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User information for Jonah Dreyer

Real Name Jonah Dreyer   
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Nickname jdreyer
Email Concealed by request - Send Mail
ICQ None given.
Description IT Professional
Intel 3570K Core i5 @3.6 GHz
Gigabyte Windforce GTX 670 2GB
8 GB PC2100 RAM
Windows 7
Homepage http://
Signed On Oct 9, 2004, 08:44
Total Comments 21467 (Jedi)
User ID 22024
 
User comment history
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News Comments > Jess Cliffe Arrest Details
49. Re: Jess Cliffe Arrest Details Feb 4, 2018, 16:14 jdreyer
 
RedEye9 wrote on Feb 4, 2018, 14:22:
2 consenting adults where no money was exchanged.

Yeah, when you separate children and parents at birth, then introduce them as adults, strange shit can happen. It's like the strongest aphrodisiac. It's freakin' weird.

I'm opposed to putting these two in jail. What's done is done. What's best at this point for the baby is to be together to raise the child.
 
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If Star Citizen was a child conceived in a night of passion, it would have started elementary school by now. -panbient
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News Comments > Jess Cliffe Arrest Details
32. Re: Jess Cliffe Arrest Details Feb 3, 2018, 21:37 jdreyer
 
Hump wrote on Feb 3, 2018, 20:51:
mystery8 wrote on Feb 3, 2018, 18:34:
Chromius wrote on Feb 3, 2018, 18:23:
Guy messes up one time and assumes 18 and its life over.

Sad, but true. As soon as I saw the headline I knew his career and a good portion of his life is over. Whether he's guilty or innocent. Whether she lied or not. It doesn't matter. This will stick with him. He's done.

Yeah but didn't he have a lotta child porn on his PC?

Haven't seen that anywhere. Link?
 
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If Star Citizen was a child conceived in a night of passion, it would have started elementary school by now. -panbient
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News Comments > Jess Cliffe Arrest Details
31. Re: Jess Cliffe Arrest Details Feb 3, 2018, 21:37 jdreyer
 
Cutter wrote on Feb 3, 2018, 20:48:
jdreyer wrote on Feb 3, 2018, 19:11:
For better or for worse, some laws have the "strict liability" principle applied. It means intent is irrelevant. If murder had strict liability, and you kill someone breaking into your home in self defense, then you'd be looking at 20-30 years in prison. It doesn't though, so when you murder someone intent matters. In fact, we have entire layers of murder laws to address intent: first degree, second degree, manslaughter, negligent homicide, etc. The fact that this is just black and white is really, really dumb. End result: he thought he was committing a misdemeanor, but he stepped on a landmine.

Intent very much does matter as that's what sets the guidelines for sentencing. That's the difference between prison and probation. Granted the US is pretty fucked up about sex in general so he certainly stands to be in a lot more trouble than most other places on earth where people are a lot more normal about sex.


It's a good point, it might help for sentencing. Little good that will do with a sex predator rating attached to your record for 20 years.
 
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If Star Citizen was a child conceived in a night of passion, it would have started elementary school by now. -panbient
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News Comments > Jess Cliffe Arrest Details
27. Re: Jess Cliffe Arrest Details Feb 3, 2018, 19:38 jdreyer
 
Beamer wrote on Feb 3, 2018, 19:27:
jdreyer wrote on Feb 3, 2018, 19:17:
Beamer wrote on Feb 3, 2018, 18:42:
Chromius wrote on Feb 3, 2018, 18:23:
These laws are pretty one sided for modern times.

Girls, get to go out and knowingly have sex any time, anywhere with any one regardless of age. Never get in trouble.

Guy messes up one time and assumes 18 and its life over.

Three times. Three.

And if you're picking someone up near the home they live in with their parents, you should know something is up.

Not true at all. 32% of 18 to 34 year olds live with their parents. That's so many people that there's a much greater chance of them being 18 than a high school student.

But they'd have transportation, and not have to lie about someone picking them up.
Maybe, maybe not. Millenials are 25% less likely to drive than the previous generation. They have crappier jobs, less money, and prefer public transportation. Hell, I live in a walkable city and about 10% of the people I work with of any age don't own cars. And that's at a large insurance company, so it's not for lack of money.
 
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If Star Citizen was a child conceived in a night of passion, it would have started elementary school by now. -panbient
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News Comments > Jess Cliffe Arrest Details
26. Re: Jess Cliffe Arrest Details Feb 3, 2018, 19:35 jdreyer
 
Beamer wrote on Feb 3, 2018, 18:41:
Like I keep telling you guys, his knowledge of her age does not matter, only her age does. Unless this is Alaska.

It's one of the things men struggle with most in their 1L crimlaw class, but it starts making sense when you think about it. She's a child, he's a late 30s adult. He's more responsible for his actions. He can't use "I thought she was 18" as an easy, obvious excuse. And she was almost definitely 15, which is pretty damn far from 18. Freshman or sophomore in HS...

I get that, but to not count intent at all ever is just stupid. Rape is not strict liability, but stat rape is? You could set a high bar to be sure and catch actual pedos, but to nail someone with a felony who thought they were committing a misdemeanor is cruel and unusual punishment.

And don't start with "children are incapable of making decisions." The government tries children as adults all the time. It's just not right to put 100% of the onus on the adult in a case like this.
 
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If Star Citizen was a child conceived in a night of passion, it would have started elementary school by now. -panbient
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News Comments > Jess Cliffe Arrest Details
23. Re: Jess Cliffe Arrest Details Feb 3, 2018, 19:17 jdreyer
 
Beamer wrote on Feb 3, 2018, 18:42:
Chromius wrote on Feb 3, 2018, 18:23:
These laws are pretty one sided for modern times.

Girls, get to go out and knowingly have sex any time, anywhere with any one regardless of age. Never get in trouble.

Guy messes up one time and assumes 18 and its life over.

Three times. Three.

And if you're picking someone up near the home they live in with their parents, you should know something is up.

Not true at all. 32% of 18 to 34 year olds live with their parents. That's so many people that there's a much greater chance of them being 18 than a high school student.
 
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If Star Citizen was a child conceived in a night of passion, it would have started elementary school by now. -panbient
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News Comments > Jess Cliffe Arrest Details
22. Re: Jess Cliffe Arrest Details Feb 3, 2018, 19:11 jdreyer
 
Cutter wrote on Feb 3, 2018, 18:13:
DangerDog wrote on Feb 3, 2018, 16:58:
Yeah, I guess prison for sure. recording would be child porn on top of the whole non consent thing.

this guy is double triple fucked.

No, he isn't. A big part of being a criminal is intent, which is why it's called criminal intent. He intended to film himself having sex with a young woman, not a child. The intent matters. So, he won't get nailed for child porn, not statutory rape. I don't know what the laws are in regard to filming during sex so I have no clue how any of that would work out or what the punishments would be. Given he has no prior record - and can afford much better legal representation - I'd say he's pretty safe all around. He won't go to jail. Maybe some community service and some court mandated counseling or something, but that's about it.

Edit: More likely his lawyer will strike a deal to that effect so there won't be a trial. As for the civil portion of it, she'll sue for sure, no idea if he'll lose on that, but even if he does I can't imagine it would amount to much these days given how common people recording sex is and the girl's background and character. She's a sex worker so there has to be some expectation that would happen regardless and that counts as mitigating.


For better or for worse, some laws have the "strict liability" principle applied. It means intent is irrelevant. If murder had strict liability, and you kill someone breaking into your home in self defense, then you'd be looking at 20-30 years in prison. It doesn't though, so when you murder someone intent matters. In fact, we have entire layers of murder laws to address intent: first degree, second degree, manslaughter, negligent homicide, etc. The fact that this is just black and white is really, really dumb. End result: he thought he was committing a misdemeanor, but he stepped on a landmine.
 
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If Star Citizen was a child conceived in a night of passion, it would have started elementary school by now. -panbient
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News Comments > etc.
3. Re: etc. Feb 3, 2018, 19:01 jdreyer
 
RedEye9 wrote on Feb 3, 2018, 16:15:
jdreyer wrote on Feb 3, 2018, 14:15:
The ‘King of Kong’ could be stripped of his high score…

About time. Guy's high score vid had rules that only applied to him and was extremely skeezy.
What rules? this is calling him out about playing on an emulator and w/out the required checks and balances

To make a run at the highscore, you had to do it in an arcade with witnesses. However, this guy did it at home and sent his vid in. He was the reigning champ, and was afforded special treatment, and it stank.
 
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If Star Citizen was a child conceived in a night of passion, it would have started elementary school by now. -panbient
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News Comments > Jess Cliffe Arrest Details
7. Re: Jess Cliffe Arrest Details Feb 3, 2018, 14:32 jdreyer
 
DangerDog wrote on Feb 3, 2018, 13:36:
Wave goodbye to all your Counter-Strike money and career.

It'll probably be enough from him going to prison.

Yeah, not going to avoid prison. I just feel that he's going to get a lot more prison that he should, based on his intent. It truly sounds like he didn't intend to bang someone under age.
 
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If Star Citizen was a child conceived in a night of passion, it would have started elementary school by now. -panbient
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News Comments > Out of the Blue
4. Re: Out of the Blue Feb 3, 2018, 14:26 jdreyer
 
Battleship New Jersey in the Korean War: "Floating Fortress" 1952 US Navy Film MN-7834.

Cool the way they load those big 16 inch guns.
 
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If Star Citizen was a child conceived in a night of passion, it would have started elementary school by now. -panbient
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News Comments > etc.
1. Re: etc. Feb 3, 2018, 14:15 jdreyer
 
The ‘King of Kong’ could be stripped of his high score…

About time. Guy's high score vid had rules that only applied to him and was extremely skeezy.
 
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If Star Citizen was a child conceived in a night of passion, it would have started elementary school by now. -panbient
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News Comments > Saturday Tech Bits
2. Re: Saturday Tech Bits Feb 3, 2018, 14:03 jdreyer
 
RedEye9 wrote on Feb 3, 2018, 13:13:
Weinstein was just one person. Speaking of harvey, Uma Thurman shares her experiences with the bastard.

Good read. Uma's long been one of my fav actors.
 
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If Star Citizen was a child conceived in a night of passion, it would have started elementary school by now. -panbient
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News Comments > Valve's Cliffe Arrested; Suspended
53. Re: Valve's Cliffe Arrested; Suspended Feb 3, 2018, 13:45 jdreyer
 
eRe4s3r wrote on Feb 3, 2018, 11:59:

The effect on his life however will be far more severe, thanks to witch hunts

Right, once you're on the sex offenders registry, your life is basically over. It's practically a life sentence: No job, no place to live in the city, etc. So bang a girl who lied about her age, and now you've got a lifetime of misery. These laws really need to be revisited. I'm surprised these haven't been challenged under the cruel and unusual punishment provision.
 
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If Star Citizen was a child conceived in a night of passion, it would have started elementary school by now. -panbient
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News Comments > Valve's Cliffe Arrested; Suspended
52. Re: Valve's Cliffe Arrested; Suspended Feb 3, 2018, 13:13 jdreyer
 
Beamer wrote on Feb 3, 2018, 09:38:
jdreyer wrote on Feb 3, 2018, 04:54:
There's so much to unpack here. Shit.

First it's super shitty of him to record her without her consent. This goes regardless of her age. Looks like Oregon is a single party recording consent state, so it seems like he didn't need her consent legally, but it's still super shitty. What a dick move.

It's really shitty that this girl was on SeekingArrangement basically representing herself as an adult. This guy probably had no idea she was underage. He admitted he'd picked her up and banged her, if you were intentionally banging an underage girl, why would you admit that when the police came asking? I wonder if mens rea can apply here: can you prove statutory rape and child pr0n production if the intention was to perform those acts with an adult? We're in such a moment right now with Weinstein, Nasser, etc. that this question will probably be ignored.

It can be really hard to tell just by looking how old someone is. When my daughter was 13 getting ready for her freshman year, she'd go shopping and talk with the sales people: "I need X, I'm going to be a freshman." Invariably they'd ask her which college she was going to. She's 5'7" and 130 pounds of solid muscle with a 99% ACT score, so she easily looks and speaks like an adult.

The one thing this guy says that doesn't pass the smell test is that he thinks as long as he pays the woman for her time, prostitution is legal. It's illegal in Washington, with both prostitution and solicitation being misdemeanors, not felonies. Violations look typical: up to $1K in fines and 90 days in jail.

I get that we don't want to just let pedos off the hook by giving them some out like "I didn't know she was underage!!1" But sometimes it's true. However, I don't see a lot of daylight for this guy, as statutory rape is often strict liability (doesn't matter the reason). Sadly, his punishment is going to far exceed the crime he thought he was getting away with.

Only in Alaska does what he thought matter.
So, every state but Alaska is a strict liability state for Stat Rape?

Partly because you can expect adults to act responsibly, not kids, and partly because every pedophile ever would claim they thought she was 18.
As I mentioned we don't want to give actual pedos a free pass, but maybe that shouldn't be the case. It sounds like he would have done the right thing if the girl hadn't misrepresented herself. How do you avoid breaking the law? In this case, it sounds like an injustice. He's got no criminal record, and not history of doing this. From his behavior, it sounds like he had no idea. That's not right.

They rarely bother with people going after girls over 14,though. And really basically never 16, which as I said, is age of consent out there (even in states with higher, no one wants to prosecute on ages above without some other reason.) So she either was 15, which is close enough to 14, or the video makes all the difference.
But recording the video, as skeezy as that was, was the only legal thing he did.
 
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If Star Citizen was a child conceived in a night of passion, it would have started elementary school by now. -panbient
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News Comments > Cortex Command Free on Steam
7. Re: Cortex Command Free on Steam Feb 3, 2018, 12:56 jdreyer
 
RedEye9 wrote on Feb 3, 2018, 10:53:
jdreyer wrote on Feb 2, 2018, 19:39:
It takes some practice to grok the controls, but this is a super fun game. My son and I play this couch coop on the TV. It's also infinitely modable.
Cool. snagged it

Can't beat the price!
 
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If Star Citizen was a child conceived in a night of passion, it would have started elementary school by now. -panbient
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News Comments > Valve's Cliffe Arrested; Suspended
44. Re: Valve's Cliffe Arrested; Suspended Feb 3, 2018, 04:54 jdreyer
 
There's so much to unpack here. Shit.

First it's super shitty of him to record her without her consent. This goes regardless of her age. Looks like Oregon is a single party recording consent state, so it seems like he didn't need her consent legally, but it's still super shitty. What a dick move.

It's really shitty that this girl was on SeekingArrangement basically representing herself as an adult. This guy probably had no idea she was underage. He admitted he'd picked her up and banged her, if you were intentionally banging an underage girl, why would you admit that when the police came asking? I wonder if mens rea can apply here: can you prove statutory rape and child pr0n production if the intention was to perform those acts with an adult? We're in such a moment right now with Weinstein, Nasser, etc. that this question will probably be ignored.

It can be really hard to tell just by looking how old someone is. When my daughter was 13 getting ready for her freshman year, she'd go shopping and talk with the sales people: "I need X, I'm going to be a freshman." Invariably they'd ask her which college she was going to. She's 5'7" and 130 pounds of solid muscle with a 99% ACT score, so she easily looks and speaks like an adult.

The one thing this guy says that doesn't pass the smell test is that he thinks as long as he pays the woman for her time, prostitution is legal. It's illegal in Washington, with both prostitution and solicitation being misdemeanors, not felonies. Violations look typical: up to $1K in fines and 90 days in jail.

I get that we don't want to just let pedos off the hook by giving them some out like "I didn't know she was underage!!1" But sometimes it's true. However, I don't see a lot of daylight for this guy, as statutory rape is often strict liability (doesn't matter the reason). Sadly, his punishment is going to far exceed the crime he thought he was getting away with.
 
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If Star Citizen was a child conceived in a night of passion, it would have started elementary school by now. -panbient
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News Comments > Alaska Released
3. Re: Alaska Released Feb 3, 2018, 03:09 jdreyer
 
Graphics are pretty rough. I dunno, the graphics in The Long Dark are even more low-rez than these, but the art style is superior so it works. This just looks dated, and it really takes you out of the game.  
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If Star Citizen was a child conceived in a night of passion, it would have started elementary school by now. -panbient
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News Comments > Into the Black
2. Re: Into the Black Feb 2, 2018, 20:58 jdreyer
 
RedEye9 wrote on Feb 2, 2018, 19:43:
Wells Fargo shares dive after Fed replaces four board members, restricts bank's growth citing 'consumer abuses' And in a timely manner /sarcasm
Oh, and the shares barely dipped. sigh

Did they charge those 5000 people with identity theft yet?

 
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If Star Citizen was a child conceived in a night of passion, it would have started elementary school by now. -panbient
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News Comments > Evening Metaverse
1. Re: Evening Metaverse Feb 2, 2018, 19:41 jdreyer
 
Wherein Telecoms get $2B and don't roll out any broadband.  
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If Star Citizen was a child conceived in a night of passion, it would have started elementary school by now. -panbient
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News Comments > Cortex Command Free on Steam
1. Re: Cortex Command Free on Steam Feb 2, 2018, 19:39 jdreyer
 
It takes some practice to grok the controls, but this is a super fun game. My son and I play this couch coop on the TV. It's also infinitely modable.  
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If Star Citizen was a child conceived in a night of passion, it would have started elementary school by now. -panbient
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21467 Comments. 1074 pages. Viewing page 8.
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