Verno wrote on Dec 14, 2011, 09:49:

It's just one map, I could understand an expansion, but what?

It's not one map, it's four maps and a bunch of other minor things like weapons and such.

Of course, BF42 had two expansions and came to what? 27 maps and minor additions like 'weapons and such'. Everything from sea battles, coastal breaches, large tank battles to infantry scenarios. Yes, I can hear the arguments now, 'it takes so much effort to build models'. Yes, I realize that, only this is ten years later. It takes effort to cram it into an xbox's 256MB of memory. It's amazing that they can do that, but it's still a step down from ten years ago.

I just looked at a Wake Island video and it looks nice. Except that it's missing a few key components, I suppose that is a step up, or at least a reasonable trade-off for pretty vegetation. That's only assuming that you don't mind trading gameplay for the shiny stuff. After all, are we here for a good time or too look at the pretty waves?

I'll mention Batman this time. He had a hardon for BF2 but the veneer slowly weared away on him as time marched on. I was dazzled too but saw through it after maybe two months, I can't remember how long he trudged on.

So yes, make it pretty, kill the gameplay, ignore the bugs and then make a sci-fi version! Whoo-hoo. I tried the 2142 demo, it was broken and that was the last of my BF experiences. I heard they made some free-to-play console versions and now we are all blessed with a four pack map addon to a what? BF6? that according to EA's website, many people can't play even though they paid for it. Wonderful.

Where do I sign up for this nonsense?

I for one would be quite happy with a 1942 remake and expansion, perhaps with improved graphics. Unfortunately that's not going to happen soon.

Some things are a lot better than the older BF games, I for one will never miss the old clunky movement and weird netcode problems.

DICE has never had hitscan or non-clunky netcode. I think their 'to-hit' code has always been based on a cone of randomness and with their modern and deliberate 'RPG-lite' factor it's even worse. Personally, I think it's because they can't program a multiplayer game with the precision that id has. Or at least initially. The scope of the game and fun factor made up for it back then. As I understand it, new players are gimped on purpose, so the people that are new are not only fighting experienced players, but ones that have slightly more accurate weapons than them.

I thought that the Enemy Territory model was better. You can level up over four maps, get some minor upgrades, then it resets again and everyone is on the same level.

Anyways, I wish someone would make a good SP or MP FPS again. Tired of this monetized console crap. It's the year 2011 for fff sake.













This comment was edited on Dec 14, 2011, 11:56.

I remember in the old days when we'd buy the game on a CD, type in the code and play. A while later the patch would come out, then another that included a bunch of maps for free. You could download them fast from places like filefront or 3dgamers.

You could also setup your own server on a linux box or whatever and moderate it yourself. Stats were tracked by fans on different websites if you gave a shit about having your name in lights, there were no 'unlockables' or 'achievements'. You could use the in-game browser or third party browsers to find games by ping, users, maps, or whatever you liked. It was easy.

Battlefield 1942 was a blast for me, a great change. Then they came out with BF2, killing the subs, aircraft carriers, shrinking the maps, adding super fast planes on those small maps, slowing down infantry and sucking the 'hilarious' out of it. I believe it was still a PC game at that time but it was obvious that the same hacks and cheating were going on and since the servers weren't moderated (you had to buy them from a certified EA distributer, or some shit like that) I bailed within a few months.

I'm not sure why they did that and can't imagine going through the red tape described in the above post to play a nerfed down, hollow shell of everything that made Battlefield fun in the first place. I was really, really thinking of trying it out a little while ago, but what is this? Does it split up the community? It's just one map, I could understand an expansion, but what? How many hoops do I have to jump through to play the game with an extra map?

Whatever, I suppose I can wait another year until they sort it all out. Just not interested anymore.

I tried it for a few hours, a couple of times but got bored of it. I'm not sure why. I'm one of the few that actually liked Doom 3 and Quake 4 so I expected to at least blast through this and enjoy it 'for what it is'. But it didn't work for me.

Normally I'm pretty good with TLA's when it comes to games or anything tech but I'm at a loss here. I said ARG to my cat and probably my monitor when I read the CoDX just hit the gazillion mark. I think someone mentioned it stands for Alternate Reality Game, which in the context of Half Life, means what?

Regarding Team Fortress, have they finished making that yet? I know it's in my list of owned games but I heard they're still working on hats and balance and stuff. I know that Fallout New Vegas is almost done and coming out with a final version sometime this year.

But really, I'm at a loss for what ARG means.

crypto wrote on Dec 13, 2011, 09:56:

CreamyBlood wrote on Dec 13, 2011, 02:52:

This site has become a haven for console players gushing over mediocre games. I'll join the DX3 camp, if you play on Deus Ex mode, nerf the quest compass and ignore the radar it was okay.

You must be new here and didn't read the thread because this forum constantly reads loathing for console ports to PC. One person says ark city is the best and its followed up with 2 pages of defensive posts that go to the extent of calling ark city a "steaming pile of shit" which is absurd of course. why? because skyrim is a PC dev.

I'm not sure, but I *think* you might have just proved my point. Regardless, you did a good job of confusing me.

Bhruic wrote on Dec 13, 2011, 09:13:

Well, as Skyrim was designed as, roughly, more of the same, someone who didn't like Morrowind or Oblivion isn't going to like this game. Of course, that's like asking if someone who didn't like CoD1 and CoD2 is going to like CoD3.

Good point there. I guess I'm just whining. And the reason is that it's a damn shame to me that after all of these years we can't get a good RPG or FPS anymore, that they keep rehashing the 'established formula' without catering to the niche crowd, which I'm obviously a part of now. There's actually a couple of half decent RPG's that have come out in the last few years but I can't think of one solid shooter. I'm just crying the blues.

Creston wrote on Dec 11, 2011, 21:08:
I hope they DRASTICALLY improve the magic system. After Oblivion (not to mention Morrowind), magic in Skyrim feels utterly pathetic.

Creston

I'm really amazed by that, Creston. Normally I would respect your experience in a 4x game but never an RPG, it seems like you're getting a little bit critical.

I personally think that Morrowind was okay for awhile but got really boring, Oblivion was basically shit with OOO and removing the quest compass and Fallout 3 was completely fucked.

Now, I remember on this site when Dark Messiah of Might and Magic came out it got panned horribly as an RPG. It was only a few years later that I tried it out and it worked GREAT as an FPS (First Person Slasher). It's probably one of the last good shooters made for the PC, maybe up there with Crysis, Doom3 and Quake 4. Not great games, but by todays standards, quite fun to me. The end of an era.

I thought that recently, DX3 did a good job as a shooter if you played it hard and turned off the console stuff. Unlike Bioshock, which had a fun story but failed as both a shooter and RPG.

As someone that thinks that Morrowind was ultimately quite boring, and that Oblivion was even worse how would you critically assess Skyrim as either an FPS or an RPG?

I prefer the style of Gothic 2 or Risen: An action/adventure with RPG lite elements that work, keep you on edge, have and interesting story and is *challenging*. I've never found that in a Bethseda game, only drudgery. I suppose with all of the gushing here I won't get an honest answer, or from anyone that is a Beth fan, but Crestons comment really suprised me.

I have heard several times that Skyrim is like a Gothic with Dark Messiah combat. As much as I want to believe it, I can't. I don't think Todd or Beth can come close to pulling it off and I don't see why they would attempt to. They are second to the six billion that CoD is raking in now. I suppose the only way to find out is to play it, but I've tried that a few times.

I really don't understand why the games industry has to constantly go for the mainstream without catering in some small degree to the niche audiences. The book and movie companies do it all the time and make money on those of us that aren't into Micheal Bey flicks. Or Twilight books. Why not make a few bucks and fill a segment of the gaming crowd and give us games we like?

It's so depressing sometimes.

So this is what it has come to. The year 2011. One of the last bastions of quality PC gaming forums, Blues News, and all I hear about is Spike Awards and console games. RPG's? Amazing. What's the FPS this year? It's very depressing, really.

This site has become a haven for console players gushing over mediocre games. I'll join the DX3 camp, if you play on Deus Ex mode, nerf the quest compass and ignore the radar it was okay.

I just finished Risen, but that was 2009. Not sure what people consider RPG's on this site anymore. It's probably why I don't stop by here too much anymore, everyone has a controller or an xbox. It's a sad day indeed. 2011, my ass.

Thanks for the review Carcifer and everyone else. It sounds like that was directed more to single player but, what went wrong? It's really depressing hearing that on this site. I'm not sure if I'll time to check it out this weekend, too many things going on.

And Teddy, thanks for your definition of 'fluid movement', your explanation put it in terms that I understand. I'm used to running and jumping and either hitting an obstacle or not. I haven't played BF3 and didn't know they had animations for when you jumped onto the edge of a crate.

Icewind wrote on Dec 2, 2011, 08:15:
How about they change fluid to "smooth"? Will that placate you?

No mister Dale, it still doesn't mean anything. Movement in Doom was 'smooth'. Movement in Quake 3 was 'smooth'. Movement in Risen, is 'smooth'. What do you mean by it? What should I compare it to and what's the difference?

I've been using ESDF and right-mouse for forward for around fifteen years. What are 'smooth controls'?

What is 'smooth' gameplay? Honestly, what does that mean? People use words like these to explain their reviews of a game or mechanic of a game and it means fuck all. It says nothing.

In the eighties there was a really bad, cheesey song that featured a 'smooth operator'. I understand that. It's vague but applies to something most of us can understand. Now he is a 'fluid operator'? I'm getting images of Terminator 2.

Verno wrote on Dec 2, 2011, 08:59:
Brink overpromised and underdelivered in every conceivable way. Nothing lived up to the staged trailers, dev blogs and community interaction from Splash. The smart system ended up being a glorified gimmick that had no real impact on gameplay. The game itself had serious technical problems both related to stability and performance. The game featured an incredibly obtuse attachment system, largely meaningless character customization and a frankly bizarre SP/MP format. If all that wasn't bad enough it had very flawed team objective gameplay, marred heavily by poor map design which was previously a Splash Damage strength. They ended doing jack and shit to support it which was the icing on the turd cake.

I can't think of a game that disappointed me as much as Brink did in the past few years. Ok wait, Dragon Age 2. Not exactly the kind of company you want to be associated with

Wow. I'll take a look at it later but it sounds like one of my favourite MP FPS creators of all time took a nose dive. How did that happen, does anyone know? We can't blame it on EA, Bethseda or Ubisoft. Do you think it was crystal meth, coke and hookers or something?

I didn't know I had a wishlist so I added eleven to mine. Then I clicked on the link and because of this thread I said 'fuck-it' and bought it. It looks like it has basic RPG elements and maybe some interesting mechanics. I was never a platform guy and I think I got suckered by great advertising and word of mouth. Well, the deed is done. I hope you are all right, I wasn't even paying attention to the names of who posted in this thread.

Regarding Wolf in Germany, and I could be imagining this, they did make a version with all the swastikas removed and it passed the test so is was available. This is the part where I'm not sure if I'm wrong or not: I think I heard that despite their efforts, they missed a couple of those offensive symbols buried deep in some level that no-one would ever notice or find and the status was then revoked. This could be coming out of my ass and I don't have any proof or anything.

Nerve did the multiplayer for Return to Castle Wolfenstien and I was sold. Later on when Splash Damage released Wolf: Enemy Territory, I loved it. Especially when refined with the ETPro mod. A class and objective based game with assymetrical maps, it's my favourite MP FPS of all time. I still play it on occasion but the window of finding a good server with experience players is difficult these days.

Then I got Enemy Territory: Quake Wars. My system was slow at the time and I was working too much so I didn't play it a lot. I just re-installed it a few weeks ago and think it's a lot of fun. On paper, it has everything that W:ET did plus assymetical opposing teams (to a degree) plus vehichles. What could be better? The graphics are nice but I think what messed me up now that someone mentioned it was the locked 30fps. I've been having good times with it but maybe I should look into that. (I'm sure it must be fixed by now)

Also, I believe Call of Duty 4 came out at around the same time, was a massive hit and devolved the whole genre back into the stone ages. I wonder what Splash Damage thought of that? Here they were trying to expand and perfect a fast-paced and complex shooter into the next era and it was practicaly ignored.

I really can't think of a game like it that has been made since then. BF2/3 are different beasts. They are more of a free-for-all. They have classes but not the hit-scan, they have nice maps but aren't objective based. They use the death match mentality without forcing team-play and obviously that has worked and is what people like.

I had never heard of Brink and when it was released, I was quite surprised. But it immediately got panned at the time as it has been here in the last fifteen posts. It sounds like they dumbed it down and still didn't get it right. I'm tempted to try out the free weekend but it just isn't enough time. They should give people a full week, enough time to learn the mechanics, find some good servers and play. Especially as this is the beginning of the Christmas season, how many hours would I have. Nevertheless, I do want to see for myself as it's the only way to judge anything that you might possibly like. Maybe I'll get in a few hours before Sunday midnight.

One last thing that is just grammar nazi stuff. When did the term 'fluid' become popular? I hear it all the time in 'game journalist' reviews and the comments people make. I even hear it on the economic newscasts these days. It seems to say nothing and is a meaningless way to describe anything but it's used to describe everything: Fluid controls, fluid movement, fluid graphics, fluid gameplay. and yes, even fluidity in the economy in Europe. I took chemistry and physics in highscool. Fluidity in my fluids that flow from me in a fluid way. It's very fluid, dude.

StingingVelvet wrote on Nov 27, 2011, 10:14:

CreamyBlood wrote on Nov 27, 2011, 08:23:
I really think that comparing any Elder Scrolls game to a Gothic game and claiming they're similar is kind of insulting to Piranha Bytes.

They're similar in many, many more ways than they are different.

And Skyrim is ten times better than Oblivion, so if Oblivion is what you are going off of then you should expand your knowledge.

I can't think of many ways. Extensive dialogue, intertwined quests, choices and consequences, factions that make a difference, difficult combat, leveling that makes sense, hand placed encounters and loot, no quest compass. Maybe exploration is similar.

As to Skyrim, I don't know. I've heard everything from 'it's marginally better than Oblivion' to 'it's like Gothic with Dark Messiah Combat'. I certainly don't believe the latter. Now I can add 'ten times better than Oblivion', which means ten times better than shit, to me. I won't know until I try it, maybe next year when they patch/fix/mod the interface and fix whatever other problems it has. Just not interested, got burned on Oblivion and I don't believe the hype. Just because millions of people like it doesn't mean I will.

I'm just hoping that PB stick to their roots and make Risen 2 similar to their other games.

Paranoid Jack wrote on Nov 27, 2011, 09:43:

I would still love to see Piranha Bytes and Bethesda work together to create a new IP.

Please god, no. Let PB do their thing and let Beth do theirs. We saw what happened with Gothic 3 when they tried to go more like the Oblivion route. Plus what can Beth bring to the table that PB doesn't already do much better? I can't think of anything. Bethesda already has millions of fans that enjoy what they create, we don't need to make whats left similar to it. That's like wanting every FPS to be like CoD, which is what is happening. Please, no.



This comment was edited on Nov 28, 2011, 06:30.

I really think that comparing any Elder Scrolls game to a Gothic game and claiming they're similar is kind of insulting to Piranha Bytes.

Both games are quite different. Again, if you like Oblivion, I don't care. That's great. If you can't see the difference between them, that's okay too. I'm just stoked that Risen 2 is coming out and I hope they don't fuck it up and try to dumb it down. That's all. Carry on...

Exactly, that's why I find it 'alarming'. It most definitely will affect it in some ways. It's hardly hand-crafted if you're 'fitting in the rest'. Like I said, one of my last hopes for a good RPG. (Of the type I enjoy).

Of course, lets turn a Risen thread into yet another of millions of Skyrim discussions.

I've also heard that Skyrim is a combination Gothic and Dark Messiah. If that was remotely true I'd buy it in a second but I got burned on Oblivion and Fallout 3 and honestly don't believe that Todd and company have enough imagination or ability to do that.

If you love those games, great. I don't. (I'm not trying to summon Creston or cause a debate) As to Skyrim, maybe I'll check it out when they patch it and mod it to hell in a year or so. I do that with most games anyways. Until then, I can't make a judgment on what you say is true or not, I'll just listen to what people here and elsewhere that I know have similar tastes to mine refute or confirm that it's a game I might like.

In the mean time, I'm looking forward to Risen 2 and hope they don't fuck it up by trying to be more like Oblivion. That didn't work for Gothic 3.

Yes! I'm looking forward to this too. I think Piranha Bytes, Larian and possibly CDProject (although I'm not a fan of the Witcher) are the only hope for modern RPGs. Sorry, I think Bethseda tanked years ago and make boring, broken single player MMOs. I don't know what happened to Bioware, I wish they'd make a good game again.

This was mostly about the graphics and world design but what alarmed me is that they are procedurally generating it, then fitting in the rest. The beauty of the Gothics and Risen is that they are lovingly hand-crafted and every hill, ledge, cave put there with design and intent, every encounter, every piece of loot. It's not random and it shows, it makes a huge difference to the experience.

I hope they don't streamline it too much (and I know they will) but still keep the challenge and fun alive. I really, really hope they don't go with the flow and make it easy and boring. We have enough of those games already.

Hey kiddo, give me some good drugs and I'll slog through the boredom that you consider entertainment, 'today'. Just because you got old, Bludd, doesn't mean that I did.

This comment was edited on Oct 24, 2011, 07:16.