...are doomed to repeat it. I've seen some comments about the beta demo being released and not enough time for feedback to be applied to the "gold" version of the game. How many of you remember back when UT2003 was released? Yep, that's right, they released a demo in order to get feedback on the game...and...about two weeks later the game was "gold". Any of you that played UT2003 will remember how "different" (not) the full version was from the demo (thanks to having the ability to apply all that feedback...lol). Some blame the developers, but more often it's the publisher dictating the release schedules of games.

In any case, it just seems that ye ole history is repeating itself. I've said it before and I'll say it again, stuff like this would not continue to happen if some (a LOT of) gamers were a bit smarter and didn't have to run out and purchase a game just because it's "new" and/or has prettier graphics than the last version (including those all important screenshots on the box that help sell the game...yes, people STILL purchase games on little more info than that...lmao).

Then go get a copy of Project Snowblind. j/k

But, I do have to admit I found it to be more fun than DX2. Too bad the XBOX version didn't have split screen multiplayer capability (only System Link 1 person per screen/XBOX was supported for multiplayer). A lot of the effects for the guns (visual, sound and impact on enemies) just seemed to "fit" for some reason to me too.

Well, I could understand the demo having stuff like that as it was a port and something probably based on not 100% complete stuff (as many demos nowadays). But, if the full version (like the manual/etc.) STILL had stuff like that it in...shame on Ubisoft for that.

The way I see it, as long as game players (customers) are willing to purchase games as soon as they come out instead of waiting to find out some more info about them, that's just telling the publishers we are okay with games released in this fashion. And, if the PC market is any indication of the direction the console market "could" head...get ready for more games to be released in less than complete states (since they can rely on patches to fix things).

Anywho, the XBOX version is lots of fun in multiplayer as you can play adversarial or co-op together.

Bummer to hear the original PC version was in such a state. I have the XBOX (original, not 360) version and have found it to be loads of fun for some quick arcade style multiplayer action.

"...we had to stop a few months ago..."

So even thou people were hoping a second episode (and more) was coming along, the devs knew all this time and couldn't do/say anything about it...bummer.

Even as a big fan of SiN and WoS, I took a wait and see attitude towards SiN Episodes. After seeing many of the comments of what people got for their $20, especially with expectations of more/better to come, and now with news that there are not going to be any more episodes, I'm glad I waited.

*side note:
While not directly related to Ritual/SiN, I have to admit that I'm getting pretty tired of all the "methods" people are using nowadays to try and make money on something that is not 100% finished or similar (like paying to unlock content type of stuff). This includes games that have used the "ship now, patch later" style of release (something that used to be only seen with PC games but is now starting to creep into the console world as well due to online connectivity). And yes, there is a difference between shipping a game that later has an error discovered that can be fixed in a patch and shipping a game that has known problems in order to gain money from sales because it has been released (in whatever state).

Meh, then again, we really have noone to blame but ourselves (game players/customers) for our lack of patience when it comes to being willing to wait and see if something is worth a purchase instead of rushing out and buying a game just because it's "new". :}

Based upon some of the (behind the scenes) stories I've heard about the companies I mentioned in my previous post, it's likely there was one of two main reasons for these people leaving. One would be, like you said, they knew in advance of what was coming with the other company (i.e. the change of what they would be "allowed" to work on). The other is possibly that something during the development of SiN Episodes just didn't sit well with them and they decided to leave after seeing the project thru release. That has happened with a LOT of development teams/companies over the years.

Either way, it's more than likely Rit is not going to be the same place it was back in the day. Then again, it's pretty likely Rit "hasn't" been the place it once was for a few years now. There's only so many other people's projects you can take on and work thru (without them being something you have a real personal interest in) before you just start to feel like the guy on the assembly line just turning screws. Sure, it's a paycheck in the gaming industry, but still, without some kind of vested interest, it's harder to get the best out of people sometimes.

Dagok,
Those that played the original SiN realized that some of the most fun with the game could be had in multiplayer. The levels were fun (Spry anyone?),and, the netcode kicked the SH*T out of Hype-Life's online lagfest.

Funny thing is, Ritual's level design work is probably one of the best things they had going for them (at least at one time). Then again, it's kinda hard to go wrong when ya got Levelord working on em. :} Ritual (or at least the level designers) have had a hand in a lot of other (non-Ritual) projects over the years (including stuff like CPL).

Anywho, about the sale, it's not "too" suprising with some of the top people leaving recently. That kind of bleeding often attracts sharks in hope of an easy meal. At the least, I would rather have read this than to have read that they shut down like Ion Storm (Austin), Digital Anvil, Acclaim Austin or Origin (yeah, they were Austin companies, but they all went under after releasing games that didn't hit in the "top" area of sales/etc.).

Riley Pizt,

You are missing what I am saying. It's the amount of NEW content that people are paying for in either case. Otherwise, especially for the sports titles, there would be no reason to purchase the new version as gameplay doesn't usually change. So, whether there is a small amount of new content or story, it's still a small amount that people are paying for (be it in an espisodic or yearly sequal format). EA has just convinced people (or they have convinced themselves) that it is worth paying full price for that small amount of new content.

There is NO WAY that I believe the yearly released sports titles are only purchased by a "hardcore minority". Those games are very often in top sales slots for good periods of time. That means a lot of people, not just a small miniorty, are purchasing these titles. Even if some people are skipping a year or two, the sales figures don't seem to be affected greatly by those few.

If SiN Episodes had been released for $35 instead of episodic format, it still would have been the same game...gameplay, in game assests, etc. That is what hurt what was released, not just how it was released.

Riley Pizt,

I wasn't conveniently overlooking the difference. Whether the "new" content is related to story or in-game assets, my point was that for what "new" stuff people get, in sports titles or episodic releases, it is basically the same amount overall. Yet, EA has been able to rake in the bucks by getting people to purchase a new game each year using this model (which is basically episodic content/releases).

You missed what I was saying about SiN Episodes being episodic not hurting it. What I meant was that it wasn't the fact that it was episodic that hurt it, but, the gameplay/conent of that episode that hurt it (basically as you said).

Eye 4N Eye,

True about sports games being the SAME game. I'm still suprised people are willing to pay full price for what could effectively be an update patch. Pretty sad...lol.

*****

I think another one of the things that hurt SiN Episodes was similar to what happened with Blood and Blood 2. Blood has LOTS of humor and a "fun" feel to it. They basically did what they could to include a lot of humor in the game (ala Duke Nukem, Shadow Warrior). However, when they made Blood 2, they tried to "grow up" and make a more realistic type of game. For that series, it just didn't work (i.e. lost the feel of the original) EVEN thou it followed the same gameplay type/style of the original where you kill lots of the same type of enemy over and over (hmmm...just like F.E.A.R. which was also from Monolith).

In the same way, SiN had lots of (tongue in cheek) humor and over the top aspects to the gameplay. SiN Episodes basically had Blade on mute mode which affected the tone/feel of the game. And, like Blood 2, SiN Episodes had less of an over the top (comic book) tone as well. It would be like making a sequal to Big Trouble in Little China without the humor/fun. It just doesn't work when people expect a certain "feel" too it. Again, this is something that affects every developer that tries to meet the expectations of gamers when they release a sequal.

After reading a few post reguarding episodic content, something hit me...it already exsists. Just look at all the sports titles that come out for consoles every year.

1) A new game is released each year (2006, 2007, etc.).
2) Some of the assests from the previous year's game are often reused in the new one (3D Models/animations/etc.).
3) The amount of new content isn't "that" much more than the previous year's release (not to mention gameplay in many cases).
4) People pay (full price) for the releases on a schedule (yearly) even if (thou) the amount of actual "new" content does not equal that of a full new game.

It's just a long term episodic model, which many people don't seem to mind all that much. EA's titles released like this are more closely related to episodic gaming than actual sequals (new games).

So, it wasn't episodic content that hurt SiN Episodes. It was SiN Episodes that hurt SiN Episodes. The "hardcorp" fans of the original that were willing to purchase the new game had certain expectations that were not fully met. If you can't meet the expectations of those willing to stick by something that wasn't as "popular" in the first place (like the original SiN, say compared to Half-Life), then you can't expect those people that were not into it before to adopt the new version as strongly either.

Halo was popular/well known/etc. So, it was easier to get people not as into Halo (some of which never even played the original) to purchase Halo 2 (even if you do want to call those people sheep for jumping on the bandwagon). The original SiN was a real fun game (imho), but, it was not Half-Life/Halo level popular. In order for SiN to increase it's fanbase (especially considering the episodic/downloadable aspects of the game), it would have to please the fans of the original first. Then, and only then, would there be a better opportunity for the game's fanbase to grow beyond what the original game had, i.e. an ability to convince people to pay for episodic content in this fashion.

This comment was edited on Dec 22, 00:21.

"As it turns out, hitching their wagon to Valve became as much a curse as blessing."

That's what happens when you make a deal with the devil Valve. :}~~~

I've played my fair share of online PC games. So, don't get me wrong when I say that while M$ is making strides towards online gaming as a wave of the future (where they believe the profits are located), I just don't agree with their strategy at this time. PC gaming went online YEARS ago, and with the exception of a VERY few titles released, the vast MAJORITY of them have not made the companies that created them a dime.

Sure, XBOX 360 is M$'s sand box, so if you want to play, you have to pay (which is the way they want it). However, for the original XBOX, Live only had a 20% subscription rate...that's not active user rate but "subscription rate" (which most likely includes a large number of those 2 month free trial cards used for accounts that were later cancelled before the fees hit the credit cards). So, that's an 80% majority of users that found ZERO need (or ability if they didn't have broadband) to even sign up for a free subscription of Live.

Sure, broadband is becoming more widespread, but, can't PC online gaming (which as been around for a while) be used as a type of previous test market example? Many PC games with online capabilities have done the VERY same thing with the majority of players only playing a game offline (against friends/LAN/bots or just single player missions only). How many copies of BF1942 were sold vs the number of active players online? (oh, and it was free to play online beyond the dialup/broadband cost, something that can't be said for XBOX 360 Live gameplay...pay to play online didn't even work for Dreamcast either).

People already have PCs for video downloads/etc. Sure, it's a nice "value added" feature in the XBOX 360. But, people purchase game machines TO PLAY GAMES FIRST AND FOREMOST. Anything beyond that is "nice", only if it's useful/used by the purchaser.

Oh well, what do I know, I'm just a gamer, not a corporate employee of M$. I'm just the guy that does (or does not) spend my money on what I see as a good deal (or not). :}

The problem is many gamers don't have ANY patience when it comes to stuff. They have to have it NOW and can't wait one minute. So, as much as we want to blame the greed of these companies, they are only able to get away with what WE as gamers (aka paying customers) let them.

Don't like something, then don't use it (or buy it RIGHT when it comes out). If enough people are willing to do this, the companies will get the message. However, as things stand now, it doesn't look like that will happen any time soon. When people are willing to rush out and purchase the next Madden/Halo/etc. game without even knowing what's new (or not) about the title, things are not likely to change.

I'm not putting all of the blame on gamers, because there is a lot of greed with many of these companies. However, we have to accept our part in the equation as well.

The groundwork for this had been laid a while back. Just look at banner ads on websites. And, it's not suprising that EA was the company to spearhead this for gaming. Just look at their static ads in games like Burnout 3 Takedown, the Fight Night series, etc. The only difference between that style of in-game ad and the new version is that the ads/billboards will be able to change over time to relflect/advertise new games.

As long as they don't start having popup ads that block your view while playing the game (lol), it should not be "that" different than now. Perhaps the ads will eventually recognize what game you are playing and focus on that game type for the ads. At least I wouldn't have to see all those Tiger Woods Golf ads (a game which I could care less about) when I go back and play something like Burnout 3/etc. :}

This comment was edited on Aug 31, 11:25.

pgoeleven,

It's not hard to see when you consider James Cameron directed both movies (Terminator first in 1984 and Aliens in 1986). Also, Cameron started out in the special effects field designing/building models/etc. If you get a chance you should check out some of his original designs for Terminator stuff in the softcover T2 movie book.

I can agree something needs to be done about property taxes, as we were impacted a good bit by what we could afford in a house last year due to them. You may find a house that's $20,000 less than another, but, if the property taxes are just a "little" higher, it can put the house outside your affordability range. Keep in mind that the $20,000 is stretched over 30 years worth of payments. But, $4000 worth of taxes is only split into 12 monthly payments.

One of the big reasons Texas politicans are trying to do something about property tax is due to the fact that Texas is one of the few states left that funds it's education system with them. Unfortunately, this means that the lion's share of money for the schools must come from the home owners (whether they have kids in school, go themseleves, or not). It's become a pretty big bone of contention for many home owners.

So, the politicians are all coming up with their "little plans" for solving this problem (short of a state income tax, which Texas does not have currently). Since games happen to be a focus of the media, it's an easy target. Unfortuantely, increasing the taxes on games 100% will do more to decrease their sales (within Texas) than it has done for cigs and beer. There's addiction, and then their's "Addiction".

I was a big SiN fan back in the day. I went to the SiN CoN in Austin, Texas held at Origin Systems (1999). I even helped create some models for the SiN2UT and SiN Arena projects. I've told a lot of people about SiN and Wages of SiN (WoS) over the years and how much I enjoyed them (even more than Half-Life). In any case, when I first heard about another SiN game coming out, I was excited. I had been waiting and hoping the people at Ritual would get a chance to do the SiN thing again.

However, when I heard about it coming out via Steam, I pretty much lost interest right there. Had it been something like Half-Life that was being offered via Steam and on store shelves, then perhaps I would have considered it (even thou it was associated Valve). To this day, I still own SiN and can load it up and play it any time I want. I don't need tie up harddrive space by holding onto install files, or, re-download them later (if Steam would be available at that time).

Even if the game were offered in the stores, it would probably be like Half-Life 2 where you would have to "authenticate" (aka download the rest of the game) before being able to play it. This could also affect the ability to play the game in the future if Steam were to go away.

There was talk of a possible release of SiN on store shelves later down the line (after several episodes had already been released on Steam). Then a thought came to me. Didn't Valve and EA get into some type of agreement recently? If true, then SiN Episodes would likely be published by (shudder) EA. Not one of my favorite publishers.

In any case, as much as I loved SiN, I'm unwilling to put my issues with some of this stuff aside, even, for THIS product. I would almost rather drive to Dallas, pay the Ritual guys $50 and get a finished version than to deal with Steam and/or EA. Granted, that may be a bit old school thinking, but then again, I'm an old school gamer...lol.

Bummer for RatBag. Good luck to those now lookging for work.

We played the H3LL out of Powerslide at LAN parties. It was one of those games where we spent more time bashing each other around than actually racing (especially with weapons turned on). I still have it on my computer to this day and fire it up every now and then just for fun. I just wish they would have released a 3D Studio MAX plugin to create more maps.

If you've never played it, see if you can get hold of a used copy somewhere just for the heck of it. Also, if you've got one, use your steering wheel to play it...weee.

It's obvious M$ was trying to hit that historical (barrier) price point of $300 for the XBOX 360. Unfortunately, they did so by offering a "gimped" version of the system. If the backlash from backwards compatability alone wasn't enough of a clue, then M$ just sorta missed the boat by offering the cheap version that doesn't support it out-of-the-box.

In any case, I have a pretty decent idea...
1) M$ should completely drop the cheaper "core" version of the XBOX 360.
2) Remove the eithernet cable, the headset, the DVD remote and the HD component cable from the more expensive version.
3) Put together the follwing, and ONLY, package...one console, one wireless controller, one 20 Gig hard drive and one basic video cable (non HD component one).
4) If M$ can not bring this package in at a $300 price point, then charge no more than $350 for it.

Okay, let em charge $360 for it. The ad campaign can be "A 360 for $360!" :}~~~

Okay, even if the comments by John Carmack are a bit overstated, the idea (or prevailing notion) seems to be the PS3 is more difficult to program for. Combine this with the news post from a couple of days ago about the EA Fight Night 3 footate, http://www.totalvideogames.com/news/EA_Promise_Fight_Night_3_Xbox360/PS3_Identical_8186_5020_0.htm , (not to mention the rumored higher price) and it looks as if the PS3 may have more of an uphill battle in the next gen console wars than Sony expects.

The Sega Saturn had similar problems during it's time. Even thou it was the best platform at release, it was considered difficult to program for. And, it was more expensive than anything else on the market. Seeing how that situation turned out for Sega, especially considering it was Sony (Playstation) that profited from Sega's mistakes, you would think they wouldn't be willing to make similar ones. Then again, the view from the "top" is always a bit different.

Even if the PS3 has more horsepower, if publishers like EA are willing to develop for the lowest common denominator console, that extra PS3 power may not be needed. If true, then titles purchased by Average Joe/mass market gamers (i.e. the majority of the market) will not reflect the "need" for the extra expense of the PS3.

Ah console wars are always interesting times... :}