Guys,

Its a sim. If you look at it like BF2, Quake4, CS, etc, youre going to be disappointed. Yes it has a lot of controls. Yes the learning curve is steep. No the graphics arent cutting edge.

But if you think of it like IL2 Sturmovik for the infantrymen, its one of the best games ever made. Like other great sims, once you put in the time, the rewards are much greater in satisfaction than any BF2 match.

I agree if you want easy shoot-em-up fun when you get home from work (nothing wrong with that), this probably isnt the game for you. But measured on what its trying to do, its fantastic.

Istari

Hmmm. "Aftermath" was a done deal for me, a "purchase the first day it comes out" kind of game. However, that was when it was a full-featured expansion and the quoted price over Steam was $12.99.

Somehow, 4-6 hours sounds pretty anemic after having almost 18 months to work on the expansion, and $19.99?

Now I'm waiting for the reviews. I liked Half-Life 2, but I'm concerned over the way that Valve seems to really be milking the franchise for every last penny. If the reviews are good and I'll get more than 4-6 hours of gameplay (I tend to take my time and explore), cool.

But i can also walk away from this one if it's just mediocre &/or if it really is just 4-6 hours when you take your time. Voting with our wallets is the only thing that gets through, and I have plenty of other great games to catch up with if I miss this one.

CJ

Have to say, as a 32 year old who's been playing games since Space Invaders on the Atari 2600 (25 years?), I'm grinning from ear to ear at the pasting that GTAZ is getting. And deserves.

Look GTAZ, you don't like FEAR. Great. Got it. Thanks for the opinion. But let me add another vote to stop the horsesh--t. If you want to debate the points made by people here who like FEAR, fire away. More power to you. But debate their points of substance, don't just whip out the e-penis (love that term) and dismiss them as ignorant. You're just making an ass out of yourself.

Istari

CM,

Thanks for the detailed reply. Will definitely check out those sites - I particularly appreciate some of those sites which help find the high quality mods. Yeah, I think I downloaded a single BAS mission a year or two ago and was blown away. Very cool stuff to insert as a Ranger with the mod M4!

Cheers,

Istari

This warship and HALO drop combination sound great. It's been over a year since I last messed with OFP, but this sounds interesting. Where are the best sites for these OFP mods now?

Istari

Rock Climber and others,

Hmmm - I assumed that joining a clan was the answer. Never been a part of one (in the PC gameworld anyway :>) - any tips on where to go? I have limited time for gameplaying, but would love to focus on tactics while I am doing so.

Thanks for the advice,

Istari

I've tried the BF2 demo, and I feel like it's the start of some Dickens novel... "it was the best of times, it was the worst of times."

Playing on random servers where everyone is out for themselves gets old real fast. However, I happened to land on one server where the Squad Leader was actually using VOIP and the teams were using tactics and teamwork. Made it a completely different game - totally sucked in. Then I hit lag and was disconnected. :<

So... how does one go about finding other players who use VOIP and are trying to use real tactics? Any tips for a new BF player? Just dropping in randomly to different servers isn't working.

Istari

As far as the peons that can kill with one shot from 50 miles, I'm not sure we're talking about the same game. Ghost Recon? Yeah, sure. But what I liked about OFP was that there was definitely a medium range where you had to to be cautious - where fire was suppressive but you had time to react and get cover. Remember, most battles in OFP were taking place at 100-200m, and in real-life, people can drill you pretty good with assault rifles at that range as well.

Istari

Maybe I'm overreacting, but this has the "console" smell about it. A change from a sequel to a generic "mass-market friendly" name reminds me of Thief: Deadly Shadows, DX: Invisible War or Rainbow Six: Lockdown.

The name itself is meaningless, but what worries me is that this also signals a change towards more "mass-market" friendly and "accesible" gameplay. It was the realism and the challenge of OFP which made it unique - I sincerely hope they're not going down the same path as the Ghost Recon series.

Istari

Even the most original design houses are now having to shoehorn their ideas into WWII. First Irrational shipping Freedom Force back to WWII rather than moving ahead to the (much more interesting) 1970s era of comics. Now Relic, creators of Homeworld, Impossible Creatures and Warhammer... WWII.

Yes, yes, if it's a great game I'll buy it. But nowadays, it feels like the game itself has to be really spectacular to overcome the boredom of the same setting.

PC gaming is in a rut.

CJ

Ray,

Good points, but I'm still left wondering about the underlying math.

Yes, the console market is >> the PC market. Agreed. But the competiton is also much fiercer in the console market. GR2 for the consoles is competing against a wealth of other titles out there, while it would have a relatively open field in the PC market.

Now maybe the real numbers actually hold up, and you can make a console game that's like the other console titles in its class and still make a greater profit then releasing into an empty PC market. But I also wonder if the all the marketing guys are seeing the total size of the console market rather than what they can realistically get in that space glutted with other titles.

CJ

Yup, this is what confuses me too.

Didn't Ghost Recon PC sell extremely well? Didn't Rainbow 6 and Rogue Spear sell extremely well? Didn't OFP sell >1 million copies worldwide? Clearly, there's a market for hardcore tactical war/close combat simulators.

So why did they consolize GR2 and go the "accessible 3rd person action" route? Why hasn't anyone else tried to reproduce OFP after all these years?

I just don't understand the thinking. System Shock 2 and Planescape:Torment I understand. Great games that didn't sell well, and thus haven't spawned successors. But c'mon - RB6, RS, GR and OFP? Am I missing something?!?

CJ

Based on the PC Gamer preview 6+ months ago, I'm glad to hear about the cancellation of GR2. It was clearly a consolized version that lost much of what made the original such a good game.

However, it's unclear that GR3 is going to be PC-only. If they're just cancelling GR2 PC, and then releasing GR 3 for X-Box, PS2 and PC, I'm not very hopeful.

(Still waiting for Operation Flashpoint 2)

CJ

I was stoked about this news, until I read the post that this will be a cross-platform game.

Uh oh.

Let's leave aside the technical constraints that consoles force on otherwise great PC games (hello Thief:DS). The part that concerns me more is that the mature content of the original Fallout simply doesn't match with the younger demographic of console players.

Anyone care to bet against me that Bethesda, in an effort to maximize sales across platforms, will remove mature content to earn a Teen ESRB rating?

Crap.

Istari

I'm not usually a big fan of FPS fragfests, being more inclined to Deus Ex (I, not II) or Thief style gaming. But Painkiller really is a lot of fun. If you don't have it, pick it up. It's old-school gaming done perfectly, with beautiful graphics and great "feel". It's mindless, but it's the most fun I've had in a computer game in some time.

Istari

I hope this is the heyday of console games, much as the mid-late 90's was for PC gaming. That would mean a swing back into balance eventually.

There are two things which give me a little hope for PC games:

1) All these young console gamers will eventually get old like me (31 years old), and may want more sophisticated fare. That's a BIG market in a few years.

2) The Eastern Europeans have been kicking a-- the past few years - Operation Flashpoint, IL-2, with S.T.A.L.K.E.R. on the way. They seem to have the patience and lack of marketing suits to create rich, detailed games. I just hope they'll keep at it - if I could pick one game to transport back through time and land in my lap now, it will be Operation Flashpoint 2. Can't wait for that one!

Istari

I agree with the point about lack of polish and bugs. I used to buy computer games the day they were released - but I've been burned so many times now (Battlefield: Vietnam being the latest), that I wait for months to read reviews and let the patches come. As a result, sometimes I never get around to the game - lost sales for them.

I think it's a combo of buggy, rushed software and a complete lack of originality in recent years. I can only think of *one* PC game I've heard about recently where I get excited about the concept: Evil Genius. Everything else recently has felt derivative and worse, consolized (DX:IW anyone?).

I'm actually replaying Planescape: Torment right now, and I'm still in awe of the sophistication and maturity of the dialogue. To me, PS:T stands as the perfect combination of original concept and mature execution. Of course, like so many other sophisticated, mature games in recent years (NOLF, NOLF 2, System Shock 2), it tanked at the box office.

I suppose in one sense, WE are to blame, in that the very games that are original and sophisticated have almost universally done very poorly in sales.

Don't know the answer - but I think there's a very real chance that PC gaming, as we knew it, is dead. I just hope I'm wrong.

Istari

Wow. I was not a big fan of VU, but the cumulative impact of all these closures is the distinct feeling that computer gaming is a dying hobby.

I think it really hit home the other day when I went to EB Games, and found the PC Game section behind the magazine rack. Even more telling, 1/2 the games on the shelves of this small section were pre-owned games, recycling the classics of yesteryear.

Stick a fork in it, it's done baby. My only question is whether CG will rise again in the future, or whether a hobby that looked so bright and promising in 1999 (Planescape: Torment, Thief, Rainbow Six, Half-Life) is forever gone.

Istari

Fabulous. The best part of this whole press release is the news that H&D 2 sold > 1 million copies worldwide. I'm just getting into the game now (2nd campaign) and really enjoying the complexity and detail which are lacking in so many PC games these days.

It's nice to hear an "old-school" PC game can still sell well. I was starting to lose all hope for the PC.

Istari

Have to agree with last comment - I picked up H&D 2 a few weeks ago, but am just now getting into it.

Very good game so far after the first campaign - tactical combat falls a little short of OFP, but overall very satisfying and complex game. Well worth your time.

This is old-school PC gaming, the kind that's become very rare in this age of the "consolized" port.

Istari

This comment was edited on May 31, 18:58.