Cutter wrote on Sep 25, 2019, 20:02:

ColoradoHoudini wrote on Sep 25, 2019, 19:54:
yeah, that's a no from me dog.

Screw this BS

Then tell MS to pony up the dough for access to it. Can't blame IW when Sony gives them a truck full of cash to do it.

I do hope this is inline with how you feel about EGS vs Steam exclusives.

Creston wrote on Sep 23, 2019, 21:29:

Rilcon wrote on Sep 23, 2019, 20:39:
Or just pay their employees better salaries, which indirectly helps them make more and/or better games.

That whole "They'll pay their developers better salaries!" thing sounds really familiar... Where have we heard that before? Trickle-Down something something?

Please stop with this argument. It's a dumb argument. The big corporate tax cut was going to give everyone big fat raises too. Everyone who actually got a big fat raise, rather than absolutely jack shit or a one-time miserly bonus (which got taxed extra), please raise your hands.

Publishers aren't going to give the extra 18% to their developers. Trickle Down economics don't work, no matter how many times we try them, because the people who are supposed to be trickling down are greedy fucking bastards.

(I totally get why publishers prefer EGS over Steam, 18% is 18% and it's a BIG chunk of cash. I just wish people would stop with this trickle down argument.)

By that logic, Steam's profits all go to GabeN's wallet and none of it towards Valve game development, right?

HorrorScope wrote on Sep 21, 2019, 10:40:

HorrorScope wrote on Sep 20, 2019, 19:55:

Rilcon wrote on Sep 20, 2019, 19:46:

HorrorScope wrote on Sep 20, 2019, 19:33:
If this were to hold, I suspect many companies in this realm would simply stop doing business in France. Go back 20 years, many companies wouldn't work with other countries until they got copyright protections, this is just going back to that point. France will most likely cave wanting those tax dollars back in the end, we'll see.

You can't regionlock inside the EU; a publisher can't sell in Germany or Italy but exclude France, it's all or nothing.

Check.

Was thinking about this and not saying you are incorrect, but how can one country then like Germany ban something while another EU doesn't? How do they region lock that? So France just made an entire possible decision for the EU with this ruling?

AFAIK, yes. There've been some recent ruling that paid online streaming services in one country can't regionlock or charge different amounts depending on the country, forcing them to either open service to the entire EU, or shut down entirely.

tbh the EU has a lot of these ideas that are great on paper but end up being a shitshow in practice due to already existing crap.

.Drifter wrote on Sep 23, 2019, 20:33:
My biggest complaint is that, from what I had read, being on EGS was less expensive to a developer. As such, that could result in this savings on the developers part being passed on to the consumer as a cheaper game.
Same thing that was said when Steam launched, games would be cheaper since they wouldn't involve all the money needing to be spent on getting a game into a store as a physical copy, and yet it never happened due to the need to maintain price parity with the physical copy in the store, or risk losing the box sales in store.
And here Borderlands 3 is, nice payoff to the developer, apparently a discount for using UE4 and releasing on EGS store exclusively, on top of the lower fees to be there than on steam, along with no need to meet price parity with a physical store copy, and yet the game is no cheaper than any other version. No savings passed on to the consumer.

The "savings passed on to the consumer" is that the company has more money to make more and/or better games in the future. Or just pay their employees better salaries, which indirectly helps them make more and/or better games.

Of course, the meme autoresponse is to claim all the "extra" is going straight to CEOs and/or hookers and blow.

Could just be for an expansion; Undead Nightmare for RDR was its own release, and we're getting close to Halloween...

A high percentage want nothing to do with EGS and would have bought BL3 on Steam

Got a source on that, mate?

HorrorScope wrote on Sep 20, 2019, 19:33:
If this were to hold, I suspect many companies in this realm would simply stop doing business in France. Go back 20 years, many companies wouldn't work with other countries until they got copyright protections, this is just going back to that point. France will most likely cave wanting those tax dollars back in the end, we'll see.

You can't regionlock inside the EU; a publisher can't sell in Germany or Italy but exclude France, it's all or nothing.

Cutter wrote on Sep 20, 2019, 18:40:
How much did EA make last year? Ubisoft? Activision? Oh yeah, they're barely scraping by. Oh yeah, and game prices for new triple A titles here are $80 on average with CE's surpassing $130 so yeah, they are keeping up with inflation. Jesus, are some of you seriously crying for how hard done by assholes like Bobby Nodick would be?

Big publishers generally make a only profit on a minority of the titles they invest in, and these days most of that profit does indeed come from collector's editions, DLC, season passes, etc. and not the title itself, because even with sales expectations big games are sold at a loss.

And the vast, vast majority of the industry is not these big players, it's third parties going with minor publishers and wholly independent studios going alone; if they're very lucky, they have some money from a previous successful project... chances are they don't, and in any case the cost of development just increases year by year over whatever they could have made before.

But that doesn't matter, what matters is that all games should be cheap and if you don't like it after putting 6 hours into it, you should be able to get 80% of your money back, right?

Cutter wrote on Sep 20, 2019, 17:22:

HoSpanky wrote on Sep 20, 2019, 16:57:
This sort of thing simply can’t happen without completely wrecking every digital industry. You aren’t reselling a physical item, where wear and tear make it worth less than a new one. The laws regarding your ability to resell an item weren’t designed for things that don’t degrade.
If this sort of law passed in a country, that country would find itself suddenly unable to access digital content at ALL. Companies like EA would rather lose sales to one or a couple countries than suffer the insane losses from people buying and reselling games endlessly.
It’s one thing to say “I want to be able to resell this thing I bought” and another entirely to say “I want this company to assist me in selling this thing I bought, which absolutely won’t benefit them in any way whatsoever”. A new copy will always sell for more than a used one, which means a smaller cut all around for devs and Steam. Why would they have ANY interest in helping YOU get paid so they can make LESS?

Hogwash! The product still ages. Are you going to pay $50 for a 20 year old game that millions of people are reselling for a buck or two? It's no different then what Gamestop was doing with physical media for a decade. Everybody has a limit to what they think something is worth. It's zero different from waiting for a sale except this actually empowers the consumer and forces the publishers into an actual free capital market. Want to make a sale? Better lower the price in that case.

We've been getting screwed on game pricing since day one. Someone arbitrarily decided games should sell for $60 and that's pretty much what's it's always been. And then the bastards decided to screw people over even more with regional pricing. This industry has been making money hand over fist for decades now. And it's been at the expense of the consumer. So no, it won't wreck the digital industry it'll finally make them treat consumers fairly.

lmao

Game prices are far lower than they should be, they've been kept at a mythical $60 for two decades out of fear of angering fickle consumers, which has just been pushing publishers to invest in DLC, season passes, microtransactions, lootboxes, online features, etc. to boost returns on successful games for when the equally expensive to produce failures happen. Meanwhile indie companies just die left and right it's 1348.

Game development is hilariously expensive while what it produces is sold for pennies. Compare the ROI a consumer gets from a movie ticket vs what they get from your average game, where the cost to produce is similar or higher.

But all people see is the ignominy of having to pay money for something that isn't tangible, and since it isn't tangible it just doesn't have value.

Coming soon, Steam Premium, pay $5 a month for a subscription service that lets you buy and play games from major participating publishers. Major players keep themselves safe from resells eating away their sales, while indies get screwed as usual.

And this is how all those subscription services will win: large games will simply not be sold except as barebones where most of the content will be tied to an online account or "season pass", smaller games will be available only as part of subscription access.

Had similar happen to me on Uplay 2-3 years ago with the last Splinter Cell; my connection dropped during gameplay and it stopped doing cloud saves for a week. Eventually it turned itself back on (on starting upplay again, I guess) and wiped half a dozen hours of progress.

Never did finish that game.

necrosis wrote on Sep 14, 2019, 15:55:

Rilcon wrote on Sep 14, 2019, 13:44:

The Half Elf wrote on Sep 14, 2019, 13:34:
So to fix Borderlands 3 you need to get rid of Epic Game Store?

Does EGS actually let you kill it while playing? Wish I could do that with every launcher; Ubi's I think lets you close it but keeps some process running, Origin and Blizzard I remember would kill the game, and Steam might be game dependent based on using Steamworks DRM, but since most do I haven't bothered testing, and nor have I tried for Bethesda's.

GoG's the only (other?) one that just lets me play my damned game...

Battlenet can close after the game launches. Has been able to for years. In fact there is a option for bnet to close when the game launches in the options.

Something I wish more clients had.

Also what issues with BL3? Been watching tons on streamers and none of them have had issues.

Oh. Killing Battlenet killed Overwatch back when I played early after release, but that was two-ish years ago and I didn't exactly "test" it. Apart from a free copy of the latest codblops it's also the only thing I have on there...

The Half Elf wrote on Sep 14, 2019, 13:34:
So to fix Borderlands 3 you need to get rid of Epic Game Store?

Does EGS actually let you kill it while playing? Wish I could do that with every launcher; Ubi's I think lets you close it but keeps some process running, Origin and Blizzard I remember would kill the game, and Steam might be game dependent based on using Steamworks DRM, but since most do I haven't bothered testing, and nor have I tried for Bethesda's.

GoG's the only (other?) one that just lets me play my damned game...

Kxmode wrote on Sep 13, 2019, 16:20:

Flatline wrote on Sep 13, 2019, 16:04:

Kxmode wrote on Sep 13, 2019, 15:31:
Customer: This looks exciting. I'd like to join the party!
2K/Gearbox: Show us your ticket.
*Customer shows a Steam ticket*
2K/Gearbox: Hahahaha. That's rich. Come back in a year. You can't join THIS party.
Customer:

No PC gamer should be okay with this blocked-off access level BS.

That is a *terrible* analogy.
"I want into the big concert"
"let's see your ticket"
"Here is my ticket to another concert"
"You need the right ticket to get in."
"Whaaaaah! I paid good money for this other ticket!"

Steam ticket? FFS the whining here is reaching critical mass.

It meant a year ago it didn't matter WHAT ticket you had because the game was available wherever because third-party exclusives didn't exist. "Tickets please" is something Epic created.

My analogy is perfect for the point expressed.

You have to pay for tickets to have them, and usually wait in line to get them before waiting in line to get on the ride.

I can understand people being pissy because they bought a "Steam ticket" and now they have to go to another "EGS line" with sticky popcorn on the floor to get on the same exact ride, but that doesn't apply to Borderlands 3, there was never "Steam ticket" to buy in the first place.


Also, something something Linux vs Windows gaming on PC.

Darks wrote on Sep 13, 2019, 14:35:

Rilcon wrote on Sep 13, 2019, 14:27:

Icewind wrote on Sep 13, 2019, 14:22:
"but no one gets mad when a game is exclusive to steam!"

Yeah, because Steam doesn't make a publisher go exclusive to them. Any publisher can take their game to GOG, or Windows Store, or itch.io, or whatever. Steam doesn't dangle money in front of a dev and tell them "If you take this you can't go anywhere else"

In your defense of Epic Game Store, I'd like you folks to be a little less facetious.

How are they making publishers do anything? Epic isn't the mafia, where saying "no" means they'll shoot your dog.

Besides, it's not like Valve doesn't have a history of buying up studios/projects at the 11th hour to make them Steam exclusive.

Hmm, sounds like someone been smoking to much dickweed.

Can you explain what you mean? Or are you just being insulting?

Icewind wrote on Sep 13, 2019, 14:22:
"but no one gets mad when a game is exclusive to steam!"

Yeah, because Steam doesn't make a publisher go exclusive to them. Any publisher can take their game to GOG, or Windows Store, or itch.io, or whatever. Steam doesn't dangle money in front of a dev and tell them "If you take this you can't go anywhere else"

In your defense of Epic Game Store, I'd like you folks to be a little less facetious.

How are they making publishers do anything? Epic isn't the mafia, where saying "no" means they'll shoot your dog.

Besides, it's not like Valve doesn't have a history of buying up studios/projects at the 11th hour to make them Steam exclusive.

PHJF wrote on Sep 13, 2019, 12:40:
While I'm not about to go around the internet rating BL3 0/10, I feel like they should incur some kind of backlash for being EGS exclusive. I skimmed a few of the "professional" reviews and none of them even mentioned EGS. They should definitely mention it at the very least.

That'd be a bit like giving a Chic-fil-A sandwich a bad rating because the chain's owner is apparently a hardcore christian. If I want a review on a product I want the review on the product, without bias because of something potentially problematic someone related to it may have done. Mentioning, sure I guess, but for what's supposed to be a "score" of a thing's quality, no.

Besides, think of what will happen if that's considered normal; you'll get garbage reviewed highly because the creator's a swell lad that saved a kitten from a tree. Also known as AssCreed Unity reverse-review bombing...

El Pit wrote on Sep 8, 2019, 11:44:
Security concerns? Yeah, right. No hacking/cracking groups in the U.S. Only in the stinking old world. What, you want facts to support this? You need no stinking facts, all you got to do is shout "YOU ASS EY!" until you almost suffocate and the lack of oxygene will give your brain all the facts you need to understand! Now go and waterboard yourself, kid!

The marketing agency they use to send out review codes probably had a leak on their European side of things before and they don't want to risk it with a title like this before they find out exactly who, I guess.

007Bistromath wrote on Sep 1, 2019, 15:08:

Rilcon wrote on Sep 1, 2019, 14:14:
I would however suggest reading the post about the allegations made by a Night in the Woods codeveloper that knew and worked with the guy for over half a decade:

https://www.reddit.com/r/NightInTheWoods/comments/cxqjp8/end_of_summer_backer_update/

I read this stuff earlier, and it really puts #MeToo and Zoe and a whole bunch of other stuff into a new context for me. Holowka seems to have been the kind of crazy that spends their life in and out of mutually abusive relationships, which is very common among artists. Not a villain or a victim, just a complete trainwreck of a person. I wonder how much of the moral panic and culture war surrounding these issues only exist because we have media that records and publicizes peoples' lives in far greater detail than is proper.

There are also actual sociopaths that hide among these troubled people, and take advantage of them. Often times, even when you're close to them, it's impossible to know which is which. I've felt pretty certain before, and feel it's still pretty likely, that Zoe Quinn is one of those. But how can I know? How can I know Holowka wasn't?

This shit shouldn't be a matter of public argument. Nobody has the truth.

There is definitely something "not normal" about most of the people these sort of dramas involve; maybe I'm just a potato surrounded by other potatoes, but the amount of "drama" that any one of these Youtube, Twitter, Instagram, indie game dev, etc. people go through in a single year exceeds what I or anyone I know goes through in their entire lives.

I'd usually just blame "social media", but that really can't be all there is to it, and I'm sure this isn't new. Just now instead of "crazy cousin Jerry" being someone you only experience on big family dinners, all the Jerrys now have social media accounts all of us can spectate in morbid fascination, especially when they start interacting with each other.


Sorry to any Jerrys out there.

Overon wrote on Sep 1, 2019, 14:01:
Was there any other evidence for the alleged sexual assaults besides the typical he said/she said?

I can see that this guy had a lot of problems and this probably just was the straw that broke the camel's back.

If you mean video evidence or pictures of blood splatter or something like that, then no.

I would however suggest reading the post about the allegations made by a Night in the Woods codeveloper that knew and worked with the guy for over half a decade:

https://www.reddit.com/r/NightInTheWoods/comments/cxqjp8/end_of_summer_backer_update/