation new or used has provided its publisher/developer compensation. Whereas no compensation has been received past, present or future for a pirated copy.
 
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News Comments > Op Ed
40. Re: Op Ed Apr 23, 2012, 23:15 Kabuto
 
Sepharo wrote on Apr 23, 2012, 20:29:
Kabuto wrote on Apr 23, 2012, 18:23:
Jerykk wrote on Apr 23, 2012, 12:30:

You're still arguing legality and not practical results. Once again, nobody is disputing that people are allowed to buy and sell used games. However, when used games are bought and sold, neither the developer or publisher sees compensation. Whether or not they deserve to see compensation is another matter entirely, but the fact remains that they don't see any. Same thing applies to piracy.

I see the problem here. You want to argue the single used game transaction and ignore the larger picture. You want to ignore that the original "new" buyer almost certainly factored in their ability to resell the game at a later time before making their purchase. You want to pretend that the money received by selling their game will not recirculate into the game industry and will only be used on preowned games. You want to ignore that each and every time a used copy of a game is sold it gives publishers the ability to up sell a new customer on high margin DLC. 
You have to take a pretty narrow point of view to equate piracy and used game sales.

Now you shall face my army of strawmen... Muwhahahaahah




Jerykk has made his position clear that he sees no difference between buying a used game or pirating a game because during the actual transaction (buying a used game or downloading a pirated game) no compensation is provided to the publisher and or developer. This position ignores any and all other factors that make buying a used game dramatically different than simply downloading a pirated copy. I pointed out a few of the differences to illustrate my point, which is hardly straw-man argument. 
 
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News Comments > Op Ed
38. Re: Op Ed Apr 23, 2012, 18:23 Kabuto
 
Jerykk wrote on Apr 23, 2012, 12:30:

You're still arguing legality and not practical results. Once again, nobody is disputing that people are allowed to buy and sell used games. However, when used games are bought and sold, neither the developer or publisher sees compensation. Whether or not they deserve to see compensation is another matter entirely, but the fact remains that they don't see any. Same thing applies to piracy.

I see the problem here. You want to argue the single used game transaction and ignore the larger picture. You want to ignore that the original "new" buyer almost certainly factored in their ability to resell the game at a later time before making their purchase. You want to pretend that the money received by selling their game will not recirculate into the game industry and will only be used on preowned games. You want to ignore that each and every time a used copy of a game is sold it gives publishers the ability to up sell a new customer on high margin DLC. 
You have to take a pretty narrow point of view to equate piracy and used game sales.  

 
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News Comments > Op Ed
28. Re: Op Ed Apr 23, 2012, 02:57 Kabuto
 
Jerykk wrote on Apr 23, 2012, 01:49:

Again, you're assuming that all pirated copies originate from a copy that was obtained illegally. In truth, most pirated games originate from a new copy that was legally obtained. After all, that's the easiest way to obtain games before they are pirated. For that one new copy, the publisher received compensation. Same thing applies to games that are resold as a used copies. However, whether or not the publisher and/or developer received compensation for the original purchase is largely irrelevant. They did not receive any compensation for the transactions made after that original purchase, whether it be a used sale from GameStop or a pirated sale from some street vendor in Thailand.

What you really mean to say is that used copies are generally harder to obtain than pirated copies. This is true (provided you have access to the internet). However, it's a pretty trivial point and doesn't change the fact that neither a used sale nor a pirated sale offer compensation to either the publisher or developer of the game being traded.

While piracy is illegal and used sales are not, they both have the same end result when it comes to publishers and developers. Used sales are convenient because they let you be cheap without compromising your moral integrity unless you actually care about developers being rewarded for their work.


It doesn't matter if the original copy that is cracked and distributed was legally purchased or not. That single copy can now be downloaded an infinite number of times, making the origins of the original copy irrelevant. A single used copy may realistically be resold a handful of ttimes, but the most important distinction is that every used copy in distribution was orignally a legally sold copy.

If you want to argue that used game sales hurt the industry as a whole, go ahead. I don't neccasarily agree, but the argument can certainly be made. But stretching that argument to say that pirating a game is the equivalent of buying used is absurd.
 
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News Comments > Op Ed
26. Re: Op Ed Apr 23, 2012, 01:28 Kabuto
 
Jerykk wrote on Apr 23, 2012, 00:47:

One, usually. Same with used games. You buy a new game, then sell it, someone else buys it, then sells it, rinse and repeat forever. Pretty much the same as buying a game, then copying it and releasing it on the

Are you just being deliberately obtuse?
GameStop, and any used game retailer for that matter, requires a vast inventory of used games to operate. All of those copies were at one point purchased new.

Your argument that a single copy can be resold countless times, while theoretically true, is extremely unlikely in most cases due to the short shelf life of most AAA games. Regardless though of how many times a used game is resold the fact remains that originally that copy was purchased new and the publisher of said title did receive compensation for it. For a pirated copy no compensation will ever be received.

 
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News Comments > Op Ed
17. Re: Op Ed Apr 22, 2012, 07:59 Kabuto
 
I'm not going to rehash the entire used game debate, that has been done to death here. The point I take issue with, which I've seen you espouse, is that pirating a game is the equivalent of buying a used copy.

Jerykk wrote on Apr 22, 2012, 04:18:

Your position ignores the fact that a used copy only requires a new purchase once

How many copies need to be sold for a game to be pirated an infinite number of times?
 
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News Comments > Op Ed
10. Re: Op Ed Apr 21, 2012, 23:49 Kabuto
 
NKD wrote on Apr 21, 2012, 20:06:
You're better off pirating the game than buying it used from GameStop. Either way the developer doesn't see a cent, and if you pirate, you're not supporting GameStop's vampiric business practices.

This position ignores the fact that for GameStop to sell a used copy a new copy had to of first been bought and resold. No such requirement exists for pirated copies. It also ignores the likelihood that fewer new copies would be purchased if buyers were unable to trade or sell them at a later time.

Given GameStops thriving business model, clearly there is ample demand for both recouping part of the cost of purchasing a game, and buying discounted games. Until I see publishers actively addressing these issues, rather than simply throwing a hissy fit, they won't have my support in demonizing used game sales.

 
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News Comments > Crowdsourced Hardcore Tactical Shooter Becomes TAKEDOWN
8. Re: Crowdsourced Hardcore Tactical Shooter Becomes TAKEDOWN Mar 26, 2012, 23:21 Kabuto
 
I went ahead and kicked in $15.00. I would need more information about these investors and what their actual commitment is before I would be willing to up my contribution.  
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News Comments > Arma 3 Alpha Release Planned
1. Re: Arma 3 Alpha Release Planned Feb 24, 2012, 21:39 Kabuto
 
Sounds typical of a ArmA game, except this time I guess they aren't charging for the alpha testing.....  
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News Comments > On Sale
2. Re: On Sale Feb 19, 2011, 02:15 Kabuto
 
Civilization V is on sale at Green Man Gaming for $19.96 during the next 16 hours.
 
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News Comments > Dead Space 2 DLC Dead 2 PC
14. Re: Dead Space 2 DLC Dead 2 PC Jan 27, 2011, 00:35 Kabuto
 
StingingVelvet wrote on Jan 26, 2011, 23:20:

All the Mass Effect, Mass Effect 2 and Dragon Age DLC came to PC. Shit, even the Mirror's Edge DLC did. I am not saying EA are the best at supporting the PC versions of console-focused games mind you, I am just saying their recent support has been relatively good.

I read the original Dead Space sold like crap on the PC, so I am assuming this is about the market being too small more than anything. They contribute to the PC market being small by making the PC version less appealing though, certainly.

The post I responded to specifically mentioned the non-existent support for the first Dead Space, but despite that they still went ahead and purchased the sequel at launch for full price. As the saying goes fool me once....

With that being said, I agree that it's a slap in the face to their paying customers to not offer the same support and content across all platforms. The only recourse though is to not buy their products until they change their business practices.

This comment was edited on Jan 27, 2011, 00:46.
 
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News Comments > Dead Space 2 DLC Dead 2 PC
7. Re: Dead Space 2 DLC Dead 2 PC Jan 26, 2011, 21:58 Kabuto
 
Sempai wrote on Jan 26, 2011, 21:29:
I bought the PC Special Edition for $80 bucks.

Not ONE patch for the first Dead Space.


FUCK YOU EA!

The problem is that you chose to pay full price knowing full well that EA has a history of not supporting the PC version of their games. In the future, don't support companies with poor business practices.
 
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News Comments > Direct2Drive Game Rentals
26. Re: Direct2Drive Game Rentals Jan 23, 2011, 01:19 Kabuto
 
I would have applauded this a few years back, but now that excellent deals offered through digital distribution services are the norm, $5 rentals seem pointless. The only way this new services makes sense for me as a consumer is if new titles are offered VERY quickly after release. Otherwise, I might as well wait for it to go on sale for $5-$10 and get the entire game.  
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News Comments > On Sale
1. Re: On Sale Dec 23, 2010, 20:56 Kabuto
 
Amazon has a few really good deals going on right now:

Mafia 2 - $12.50
ArmA2: Combined Operations - $12.50
S.T.A.L.K.E.R. Call of Pripyat - $5.00

All of those are the cheapest I've seen yet.
 
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News Comments > On Sale
9. Re: On Sale Dec 4, 2010, 04:23 Kabuto
 
The EA Store is having a buy 2 (or more) and get 50% off sale. Their latest releases are excluded though.

Is the DA:O expansion pack worth picking up for $7.50? Does it add anything worthwhile to the game?

What about Bad Company 2, is the SP only portion worth playing?
 
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News Comments > Op Ed
51. Re: Ars Technica - Buying used games Aug 27, 2010, 22:56 Kabuto
 
Ruffiana wrote on Aug 27, 2010, 20:42:

Movies have multiple revenue streams. If movies were only ever released on DVD direct to consumers then it would be an apt comparison, but by the time a movie reaches the home DVD ownership phase, it's already had a run in movie theaters and probably made a profit. It's been available on pay-per-view, and it's been on HBO/Showtime for a couple of months. Even after it's put onto a DVD and sold at Best Buy they can still make money from a film by licensing the rights to cable or network stations. Unlike games, movies have much more longevity. People will watch buy and a movie from decades ago.

Music has rapidly changed it's business model over the years to deal with digital format and ease of copying/distribution. Like films, a recording artist can bring in money from live venues and concerts (akin to movie theaters in being a unique, one time experience), album sales, individual track sales through iTunes, Amazon, etc...licensing of songs for use in film, television, or games. Like movies, music is ageless. People will buy music that they like and hold on to it. Unlike films or games, it takes far, far fewer people to produce a piece of music...so the financial investment and risks are much lower.

As for books, it doesn't take multi-million dollar investments and huge teams of people to create a book...so there is substantially less financial risk involved. There's also some value of a book associated with the physical good, the printed word on paper...and those goods do degrade over time. They grow musty, their spine gets broken, pages tear, print fades. Unlike a game, people are likely to hang on to a book for decades and re-read years, decades, or even centuries after they were written. Keep in mind that books in digital format is a fairly new industry, but it's already having an impact on retailers world-wide.

So while the formats of various media are similar their costs to produce and markets are radically different. Games really only have one market for making money, in a very limited time frame, and yet are still are on par with films in terms of cost to produce, market, and distribute. The reason you don't hear more from the film, music, or book industry about used sales is because it's just not cutting into their profitability in the same way...but that could very well change in the future.

You're arguing differences in business models, not fundamental differences in the products themselves.

As others have already suggested, if game publishers aren't able to survive with their current business models, then they should should probably explore other options, rather than complain about a long established consumer right.
 
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News Comments > Steam Summer Sale Day 9
5. Re: Steam Summer Sale Day 9 Jul 2, 2010, 20:29 Kabuto
 
I picked up Borderlands, I couldn't pass it up for $10.00.

I'm considering buying Saints Row 2, but I've heard bad things about the PC port, particularly that the frame rate is terrible. Anyone have experience running it on a X4 955 w/ 8800GTS (G92)? I just want to know if it's at least playable before purchasing it.

Edit: Is any of the Borderland DLC worth buying for single player only?

This comment was edited on Jul 2, 2010, 20:55.
 
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News Comments > Steam Summer Sale
36. Re: Steam Sale Jun 24, 2010, 22:13 Kabuto
 
Is Space Rangers 2 worth picking up? How has the gameplay and graphics help up after 4 years?  
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News Comments > On Sale
1. Re: On Sale Jun 5, 2010, 03:51 Kabuto
 
Wow, SC2 is already being marked down to $10.00. I guess abandoning your user base by turning what was a unique RTS game into another C&C clone didn't pan out.
With that being said, for ten bucks I'll buy it and play through the SP campaign.
 
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News Comments > On Sale
1. Re: On Sale May 18, 2010, 20:21 Kabuto
 
Is the single player portion of Universe at War worth playing?  
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50 Comments. 3 pages. Viewing page 2.
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