Couple of good reads from both sides.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,1072-662789,00.html

and

http://www.opinionjournal.com/editorial/feature.html?id=110003453


An example of how the paleo-liberal left has fallen so deeply into self-parody that any comedian with a shred of common sense need look no further for political material for years to come.

ROFL

Never explain--your friends do not need it and your enemies will not believe you anyway.
Elbert Hubbard (1856 - 1915)

LOL I really don’t care about achieving 400 even though I may further the cause. I agree this thread is dead, but I would say it’s been dead a long time. It could have been half as long and still accomplished as much. I don’t believe anyone’s mind was changed over the course of discussion. I may be wrong of course. For those of you who just enjoy the exercise of debate a lot, I guess the banter was fun.
As far as my “goofy” quote goes, I may not agree with it fully, but I think it sums up my pessimistic feelings about this thread nicely.

Never explain--your friends do not need it and your enemies will not believe you anyway.
Elbert Hubbard (1856 - 1915)

http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment-ijaz041003.asp

Never explain--your friends do not need it and your enemies will not believe you anyway.
Elbert Hubbard (1856 - 1915)

Well said Mike, and thank you for your service. I'm afriad the fighting will be long over before you get thru to many of the posters here. I guess that's no excuse not to try.

The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.

It's no use trying to convince babar and his cronies about the validity of the war, it ain't gonna happen. Waste of breath ya know. So laugh a little and go on with life.

What is the Iraqi air force motto?
I came, I saw, Iran.

Have you heard about the new Iraqi air force exercise program?
Each morning you raise your hands above your head and leave them there.

What's the five-day forecast for Baghdad?
Two days.

What do Miss Muffet and Saddam Hussein have in common?
They both have Kurds in their way.

What is the best Iraqi job?
Foreign ambassador.

Did you hear that it is twice as easy to train Iraqi fighter pilots?
You only have to teach them to take off.

How do you play Iraqi bingo?
... F-16 ... B-52 ... F-18 ... A-10

What is Iraq's national bird?
Duck.

What do Saddam Hussein and General Custer have in common?
They both want to know where the hell those Tomahawks are coming from!

Why does the Iraqi navy have glass bottom boats?
So they can see their air force.

The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.

I'm not a regular poster here but I guess I have some strong feelings on this issue, as many of us do.

2) The anti-war sentiment isn't based on the belief that Saddam is "not so bad", but rather that a very large number of innocent people will die for reasons that to many seem unclear or irrational. So regardless of how much of Saddam's "true nature" we see, there will still be a very strong anti-war sentiment.

I think all people are anti-war, I mean no one wants war. For lack of a better term, I guess it will have to do. There is just no other way to disarm Saddam. I have not heard a rational alternative solution from your like-minded(anti-war) crowd yet. Just that war is bad, peace is good. Seems like a no brainer right?

War is NEVER good. It might be necessary, but that does not mean it is *good*. As for what it'd take to get the "peaceniks" on board, giving peace a chance would be a start. Working within the confines of the UN might be another. Showing the supposed proof of WMD would be another good step. Ultimately though, some people will never support war. Whether that's right or wrong is a bit big of a debate that I'm not going to get into in this message, but they certainly have the right to feel that way, and express those thoughts with the world.

Giving peace a chance...Working within the confines of the UN....hmmm I thought that's what we tried for 12 years through 17 UN resolutions. If Saddam were going to disarm he would have by now. The burden to do so was on Saddam. It cannot be further simplified. If the UN cannot enforce its own resolutions then it has outlived its usefulness IMO. You really think France, Germany, Russia, or China are thinking of what's in the best interest of America? As far as proof, if you are American then you voted, or were given the chance to vote (if over 18) for the people in office that acquire the proof with which to make these decisions. To think that the president is required to prove to Pedle Zelnip that he has the proof that justifies this action is kinda ridiculous. Can't you consider the fact that even showing the proof could put the operatives that acquired it in danger and negate their future usefulness? My point is the people we put in office are supposed to be better informed to make these decisions.

the last thing we need is a guy like Saddam giving a terrorist a chem/nuke bomb.
Absolutely, but I have seen no proof that would persuade me to believe that Saddam is in a position to do this. You might respond to that with "but we have to stop him before he can", to which I'd respond, okay, but give me a general principle that will determine with any kind of clarity when we are justified in preventing a nation from developing military force? If posession of WMD is an offence that warrants war from another nation, when why haven't we declared war against Korea, China, India, the Soviet Union, or for that matter Britain? All have very powerful WMD, and in many (if not all) cases, all have nuclear capability. Why is the US justified in attacking Iraq (which may not even have WMD), and not these countries?

I almost don't know what to say to this. You really think Britain and Russia are a threat to world peace? You think Saddams leadership is somehow comparative to Tony Blair? If you can't see the difference, you wouldn't understand the explanation. Personally I am very impressed that Blair stands for what he believes in in the face of even the opposition of his own party. He's basically killing his career for the sake of his belief that this is necessary.

So, to the peace necks: Do the hard thing, stand up for something that's worth fighting for. Help protect your country, show some backbone. It may not be original for you and you may not get as much attention, but it's the right thing to do.
Okay this point I strongly disagree with, because PEACE IS MOST DEFINATELY WORTH FIGHTING FOR. Preventing the death of who knows how many innocent Iraqi civilians is MOST DEFINATELY WORTH FIGHTING FOR. Making world leaders consider the morality of their actions is MOST DEFINATELY WORTH FIGHTING FOR.

This country would know no peace if we hadn't fought for it. You think leaving Saddam in power brings peace or justice to the Iraqi people? If so you need to enlighten yourself. Saddam kills his own people by the thousands. Sure war kills people but hopefully not many and only over a short period. The way our forces seem to be going about it with precision I don't think many non-combatants will die. The hope is that the region will be better off when we're through.

I must say I didn't vote for Bush of think much of him at that time. He has grown in my eyes since then. I still don't think he is a perfect president, but he at least is doing what needs doing. These are just my thoughts...geez I got to get back to work.

War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.
John Stuart Mill (1806 - 1873)

The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.

Bravo Blue.

The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts.

Too bad there is no min. age requirement for these forums. To think these people are the future of our society.
But to stay on topic....I will probobly own both (new)Unreals and Doom3 and be content. I won't give an opinion as to which is better 'til I play them, as I lost my crystal ball yesterday. Even then it will only be my opinion nothing more. Frag on!

And the chosen one came forth, Defeater of many, Mentor to the Gods, He stood proud before his minions and said "lol pwned :P"