PHJF wrote on Feb 15, 2011, 18:34:

This. by buying second hand you've given them as much money as someone who stole the game.

Except buying it used presupposes somebody bought in the first place you FUCK.

Got that right! If you buy used, someone paid full price for it before the person that bought it used did! Therefore, there is no reason to charge people that bought a game used for MP as the person that paid for it is not using their spot anymore thus leaving one open.

Tis just greed. Nothing more.

As I really hate Steam, but I really wanna play DNF, I'm guessing they won't mind if I pay for the boxed version and then download the cracked one that will come out later?

Dev wrote on Nov 12, 2010, 00:00:

Nxs wrote on Nov 11, 2010, 23:19:
I just thought that I would bring up some things that I do not like and there would be some conversation about how steam or an offspring from it could help the PC gaming community.

It is very apparent that that is not the way it is going to go.

For the fourth time, I am OK with this. I just thought that my views would bring forth some thought on how valve/steam works and how to make people like me want to use it or a derivative of it. I am going to have to say that I was wrong!

People that like and use steam have no reason to want a PC game without the use of a third party, from what I can tell, due to stats.

Did you notice that OTHERS agree with you about things they don't like about steam? Such as not being able to sell games? Some of them it stops them from using, some it doesn't. I wouldn't mind the ability to resell my games, but it doesn't stop me from using steam.

Did you know that impulse has mentioned they want to implement the selling of "used" digital titles? I think the publishers will love it when/if it happens, it lets them get another cut out of the used market, they hate gamestop over that. If it succeeds there will be pressure on steam to do the same thing, and they likely will.

The stats don't mean that "people don't want" other features and alternatives to steam. It just means the alternatives out there haven't beat steam. Going by pure stats you could say that no one likes anything but MS, which isn't true, there's a lot of people that like and use apple/mac stuff, millions in fact.

If you really want alternatives to succeed you should put your money where your mouth is and start buying from places like impulse or D2D, or EA store, or amazon, or gamestop, or whatever. If you don't want to do that or help start a company with an alternative, the next best thing to do to achieve your goal is to make your opinion known (just like in politics). Write to the game publishing companies (physical letters and email) and let them know you want alternatives. Write to steam, let them know you want such and such features. Write to impulse and tell them you want such and such features and would they hurry up with reselling games. Post your opinions on the internet (bluesnews is fine, but you should post on wider read places).

If you really want it, don't give up with a few negative replies in bluesnews.

Note: I love steam, it has its issues, but there's a lot to like about it for me. I'm just giving you some objective advice on how to work towards achieving your goal if you desire it enough to work at it. Plus, competition is good for the marketplace.

Sepharo wrote on Nov 11, 2010, 23:38:
Child, troll, or idiot?


I'm voting child!

No, I don't think he's any of the above. I think he's just a non native english speaker. I've learned to recognize it. He still types it pretty well however. His word/phrasing choices sometimes hamper the points he's trying to make. Sadly, I've seen native english speakers worse, our public schools aren't exactly the best in the world.

That was just awesome! Concerning the child thing!

lol! Judging by your pic, I am guessing you are no more than 20! Not that it matters.

I really thought someone on here would break free and think for themselves.

Call me a child, troll, or whatever you want to! In the end, people will eventually wake up and realize that they are being screwed over by steam, battlenet, and alike.

I would love to be there to tell you I told you so but, I have no memory!

You have gotta be kidding me?

Tis not like you have to quote me. I know what I wrote!

I told you before, I will say it again before I eat and go watch cartoons; I knew what was going to happen well before I posted in this thread. I am fine with this. A lot of you love steam. I don't care! I just thought that I would bring up some things that I do not like and there would be some conversation about how steam or an offspring from it could help the PC gaming community.

It is very apparent that that is not the way it is going to go.

For the fourth time, I am OK with this. I just thought that my views would bring forth some thought on how valve/steam works and how to make people like me want to use it or a derivative of it. I am going to have to say that I was wrong!

People that like and use steam have no reason to want a PC game without the use of a third party, from what I can tell, due to stats.

If most of you want to sit there and let steam tell you how a PC game should work, fine by me! However, some of us have a brain and like to think! Steam should be an option not a need. I do not care what most of you say, steam or something like it is needed to play a PC game these days.

Personally, I hope every brick and mortar and other digi download site that sells a game that you have to go home and install steam sues the piss out of them! They should have done it a long time ago!

Verno and Slash,

Amazon and the rest are not an alternative for me either! Mainly because it is the same crap. I buy from a different place and still have to use steam.

I do not want to use steam or anything like it. I thought I made that clear! If you do, fine. I do not and I know there are other people that think the same way I do.

I am not trying to change your mind about steam. I am just stating my opinion on the subject.

I am telling you though, sooner or later, steam is going to be regarded as a monopoly and something will happen.

As much as I want to argue with you, it is very apparent that most people think anyone against steam is just some retard that is not willing to change. I am willing to change, just not the way steam, Live,PSN, Apple or any other big brother system wants me to.

I like having a choice and a say and none of the ones I listed above will ever change as long as they have control. It is the consumers that should be in control, not the other way around and as long as you guys sit there and take it, it will never change

Verno wrote on Nov 11, 2010, 18:35:

It makes no sense to me why everyone seems to be defending steam/steamworks.

Err, why do we have pick sides? Seems kinda childish. I use Steam but I'm well aware of the potential consequences it poses to the industry. Unfortunately there isn't a lot of alternative for consumer choice right now. The PC platform would be in terrible shape without it and it does implement features that consumers want so in the end you take the good with the bad and hope for better in the future.

Please by all means, feel free to design your own Steam clone with published APIs and open systems. Then somehow manage to convince the industry that your central ownership and management of it is in their best interests while they scream and howl about DRM and whatnot. I'll be your first customer even. Until that time though, we work with what we have.

I am not asking anyone to take sides! If you like steam that is fine. I just happen to think it sucks. Maybe you misread or I did not post as plainly as I should have.

I see no need to design some other version of steam or battlenet. Again, all that needs to happen is that publishers realize that there is no reason for this dumbass DRM. It all boils down to that they are scared shitless about piracy. I know, I have said before, however, it still rings true. Once publishers realize there is not one damn thing they can do to stop it, they will stop making the same shit over and over again and actually make the customers that pay for the game happy.

Until then, steam is going to be a closed off monopoly just like live, PSN, Apple, etc.

You may think this is fine and dandy but, I have been playing games for more than 20 years on everything they have been on. Steam and everything like it sucks! Period!

DrEvil wrote on Nov 11, 2010, 17:51:

Nxs wrote on Nov 11, 2010, 16:41:

Nxs wrote on Nov 11, 2010, 12:22:
Wrong! What is really driving people to steam? You can't play a damn PC game without it! IN other words, you have no choice but to play almost any PC game on steam no matter where you bought it.

Almost any game? What? Nonsense, plenty of games don't use steam. You are talking full steamworks games which are a minority, not a majority. Just because you can buy it on steam and use it on steam, doesn't mean steam is required if you buy a retail copy.

It does if that retail copy uses steamworks DRM, which a lot of retail copies do.

While there are some titles soled on Steam and also sold in the store without steam, those seem far less common than the "steam-only" variety.

Yes, I really do understand the difference. The problem is, I don't care! I do not want a third party installed on my computer to play a game I just paid for!

It makes no sense to me why everyone seems to be defending steam/steamworks.

We have all been through this before! Piracy will continue to happen no matter what anyone does. It is a fact! Punishing legit customers because you are afraid piracy will hurt your bottom line is just insane!

I understand that devs and publishers want to protect their property and they have every right to. I just don't think steam, steamworks, battlenet, or any other DRM like that is justified.

If I was a rich man, I would bet a million dollars that if you gave people a choice between a game that requires steam or steamworks or just a simple CD code, my money would go with the CD code.

Steam sucks monkey balls! That is my opinion and I'm sticking to it!

Dev wrote on Nov 11, 2010, 16:56:
Nxs:
I see from the reply coding when I tried a reply you lost the open quote there, you have the close but not open
I tried posting it here in a bluesnews "code" option, but it interprets it inside that too.




Ooops! Sorry about that Dev.

Nxs wrote on Nov 11, 2010, 12:22:
Wrong! What is really driving people to steam? You can't play a damn PC game without it! IN other words, you have no choice but to play almost any PC game on steam no matter where you bought it.

Almost any game? What? Nonsense, plenty of games don't use steam. You are talking full steamworks games which are a minority, not a majority. Just because you can buy it on steam and use it on steam, doesn't mean steam is required if you buy a retail copy.

Now steamworks games are becoming a bigger percentage, I think MW2 showed that valve can handle a big AAA title that was steamworks, so others are using it. But for instance Dragon Age wasn't steamworks. All those windows live games? They aren't full steamworks games.
Alrighty, I may have exaggerated for effect a little bit there. It was just to get my point across though.

For example, I do not like to play any FPS game on a console. I play FPS games much better with a mouse and keyboard, could be that I am old. I wanted to play Civ 5. I didn't though. Why? You had to have steam to play. I wanted to give Black Ops a shot as it has been a long time since I have played a CoD title. Again, it required steam. Plus it was Activision. That's another thing though. So, the only way I could play Black Ops was rent it for the 360.

Steam/steamworks. Eh. To me it is all crap. Make no mistake though, I do not like any game that requires me to have a third party app installed to play or be connected to the internet to install or play the SP part of it.

Even though I hate steam with a fiery passion from hell, I do not wish it gone because people do like it. Even though I still say that is basically a forced thing. I just want a version that does not require steam. I don't think that is too much to ask

bhcompy wrote on Nov 11, 2010, 12:57:

Nxs wrote on Nov 11, 2010, 12:22:

Shataan wrote on Nov 11, 2010, 12:15:
"what really is driving people to Steam"

= convenience

Wrong! What is really driving people to steam? You can't play a damn PC game without it! IN other words, you have no choice but to play almost any PC game on steam no matter where you bought it.

Wrong? Nah. Steam provides better prices(generally), much greater accessibility(no CD, no key management, works on any PC or Mac with only the limit that you can only be logged on to your account on one machine at a time), and they provide direct matchmaking/friend tracking for games sold through Steam(which is my favorite daily use feature).

Well, you are entitled to your opinion. I just really hate steam.
I long for the days when I could buy a game, plug in the CD code, install, and play. BF: 1942 is a great example of that.

Never have and never will buy a game that requires steam.

Shataan wrote on Nov 11, 2010, 12:15:
"what really is driving people to Steam"

= convenience

Wrong! What is really driving people to steam? You can't play a damn PC game without it! IN other words, you have no choice but to play almost any PC game on steam no matter where you bought it.

This is the kinda retarded thinking that is going to kill PC games altogether even though the PC is damn near the best place for games!

Does any dev think for one damn second that a person that does not want to pay for a game will not find a way around it regardless of what restrictions you put on it? We have already seen other morons decide to goto consoles cause of piracy. The one have things that can get around the console thing, it is called a mod chip! If you think for one second pirates won't get around the online thing, you are sadly mistaken and are hurting yourself in the long run as not everyone wants to be online just to play a damn game.

That being said, I have paid for every game I have played. Sure I have downloaded a game or two but, end up buying it.

By going strictly online, you are in effect calling all you customers thieves and might as well be a company called Starforce

http://gamershell.com/news/32613.html 1.4 patch!

I agree! What the hell is with all the paid to play betas lately? This is the kinda crap that should piss gamers off. There are game sites that are completey free and yet never get an exclusive demo or beta. I do understand that damn near everything revolves around money but, should'nt the gamers that spend their hard earned money on the game get to play these, what are basically demos, free? It seems the free demo is going the way of the dodo and not a lot of ppl seem to give a crap! Sure it is a choice to go pay for something that should be free for everyone but, I really think this is a trend that needs to be stopped! Just my opinion

lol! All kindsa funny

Barbies Horse Adventure > FIFA

All I have to say is, beautiful. I hope other people will follow suit.

Nxs

This comment was edited on Mar 13, 14:10.

I will not say another word on the subject it this thread

I am glad that it works fine for you, however, that is not the case for everyone else! Post until your fingers are as blue as this board, I don't care. The % that SF does hurt should be a concern and not ridiculed by people such as yourself.

All we are doing is making the public aware that SF might mess up your puter. There is nothing else to it.

Nxs