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623 Comments. 32 pages. Viewing page 14.
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45.
 
Re: Game Reviews
Dec 9, 2009, 04:51
45.
Re: Game Reviews Dec 9, 2009, 04:51
Dec 9, 2009, 04:51
 
It's like basing a society's success on the amount of millionaires while ignoring the large percentage of homeless, poor, and unemployed.

I'm still not sure what you are trying to argue.
Do you not believe that the gaming industry is huge?
Do you believe that the 57 billion dollar gaming industry is on the verge of collapse?
Do you not think companies are capable of turning a profit in an industry with 57 billion dollars of revenue?
Do you not believe that if any large publisher fails that another company will be right there ready to take their place?
43.
 
Re: Game Reviews
Dec 9, 2009, 04:19
43.
Re: Game Reviews Dec 9, 2009, 04:19
Dec 9, 2009, 04:19
 
Typically 20% of the people make 80% of the income. It doesn't spread even.

I'm not sure what your point is. Business isn't fair, it never has been and never will be. The point I was making with the revenue figure, is that the gaming industry is hardly on the verge of collapse, as some people imply. The gaming industry is huge, and growing.
35.
 
Re: EA on
Dec 9, 2009, 01:58
35.
Re: EA on Dec 9, 2009, 01:58
Dec 9, 2009, 01:58
 
Actually revenues for the past quarter were 1.65 million, up 151 million from last year. Profits, however, didn't exist. 641 million in losses instead.

Around here, though, that's due to greed and marketing. And, of course, closing underperforming studios burning through more money than they earn.

Global revenues from gaming in 2009 is expected to be around 57 billion.
34.
 
Re: EA on
Dec 9, 2009, 01:56
34.
Re: EA on Dec 9, 2009, 01:56
Dec 9, 2009, 01:56
 
Revenue is not profit.

Just as games are not economically equivelant to movies...or worse, cars.

The point is that their is plenty of profit to be made.
If certain companies can't seem to figure out how to turn that revenue into profit, then I have little sympathy for their supposed plight. Someone will come in and take their place, and hopefully do a better job, if they do eventually fail.
26.
 
Re: EA on
Dec 8, 2009, 23:43
26.
Re: EA on Dec 8, 2009, 23:43
Dec 8, 2009, 23:43
 
The fact that EA, one of the largest most profitable publishers out there, has said they're shifting focus to developing established franchises should have sent cold chills down the spines of everyone who considers themselves a gamer. This was a public admission that the industry is slowly realizing it can't function on the Hollywood/movie model because brick-and-mortar sales do not function in the same way as box-office ticket sales. You can't resell your ticket after you're done watching a movie. You can't make 1,000 copies of your movie ticket and give it away for free. Movies would not be made the way they are today if all they had to rely on was the secondary market of DVD sales/rentals.

The sky is falling the sky is falling. Don't look at the 57 billion dollars of revenue, the sky is falling!
1.
 
Re: Sunday Tech Bits
Dec 6, 2009, 17:55
1.
Re: Sunday Tech Bits Dec 6, 2009, 17:55
Dec 6, 2009, 17:55
 
I think the Windows 7 family pack will be back eventually. The average multi computer household is unlikely to pay $300+ to update the OS on all of their computers.
That means they either won't upgrade, or they'll pirate it. Neither option nets Microsoft any money.
52.
 
Re: Deus Ex 3 a PC Exclusive?
Nov 27, 2009, 10:03
52.
Re: Deus Ex 3 a PC Exclusive? Nov 27, 2009, 10:03
Nov 27, 2009, 10:03
 
Yeah, and all they had to do was turn it into a completely different type of game. If that's the route they're taking with DX3, then count me out.

I see what you are saying, but DX is a FPS, which is arguably the most popular console genre. There isn't a need to turn it into a completely different type of game to find success on consoles
49.
 
Re: Deus Ex 3 a PC Exclusive?
Nov 26, 2009, 21:37
49.
Re: Deus Ex 3 a PC Exclusive? Nov 26, 2009, 21:37
Nov 26, 2009, 21:37
 
I would normally agree, but we don't know what the budget is for this game, or what their sales targets are. Deus Ex also has zero name brand recognition outside of a subset of PC gamers.

It's not like it's Modern Warfare 3 or something. Console gamers don't give two shits about this game, so why should Eidos attempt to sell it to them? Console sales could amount to jack for a title like this. Eidos can't sell stuff on its name alone, like Bioware or some other companies can.

Remember that neither DX1 nor DX2 sold particularly well. Deus Ex in fact only became popular over the years as a kind of "Wow this is cool, why did no one buy it?" type thing.

I don't know, look at Fallout. They were able to resurrect Fallout which was originally a traditional PC RPG, and turn it into a big console hit.
I think DX3 has the potential to be huge, and I just can't see any publisher severely limiting its potential sales by cutting out consoles.
Anecdotally, most of my friends, even the ones who aren't hardcore PC gamers, have at least heard of Deus Ex.

This comment was edited on Nov 26, 2009, 21:39.
42.
 
Re: Deus Ex 3 a PC Exclusive?
Nov 26, 2009, 10:32
42.
Re: Deus Ex 3 a PC Exclusive? Nov 26, 2009, 10:32
Nov 26, 2009, 10:32
 
It's silly to think they would leave all those potential console sales on the table. The best case scenario would be a situation along the lines of dragon age, where the game is designed from the ground up for the PC and then ported to consoles.
The more likely scenario is the game being built form the ground up to support all platforms.
Worst case scenario, which is becoming the norm, is the game designed specifically for consoles and then ported to the PC.
4.
 
Re: Deus Ex 3 a PC Exclusive?
Nov 25, 2009, 17:44
4.
Re: Deus Ex 3 a PC Exclusive? Nov 25, 2009, 17:44
Nov 25, 2009, 17:44
 
I find this awfully hard to believe. Though I certainly hope it's true.
6.
 
Re: Napoleon: Total War Imperial Edition Revealed
Nov 25, 2009, 10:00
6.
Re: Napoleon: Total War Imperial Edition Revealed Nov 25, 2009, 10:00
Nov 25, 2009, 10:00
 
Were sales figures ever released for Empire: total war? It was the first total war game I passed on. The combination of requiring steam activation and trying to charge people $20.00 extra for a few "special" units made the decision quite easy.
119.
 
Re: MW2 Key Bans
Nov 24, 2009, 22:09
Re: MW2 Key Bans Nov 24, 2009, 22:09
Nov 24, 2009, 22:09
 
Yeah, but once you have to pay customs and shipping, it's unlikely that you can make enough of a profit while at the same time undercutting the US price. And again, if it's a few scattered people trying to import a game that's only sold in Japan, then I'll agree with you that I don't see a problem at all

Gogamer is obviously able to sell games cheaper by importing them. Their import copies are almost always marked less than the US version.
Regardless though, all the costs you mention are irrelevant from the game publishers point of view. All of those costs are incurred by the importer, in this case gogamer. The game publisher is still only making the wholesale amount of the game in the foreign market.
So, would you support a publisher claiming import copies sold by gogamer are illegitimate?

That's been my whole point all along - the party that is actually (and legally) in the wrong is the reseller, who very likely violated an agreement to not resell those keys in the US (whether explicitly, or as part of some giant EULA that of course probably hasn't been tested in court). Customers who bought them (while I do personally think they got what they deserved) should certainly demand either a refund or a new key that's actually legitimate in the US from that reseller, and if the reseller loses money on the whole deal, that's too bad for them.

I don't think there would be any debate if they would have gone after their resellers for violating a resale agreement. The problem is that they instead went after end-users.
Verno also made a good point, if this is such an issue, why didn't they region lock the CD keys to begin with? Why allow a US steam account to register an asian market copy?

117.
 
Re: MW2 Key Bans
Nov 24, 2009, 21:19
Re: MW2 Key Bans Nov 24, 2009, 21:19
Nov 24, 2009, 21:19
 
The problem is, consumers stopped supporting it before this nonsense.

I know that on the internet it's the popular and cool opinion to say that piracy is all just people trying out games before they go out and buy the ones they want, but we've all heard the story about how Tribes had more people playing multiplayer at once than had actually bought the game, and having been in college fairly recently, I tend to believe that's more the norm than the outlier.

That's from the company side; from the consumer side, PC gaming is more frustrating and more expensive, which doesn't seem worth it to a lot of people (especially now that people are buying themselves giant HDTVs for their living room)

Which brings it full circle - if you want to know why companies don't give a shit about PC gaming anymore, it's because if customers don't pirate the game outright, they go to extreme lengths (which I would consider buying foreign versions of the game) to pay as absolutely little as possible for it. Why would you want to devote yourself to a market like that?

The piracy debate at this point is nothing but a red herring. Pirating exist, it isn't going to stop. End of story. If publishers truly want to succeed in the PC gaming market, they are going to have to stop focusing on mythical lost sales. And start focusing on the people that do buy their product. Instead they seem insistent to drive away as many customers as possible at almost every turn.
116.
 
Re: MW2 Key Bans
Nov 24, 2009, 21:17
Re: MW2 Key Bans Nov 24, 2009, 21:17
Nov 24, 2009, 21:17
 
I think a lot of you just have antagonistic feelings toward the "evil corporate publishers" and don't see the big picture. I have been told I take an anti-consumer stance for calling things like I see them, which is pretty telling. No, the consumer is not always right, in this case they are cheap-asses with no care for the industry.

Not going to argue it anymore, believe what you will. As the whole PC gaming industry falls around us and morphs into Peggls and WoW and as the consoles gear more and more towards the everyman you guys support the cheap-ass non-contributers out there and that just baffles me.

While some people may feel that way. I think more people, including myself. Would like to see developers and publishers succeed, but not at the expense of consumers. If they can't make it with fair business practices, than I guess they may as well leave the PC gaming market. Some other company will be happy to take their place.
115.
 
Re: MW2 Key Bans
Nov 24, 2009, 21:03
Re: MW2 Key Bans Nov 24, 2009, 21:03
Nov 24, 2009, 21:03
 
First of all, your claim that people would be defending them if they banned a company selling US keys cheap is garbage, and it adds nothing to the conversation to make baseless bullshit insults at people.

Gogamer sells import copies of many titles. Which is why the comparison was made in the first place.

Further, how far does that extend? If it's a little stand in the mall selling knock-off SNES's with game roms, yeah, Nintendo is going to shut them down but not go after people that purchased them. But again, we're talking about a situation with no limit on sales and no shipping / transportation costs. If 10 people bought their keys this way, then Valve would probably not bother, but where's the cutoff? Is it 1,000 people doing it this way? 100,000? There's a point at which the money they lose on each sale by having people purchase the heavily discounted Asian version over the US version outweighs the desire to not blame consumers.

Strange how you failed to make the much more logical comparison of Nintendo trying to shut down a stand at the mall selling imported games.

It's quite an assumption to make when you claim they are losing money when someone buys an import copy. There is no reason to believe that those people who are apparently so cheap as to buy a "grey market" cd key, would ever pay for a full price copy. Personally, I'll often only buy certain games at a reduced price. I doubt I'm unique in this regard.
Therefore, it isn't that far of a stretch to imagine limiting import sales would cause a publisher to make less rather than more money.

The other issue that hasn't been addressed at all. How do you justify Activision being paid for these CD keys and then disabling them afterwards. Do you think it is fair for them to keep that money without delivering anything in return?

This comment was edited on Nov 24, 2009, 21:24.
109.
 
Re: MW2 Key Bans
Nov 24, 2009, 10:41
Re: MW2 Key Bans Nov 24, 2009, 10:41
Nov 24, 2009, 10:41
 
I'll just throw out that I think game publishers/developers consistent anti-consumer practices could eventually backfire. Whenever any new innovation comes about in the gaming industry, such as digital distribution or DLC, it has been used 90% of the time to provide the consumer less value for their money instead of more. Gee, please buy the Sims 3 for $50.00 and then buy $300.00 of virtual items that should have been included in the original game.

The music industry did the same thing for years, even going so far as to price fix CDs. In large part because of this behavior, they now have absolutely no customer loyalty. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that no customer loyalty + easily pirated material = falling revenue.

As evidenced by this thread, it hasn't gotten that far yet for the gaming industry. Their still seems to be plenty of people that find their practices acceptable. But eventually that may change the more these companies take their paying customers for granted.
106.
 
Re: MW2 Key Bans
Nov 24, 2009, 00:32
Re: MW2 Key Bans Nov 24, 2009, 00:32
Nov 24, 2009, 00:32
 
They could have simple region restrictions, they could have reselling restrictions, they could have selling only the key restrictions, they could have endless other things. I know for a fact they do not want this, they do not want regional pricing to be circumbvented, so it makes complete sense they would put that in their seller agreements.

More to the point it is in the Steam ToS that you cannot buy keys from resellers, so that covers the end-user part of it.

Again though, if they simply bought off the shelf copies there would be no kind of agreement. Unless in asia they make you sign something when you buy software, which seems improbable.

I'm sure it says in the steam TOS that they can disable your software or ban you for any reason they want. Another reason why I refuse to give them control over my software library.
104.
 
Re: MW2 Key Bans
Nov 24, 2009, 00:03
Re: MW2 Key Bans Nov 24, 2009, 00:03
Nov 24, 2009, 00:03
 
It's pretty simple, but you refuse to see it. Banning gogamer? It's completely different, gogamer is not violating the license agreement and selling unauthorized software people! These stores do not have the right to sell these keys to these markets but they do it anyway, it is pretty clear cut. The people who use these shops know this, but they do it anyway to save a few bucks, so I feel no pity for them.

I doubt any license agreements were broken. If they were, Activision would be suing the original purchaser of these licenses and not going after the end-users.
Most likely, they have no cause against the original purchasers, so they are falling back on some clause in the steam TOS to disable the copies.

As I pointed out earlier, what kind of restrictions could be in place if these resellers simply bought 500 boxed copies in asia and resold them?
89.
 
Re: MW2 Key Bans
Nov 22, 2009, 19:39
89.
Re: MW2 Key Bans Nov 22, 2009, 19:39
Nov 22, 2009, 19:39
 
I understand that fear completely and sometimes dwell on it myself, but Steam offers so many benefits to counter that drawback it is hard not to be ok with it most of the time, especially since PC gaming is turning into Steam gaming in a lot of ways.

My hope is that steam evolves to provide more power to consumers over their purchased products. Online music sellers have done this, going almost exclusively DRM-free at this point. So there is some hope.

More to the point I think account-based ownership is going to be standard on all platforms in the not too distant future, so there is no sense fighting it. Either accept it and play games or move on.

If that happens I'll vote with my dollar and spend less on gaming than I currently do. Though I admit, it is unlikely I would ever completely stop purchasing new games.

88.
 
Re: Steam Bans Grey Market MW2 Keys
Nov 22, 2009, 19:29
88.
Re: Steam Bans Grey Market MW2 Keys Nov 22, 2009, 19:29
Nov 22, 2009, 19:29
 
But if you think Valve should just let their stuff be pirated, don't cry when Valve starts focusing on consoles.

Oh please. You go on about how someone else is dumb, and then make idiotic comments yourself. Valve is committed to the PC gaming market more so than any other company. Microsoft/Sony/Nintendo aren't going to allow any competing digital distribution services on their respective consoles.
This is where these kinds of discussions always end up, "if you don't allow publishers/developers to do (insert anti-consumer behavior),
they will stop making PC games!!!"
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