User information for Gwen 0wnz j00

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Gwen 0wnz j00
Gwen 0wnz j00
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April 30, 2005
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5 Comments. 1 pages. Viewing page 1.
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Forgot one point
Apr 30, 2005, 14:47
Forgot one point Apr 30, 2005, 14:47
Apr 30, 2005, 14:47
You challenged us to name one thing that is persistent in Guild Wars. At the close of every BWE, the devs sprang some sort of surprise on the players. Last month it was gift boxes full of gnomes, fireworks, and celebration. The month before it was an invasion of Gwen's that firebombed everyone while quoting Blade Runner. Those events happened simultaneously for everyong that was ONLINE. I missed one of those two events, so I have proof that they happened regardless of whether I (or anyone for that matter) was there or not.

Ahh Kobalt, you are a rare gem
Apr 30, 2005, 14:40
Ahh Kobalt, you are a rare gem Apr 30, 2005, 14:40
Apr 30, 2005, 14:40
The saddest thing about you is that underneath all the bluster and the incessant cursing (btw, I hear they have great treatments now for people with Turrettes syndrome) is that there is an actual intelligence there. A close-minded one to be sure, but you aren't stupid. You seem to think everyone ELSE is though. How sad. But not atypical. Let's reply to some of your "thoughts".

"Name one fucking thing that is persistant in gw. Does it have some mob that spawns once a day for everyone and other people are affected by this?? Does it have bases that anyone at any time could take, then the next day you could take and the other people have to?"

See but that's the sort of thinking that is holding the entire GENRE, and as such, the INDUSTRY back! Why are you trying to enforce your belief that just because something HAS been a certain way that it always MUST be that way?! Don't you see how that hampers developers from trying to create something unique and original? I mean, hey if a developer wants to create a new MMORPG what you are telling them is that you just want "more of the same"! What we're talking about is expanding the acceptance of the term MMORPG to include broader applications of the technology.

Look I pointed to the article in wikipedia because it is an encycolpedia that is created BY CONSENSUS of the general public. They PURPOSELY left their definiion of the term MMORPG vague, because if you pigeon-hole the genre, and you restrict the definition to include things like "it MUST have mobs that spawn once a day for everyone" then what kind of variety are you going to end up with? EVERY MMORPG WILL BE THE SAME! Guess what, that's already happening. You can't tell me WoW is's simply a refined version of EQ with different graphics.

"Kobalt, who made your definition of MMORPG the official one?

Every single mmorpg on the market, from asheron's call to final fantasy 11"

I challenge you to name 5 SIGNIFICANT differences between all the games that you would consider to be an MMORPG.

"wtf are you talking about? Fucking everquest had it at release, guess thats recent huh?"

Sorry I was unclear on this point...Everquest has scripted AI that is MADE to look persistent. But it's not persistent on its own. There's a difference. Persistent AI as I was talking about it means that an AI doesn't follow the same routine every day. It means that the AI has a set of routines that it knows how to do and it does them on its OWN without involvement from anything. A good example of a game that showcased persistent AI was Black and White, or more recently Fable. It is persistent in that it acts just like you would expect a real person to act, albeit in a simplified manner...making its own decisions about where it wants to go and what it wants to do. In other words, at 12:00 PM an NPC might be working at his job one day, and taking a poop in the woods the next. The NPC has AI that functions on its own, not according to some hard-coded and scripted schedule. Yes, an NPC in EQ might be in the same place, doing the same thing every day, and that is a form of persistence...but not what I was meaning to convey, so sorry for confusing you on that issue.

"mmorpgs has "districts" of 2k+ while gw has 50. Real massive."

Even though I can only see 50 at a time in one district, there are thousands of players I can interact with at the click of one button. This is what I don't think you get. My friends list alone has 50 names on it, and no matter where they are in the game I can chat with them. Districts simply reduce the clutter and the noise of having to find the ONE person that you are looking for in a sea of thousands...but that doesn't change the fact that those players are all in the same game at the same time. Sorry you didn't like my analogy. As stated in other do you explin the other MMORPG's that shard their servers so that you can only play with thousands at a time. I mean, what isthe cut-off point, in a percentage form, before it becomes an MMORPG in your mind?

Well let's lowball and say that in order to be an MMORPG< you have to be on the same server at the same time, with say...10% of the total population? Then no MMORPG fits that definition...because if you take 10% of EQ's 450K subscriber base, that's 45K players at the same time. When you log into EQ, are you seeing those 45,000 other players? Even 1% is 4,500 players in one place at one do you propose that this function?

"A better analogy is saying grand thef auto san andreas is a rpg because it has a few rpg elements. Retarded all the same."

How can you prove that it ISN'T an RPG? You play a role, you can advance your character and grow his stats, as well as change his appearance. You undertake quests that progress you in the game...why can't we call it an RPG? Because it's not a fantasy or sci-fi setting?!

Oh, and unlike others, I'm a patient man with nothing else to do at the moment, so you feel free to keep insulting and baiting me and I'll just keep playing along.

Oh and another thought.
Apr 30, 2005, 01:47
Oh and another thought. Apr 30, 2005, 01:47
Apr 30, 2005, 01:47
Because I am all fired up now...Guild Wars tag line is "The Revolution is Here"...and I think that we're seeing that play out here on these boards. We're talking about perceptions of not just what makes an MMOG fun, but what makes an MMOG, period! Like one poster tried to point out, but kind of got it backwards, it's like that time when the whole world believed that the world was flat. It took a visionary to see past "common knowledge" and think of the world in a different way.

This is exactly what you all are experiencing here with Guild is challenging everyone's common perception of what an MMORPG is...well, like Columbus some us are able to see past our narrow perceptions of what an MMORPG "should be" and instead will expand the boundaries of the MMOG and we will look back at arguments like this and think "what were we, stupid?"...just like we do now at those people who used to think the world was flat.

This comment was edited on Apr 30, 01:50.
I sure do loves me some stoopit heads...
Apr 30, 2005, 01:34
I sure do loves me some stoopit heads... Apr 30, 2005, 01:34
Apr 30, 2005, 01:34
Um, yes I do believe I know the definition of persistent. The question is: do you? Well maybe not so here I looked that up for you too...courtesy of Merriam-Webster. I removed some of the definitions that I didn't feel were very applicable to this *ahem* discussion.

One entry found for persistent.
Main Entry: per┬Ěsis┬Ětent
Pronunciation: -t&nt
Function: adjective
Etymology: Latin persistent-, persistens, present participle of persistere
1 : existing for a long or longer than usual time or continuously: as a : retained beyond the usual period <a persistent leaf> b : continuing without change in function or structure <persistent gills> (CULLED FOR BREVITY)
b : continuing to exist in spite of interference or treatment <a persistent cough>

Does the game world exist for a long time or continuosly? YES
Does the game world continue without change in function or structure?
While it does change to reflect the player's activities, this is also true of other RPG's, especially MMO's. But on a larger scale, the game world does continue without a change in its basic function, so YES.
Does the game world continue to exist in spite of player interference?

I love this quote: "Every mmorpg has this, you could log on early as fuck and be the only one in the area, and its as if the area is real with npcs going about their business.

Does guild wars have this? No"

So it sounds like you're talking about persistent AI, or NPC other words, NPC's that have a schedule and will do things without player involvement. No, Guild Wars doesn't have it. But I don't think that persistent AI is a requirement for being an MMO, particularly since persistent AI is a rather recent phenomenon, and MMO's predate its use, which isn't even widespread at this time.

And this one: "How the fuck do you consider having 56 "districts" of 50 players or so "simultaneously player""

Um, because those 56 districts of 50 players are online at the same time. That's what simultaneous means. Don't make me go look that one up should know what it means. So according to your "logic" just because those players aren't all in the same instance, they are no longer online at the same time? So if you and I are both typing on these message boards right now, but I am here and you are wherever you live, that we're not online simultaneously?

School's out. And IGN is hardly the paragon of intelligence that I would take THEIR word on whether Guild Wars is or isn't an MMORPG.

It's so guys ask for facts to back up OUR claims that Guild Wars fits the definition of an MMO, and then when we do, all you can come back with are your own biased arguments and petty insults.

[EDIT] Oh and actually that little snippet from IGN did get it right...almost. It should read more like this: The first thing that needs to be said is that Guild Wars is not a TRADITIONAL MMO. 'Nuff said.
This comment was edited on Apr 30, 01:39.
When in doubt...
Apr 29, 2005, 21:56
When in doubt... Apr 29, 2005, 21:56
Apr 29, 2005, 21:56
...consult the Source. We're going to use facts here, not opinions, as the last poster suggested. Go here first:

Honestly I think the whole problem is that players have only ever known one kind of MMORPG, that being the mold of Everquest, and so people automatically assume that if a game isn't just like that, well then it must not be an MMORPG. It really helps if you break it down.

Massively Multiplayer Online = Thousands of players simultaneously playing in the game world, which is persistent and generally rather large.

GW: Check.

Role Playing Game = Creating a character that grows and changes over time, can undertake quests, and engage in socialization with NPCs and other players.

GW: Check.

Yeah, I think Guild Wars qualifies. That's fact.

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