User information for m00t

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m00t
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Description
m00t
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Signed On
March 4, 2003
Total Posts
418 (Amateur)
User ID
16358
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418 Comments. 21 pages. Viewing page 19.
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9.
 
Re: No subject
Jun 22, 2004, 12:34
9.
Re: No subject Jun 22, 2004, 12:34
Jun 22, 2004, 12:34
 
It probably went like this:

GW: Dude, your game sucks. We're canning it. You've had years and the best you can do is 3 craptastic models and 2 environments. Get lost.
Climax: But but but but but look!!! it's good!
GW: We don't need to spend any more millions on an MMO Q1 based game, bye.
Climax speaking to public: Our hard work and dedication to this excellent project has unfortunately gone to waste because GW is not willing to pay us to sit on our asses any more.

Good riddance.

33.
 
Re: No subject
Jun 21, 2004, 16:14
33.
Re: No subject Jun 21, 2004, 16:14
Jun 21, 2004, 16:14
 
Hrm. That was the 3025 thing right? I don't think that was MS... I think MS could do a decent one. They have the animation technology for the mechs. Certainly have the money to support it and the licenses to all of FASA's stuff.

Mech Assault 2 looks friggin' awesome. Way better than MA1 was which I was thoroughly dissappointed with as a battletech player.

26.
 
No subject
Jun 21, 2004, 15:42
26.
No subject Jun 21, 2004, 15:42
Jun 21, 2004, 15:42
 
After I saw the videos/screenies of this I thought the publisher was out of their minds and the the developers weren't born with one.

It was the kind of modeling and animation that wowed us back when Q1 was released, if even that good. Good riddance.

re: mmo's in general.
Pay to play is here to stay, true. But I think they have a long way to go before it is truly mainstream. Online gaming in general is still a drop in the bucket compared to where it will be in a few years.

I do wish they'd make a _good_ MMO FPS and a good MMO RTS. Planetside is cool to a degree, but I want more. A battletech MMO (full universe with jumpships, dropships, aerospace, mechs, vehicles, infantry, etc) would be amazing.

The thing that most MMOs seem to lack is the feel that you're in a huge, epic universe. Most of them feel like they're as big as a BF1942 map and then I get to wait 30 seconds to load the next one. Screw that. I want to be able to take off from my dropship in orbit, fight through a fighter screen and strafe the enemy regiment advancing on a city.

CoH is a nice distraction. I like that I don't have to commit 3 hours to it to get anywhere. The city is cool with some very large zones (I'd still rather have a contiguous planet scale map... c'est la vie).

It's possible, it just needs to be done.

Merge Eve's interstellar travel, add independence war space battles, mechwarrior mechs, bf1942 versatility and infantry, UT2k4 vehicles. Bring to a boil and let simmer for 3 years.
3. Profit!!!

11.
 
No subject
Jun 10, 2004, 10:42
11.
No subject Jun 10, 2004, 10:42
Jun 10, 2004, 10:42
 
While you're thinking about that, think of the number of electrons.
Or heck, the quarks!

5.
 
Re: Oral sex lessons to cut rates of tee
May 27, 2004, 11:22
5.
Re: Oral sex lessons to cut rates of tee May 27, 2004, 11:22
May 27, 2004, 11:22
 
As long as there are no parent-teacher conferences on the subject...

Now, do they have in-class examples?

17.
 
Re: Lack of Birthdays Fatal
May 27, 2004, 10:10
17.
Re: Lack of Birthdays Fatal May 27, 2004, 10:10
May 27, 2004, 10:10
 
Fixed a number of ladder related bugs

FINALLY.
That's the one thing that _REALLY_ pissed me off in the game, physics/gameplay wise. The ladders were HORRIBLE.
I'd get to the top and immediately the game would spin me 90 degrees left or right and would not let me get off the top of the ladder.

Climbing down was a serious pain as well.

re:lagging and warping.
It's pretty bad over 110ms but if you can find a server that you ping ~30 - 80 to you'll be fine so long as everyone else pings about the same... which is where the real problems come in.

Judging by the issues with lag, the client is semi-authoritative on it's position leaving the game open to speed/teleport hacks to a major degree. Someone w/ a 200ms ping frequently teleports when viewed by someone w/ a 30ms ping making it very difficult to hit them.

16.
 
Re: No subject
May 27, 2004, 10:06
16.
Re: No subject May 27, 2004, 10:06
May 27, 2004, 10:06
 
I disagree with the "Save point system was perfect". It was very good for the majority of the game but there were 3 points where they needed to add another one.

Tension is one thing but getting through a major battle and then having to play for 20 more minutes to get to a save point only to be killed by a falling rock that is nigh unavoidable is not fun, does not create tension and does not encourage people to purchase more offerings from the company.

Also, they could have made the ending of the game more interesting. It was very predictable and not really all that fun.

The voice acting was B grade at best. Over acted in the extreme, mis-timed with animations and some of it just didn't make sense.

I liked the game up until the last 20 minutes of play and then I really wish they had ended it earlier when it was still pretty good.

Multiplayer is really fun, though.
Great engine, simply beautiful. Predictable, cheesey, ripped off from just about every other game you can think of story.

4.
 
Re: No subject
May 27, 2004, 00:44
4.
Re: No subject May 27, 2004, 00:44
May 27, 2004, 00:44
 
Go to console
type
\save_game

voila.

You'll have to hit esc to load the game after dying the first couple times, but it worked fine for me.

I needed it a couple times near the end where i was just getting bored with the stupid fights that had no point.

Really, they should have ended it a couple levels before they did. Oh, and hired real voice actors.

32.
 
Re: Another link
May 22, 2004, 00:52
32.
Re: Another link May 22, 2004, 00:52
May 22, 2004, 00:52
 
Where did you find this gem? Do you think they created their game selling screenshots without AA/AF?

Actually... Yes.

Screenshots (box art, posters, media releases) are rendered at extremely high resolutions (usually 4x or 9x 1024x768, maybe higher) at 32bit color and then scaled down to the size for printing so it looks a lot better than it would even on the best system.

This is standard practice in the industry.
Some games use AA/AF with this, some don't or custom fit it in there just for the media samples and then pull/disable it in the final release due to bugs, unsupportedness (more trouble than it's worth maybe), or simply because they don't have the time to finish it.

Really.
Where do you think those high resolution X-Box and PS2 screenshots come from? You don't think the game will run higher than 640x480 on your TV... Do you?

10.
 
Re: Sega??
May 18, 2004, 13:29
10.
Re: Sega?? May 18, 2004, 13:29
May 18, 2004, 13:29
 
One of my pet peeves is Hollywood tearing up history http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3217961/ (half way down). Troy is plain crazy for that. The writers have done a history pick 'n mix that would make Mel Gibsons' William Wallace blush. People who watch films but rarely read books or watch documentaries on history must have the most bizzare notion of what happened in the past. I can appreciate a little poetic licence but really.. I'd hate to think what cross pollination from film my knowledge of history has...

So is that to say that The Illiad is straight up in line with reality?

It was inspired by the events of the Trojan War / The Illiad. It never claimed to be an exact copy of the historical events or the book.

*EDIT: Fixed italics
This comment was edited on May 18, 13:30.
76.
 
Re: The real reason Co-op isn't on the PC
May 14, 2004, 13:49
76.
Re: The real reason Co-op isn't on the PC May 14, 2004, 13:49
May 14, 2004, 13:49
 
1) Ahh.. I'm more programming oriented so I wasn't quite following that perspective of thought correctly.

2) Didn't dispute the bitmap issue.

3) x,y was used from a topdown perspective (try and find an old Doom editor). The Z (when on screen in game would be up/down) is calculated from the floorheight and sector ceiling height. the sectors are defined as lines that have a facing (defined by the order in which you create the points on the lines) which tells the engine which side to put what texture on. The Z position is "faked" in that everything is really on a 2d plane in regards to collision and the game world, only shifted by the rendering engine. Part of what this means is that no two objects can occupy the same x,y coordinate but it gives the illusion of a true 3d world.

4) In doom sprites are rendered very quickly and never need to rotate. basically they scale by distance and are drawn flat on the screen. No need to generate a polygon to draw them on, just draw the frame straigtht on to the screen at the write time (dependant on the distance from the camera relative to walls and other objects)

4) Scripts are really just fancy triggers. What you can do with them is really up to how much you want to implement in the engine. Some scripts are C++, some are external languages (LUA, python, unrealscript, etc)

5) In the industry, time == money. They are inseperable. If the developer is independantly wealthy and does the groundwork, it's possible. But it is technically challenging from a design and production standpoint and generates a lot of possibilities for bugs that would normally not come up. Most developers just don't see it worth their time/money.

As for co-op, how many of those games wrote their own engine? I can't speak for H&D or DD, but MOHAA I believe is licensed Q2 engine. Not writing your own engine saves you thousands, if not millions of dollars and, unless you're already in a financial position to make one, is the way to go. It frees up a tremendous amount of time to get in to art production and level design from the start without waiting for the engine to be completed just so you can see if your design works.

Come up with a scripted scenario that you think would be cool in a coop setting and I will list a bunch of things to consider and lets see what compromises we would have to make to get it to work.


6) agreed... I have to get back to work

73.
 
Re: No subject
May 14, 2004, 13:04
73.
Re: No subject May 14, 2004, 13:04
May 14, 2004, 13:04
 
Well, he's two buildings down from me. I guess I could just go and ask or something. But I think that would be kind of awkward.

And probably get me fired.

re: co-op for one but not the other:
VV doesn't have to do as much work to get the single player version in line as a lot of the content is already there for them which frees them up to put more bells and whistles in to make up for the lowered overall quality of the game. At least, that's my take on it.

70.
 
Re: No subject
May 14, 2004, 10:21
70.
Re: No subject May 14, 2004, 10:21
May 14, 2004, 10:21
 
Reguardless, the decision to do another Doom game lead the firing of an id employee. btw i do beleive you quoted me as saying "or someone important" and yes it was Paul Steed but the name escaped me at the time.

Steed was a bit of a jerk anyway.

When he was fired it seemed more a retaliation and control trip... "We control you. Do what we say" Made an example of him I guess.
I dunno. He always seemed pretty immature to me.


69.
 
Re: The real reason Co-op isn't on the PC
May 14, 2004, 10:15
69.
Re: The real reason Co-op isn't on the PC May 14, 2004, 10:15
May 14, 2004, 10:15
 
"Actually the original legacy based Doom series were bitmap/ sprite based characters and the walls were polygonal. What this meant is that the subroutines that involked the simple manners of telling one avatar to focus on the first John(s) that moves or strikes resulted in a food fight. "
I'm not exactly sure how that is relevant to the discussion at hand. The walls weren't polygonal. In fact there wasn't a single polygon in the game. The whole engine was a raycast-based sector algorithm. It wasn't 3d at all. Basically it takes the player's x,y position and draws lines from there out along a 90 (or something around 90) degree arc in front to determine where the walls are. Scales the walls by distance at each edge and draws the wall up to the point where the sector "ceiling" would clip in front of it. It was an illusion of a 3d world but in reality it was 2d.

Doom and Quake always had the ability to handle multiple targets. Ever notice what happens if a grunt shoots another grunt in the back? But overall the AI was pretty dumb. "I see an enemy, therefore I path toward it and attack it". No complex behaviors. No use of cover, no waiting for backup. Just mindless attacking until the player was no longer in range/view.

Quake1 had very simple scripts (mostly door triggers and monster triggers). They didn't seem like big elaborate scripted sequences because they weren't. But they did have scripts. Having multiple players made it easy to abuse. (IE, "Wait here while I trigger this door. Jump through the exit so we don't have to fight any of the monsters" or sometimes the action would trap one player in a section causing them to wait for the level to finish).

Quake2 had quite a bit more scripting and was even easier to break due to the semi-persistent level design and hub structure but it still didn't play a major role in gameplay, it was mostly just fluff and triggers for doors and platforms.

Valve saw the flaws in Q1 and Q2's lack of story and wrote a... wait for it... script to make the game environment more lifelike and interesting. But then, I don't recall there being a co-op mode in Half-Life. The reason scripting played a big part in half-life is because they built the game for it when they started. It wasn't something they tacked on 3 months from ship. They knew what they wanted when they started (well, sort of.) and planned for that.

Half-life was as linear as quake was. I have yet to see a truly non-linear FPS. Far cry is pretty nice with choices but ultimately you have to go down a certain cooridor. There is no simple way to make a game that is not linear but still has a coherent story. I challenge you and every other person, developer or not, to come up with a detailed system that works. If you do it and prove that it works you've got a million bucks in your hands. Seriously.

Starcraft is the same. They knew they wanted large scripted sequences and planned for it from the beginning. The "responded to more than avatar" is less fore-thought and more a result of the nature of RTS games. Each player has multiple units, therefore each entity has to consider the possibility of more than one unit. "Avatars" really were just units with names and different stats. They weren't all that different from regular units in regards to code.

You have to design for co-op in advance or it makes it very easy to see broken areas of the game which makes the game look sloppy. Good co-op is hard. You have to keep track of where all the players are in each script and handle for them not being together. Make sure they don't stick around in an area that a single player would have to backtrack to in order to complete the level. Your AI has to account for multiple targets. Your level spawns have to be balanced for multiple people, including items. What if player A picks up a Key and leaves the game? B, C and D are screwed because the key is gone from the world. Give it to the other 3 players automatically? Well B was standing by the door that needs the key. He just walks in to the exit and advances the game. Player A doesn't have to forge his way through a million monsters that a single player would. Have the key respawn? Well in the single player game a wall came down after entering the key room, I guess BCD are trapped on the other side of it.
The list just goes on and on. Every single trigger, switch, key, monster spawn, item spawn, player respawn, script, save game point, and hallway has to take in to account everything you could do with more than one player. It is not a simple task. I applaud Vicarious Visions for taking it on and I don't blame id for avoiding it. VV gets a lot of stuff straight from id so they don't have to do it themselves. That frees up a lot of dev talent to work solely on the co-op consequences.

The powers that be did not decide that it was cheaper. The nature of linear tracks simply is that it is cheaper than multiple tracks. There is no way around that. It always will be cheaper. More content presented in more complex manner will always be more expensive to produce and maintain than a single track story. That's simply the economics of the situation. I would *love* for it to be more simple. I seriously want this sort of thing. It's just prohibitively expensive to design and build. Look at the sacrifices MMOs have to make. There's really no plot or story in any of them. There's narrative, but not story line. No plotline to follow and discover that hasn't been discovered before. Just kill this monsters, read the same story that everyone else gets to read in the MMO, pick up the same item already being vended by a hundred different players. Not the same kind of immersion as a single player game at all. And I think they suffer for it.

If you know so much, why aren't you making the game you describe? Grab an engine off garagegames. Write some AI. Get your name out there, make a million. If you really have the talent then there's obviously a market out there for you and the game you want to make.

P.S.
If you are refering to Peter Molyneux...
I think I'll just keep my mouth shut about him. >:(

60.
 
The real reason Co-op isn't on the PC
May 14, 2004, 00:08
60.
The real reason Co-op isn't on the PC May 14, 2004, 00:08
May 14, 2004, 00:08
 
They didn't want to do it.

Simple as that.

That wasn't the game they wanted to make.

Why is that hard to believe?

And co-op (good co-op) is hard to do.
Co-op in Quake and Doom was patched on top of the single player game. It was very easy to cheat the scripts and get through the game faster and was horribly unbalanced. Yes, it was fun, but at this stage if id wanted to put co-op in the game as an official feature they would have to balance it and make it so that there was no way to break the scripts.

Vicarious Visions built their version of it from the ground up to support co-op. This is not a small task and at this point it would probably delay the PC version at least a year to add. The Xbox version has had to make some serious sacrifices to fit into memory (64mb really isn't all that big when it comes down to it.). Several levels have been broken apart to compensate for the RAM limitation. Texture resolutions dropped, monster polygon levels dropped (won't be that noticable due to the normal mapped lighting when viewed on a TV).

The games will be different experiences and the experience that the version on the XBox will offer is not the vision id had when they got down to what they wanted in the game. If you don't like it then by all means don't buy the game. The game really is as much for them as it is for us.

That said, I want my fucking co-op.
Praise be to mod authors.

32.
 
uhh..
May 13, 2004, 14:26
32.
uhh.. May 13, 2004, 14:26
May 13, 2004, 14:26
 
The Dude...
You know where Gabe Newell used to work... right?

Ever wonder why there are no linux ports of half-life?


31.
 
Video Array
May 12, 2004, 18:25
31.
Video Array May 12, 2004, 18:25
May 12, 2004, 18:25
 
From reading the article it sounds like it will go something like one of the following options. I will not speculate on how non-identical cards would behave:

All solutions present the problem that you have to duplicate the data in memory of each card. I'm not up to snuff on the PCI bus but I think this is possible by just telling both cards to read the data off the bus at the same time (as opposed to sending it to each of them individually)

1) Each card renders 1/2 the screen (either SLI or a split along some axis). Video Array hub stitches the image together and passes it to the video card.

2) Each card renders the full scene, doing 1/2 8xAA. The Video Array hub combines the 2 halves of the AA image together and reduces the resolution as normal and hands off to video card.

3) Each card renders alternating frames. The Video Array hub is used simply to alternate which card the monitor is reading the image from.



3 Seems to be the easiest solution to implement but has some drawbacks that make it infeasible. Some effects that use the frame buffer would not be possible due to having the frame buffer across two cards (after images/ghosting tricks, motion blurs). It would be possible to copy the buffer between the cards but that would tax the bus pretty heavily.

1) Presents a lot of the same problems as 3) due to each card only having half of the picture available to them to work on. Additionally if one card takes longer to render than the other one card will be waiting for the other to finish. This is a minor consideration in the long run (and gives the card time to grab things out of main memory) but depending on how the image is split may result in one card doing a lot more work than the other. SLI would probably be the fastest but would also be one of the worst when considering after image effects and the like.

Option 2) seems to be the best possibility. Each card would have the full frame information to do after image effects on, would be doing exactly 1/2 the work of a single card renering the same image. The Video Hub would have to be more complex and the their added layer should be able to handle the task of telling which card what to render, but it seems to be the most likely option.

18.
 
No subject
May 4, 2004, 00:08
18.
No subject May 4, 2004, 00:08
May 4, 2004, 00:08
 
Uh, AVP2 anyone?

This game will probably be good. Maybe not ground breaking, but not a level grind wankerdom of FF2 or Lineage 2

17.
 
No subject
Apr 28, 2004, 11:45
17.
No subject Apr 28, 2004, 11:45
Apr 28, 2004, 11:45
 
No problems with popups here...
but then I run Opera and XP SP2 which both block pop-ups by default.

I can stand the once a day ad. I can stand ads in the page.
I cannot stand pop ups.

55.
 
Re: Anyone affected?
Apr 22, 2004, 19:44
55.
Re: Anyone affected? Apr 22, 2004, 19:44
Apr 22, 2004, 19:44
 
Legally speaking Piracy is not theft.
It is copyright infringement.

By downloading a game someone does not deprive someone from purchasing the copy downloaded. It still exists on the store shelves to be purchased.

This is one key distinction a lot of people don't seem to get. It is not stealing. It is not theft. That is not to say it is not wrong. Which is also not to say that the practices of the game publishing industry aren't wrong either.

And by decline of CD sales you mean increase?

418 Comments. 21 pages. Viewing page 19.
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