|
|
 |
| [July 20, 2008, 6:13 pm ET] - Share - Viewing Comments |
An
Investigation into Outsourced Development on CNC Generals World has an
interesting look at how recent Command & Conquer games have been outsourced to
studios with no experience with the series. They also outline what connections
remain in the current development scheme with the old Westwood days, and
correlate the review scores of outsourced games versus "in-house" games. Thanks
Ant and
Command and Conquer DEN.
25 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
< Prev [ 1 2 ] Next >
| 25. |
Re: Games Cost $$ |
Jul 21, 2008, 18:04 |
Beamer |
|
|
Raven is based in Wisconsin. Rogue was in Texas. They operated at the same time. One is gone. The other isn't. They had nothing to do with each other. Not a single damn thing. Just two separate companies with five letter names beginning with R that made FPS games. |
| 24. |
Re: Games Cost $$ |
Jul 21, 2008, 14:57 |
DG |
|
|
Back on outsourcing, it's no different to doing anything else. It can be done well, or poorly.
It's a question of making the right decisions. Unfortunately, management in any industry are often already chasing a cheap profit when they consider outsourcing, and so are in the frame of mind to make bad decisions even before they start thinking about it.
|
| 23. |
Re: Games Cost $$ |
Jul 21, 2008, 14:41 |
DG |
|
|
Wiki also suggests Rouge dissolved and several employees went to Nerve. A quick googling shows some "profile" pages which support this.
It was Nerve who made the multiplayer portion of RTC Wolfenstein, with the singleplayer by GrayMatter. The RTCW expansion-turned-standalone Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory was developed by Splash Damage. The (canned) singleplayer side of it was failed by Mad Doc.
Raven have been going for a long time, and prior to the forthcoming Wolfenstein game have never touched the series.
|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
http://theslip.nin.com/
"Well son, a funny thing about regret is, it's better to regret something you have done, than something you haven't done. And by the way, if you see your mom this weekend, would you be sure and tell her..." |
| 21. |
Re: Games Cost $$ |
Jul 21, 2008, 12:06 |
Lesaonar |
|
|
'Rogue has been gone for years.'
Same company... Rogue changed their name to Raven...
|
| 19. |
No subject |
Jul 21, 2008, 10:00 |
dryden555 |
|
|
With so many employees quietly coming and going from various game developers big and small every month, it isnt a huge distinction to say a game was developed "in-house." Blizzard is a great example of a continuing exodus that never seems to stop. Bungie and EA too.
|
| 18. |
Re: ... |
Jul 21, 2008, 07:25 |
muttbunch |
|
|
The article is really stretching beyond what the source information says. It basically demonstrates that expansions score lower than the actual games... It also doesn't take into account how much the fact that the developers were unknowns may have affected the reviewers' scores. Big-name devs routinely are given passes on minor issues that somehow become major problems when found in the games of lesser-known devs.
|
| 17. |
Re: Games Cost $$ |
Jul 21, 2008, 06:53 |
Beamer |
|
|
Rogue is/was hardly a fledgling company. I guess they were so fledgling that they couldn't afford to have put out Hexxen either, right? They're now Raven software. Yeah, but that's not right. Rogue was the one that did Condition Zero and Alice. Raven is the one that did Hexen. Raven still exists. Rogue has been gone for years.
Anyone that was active in the gaming community back then was more than aware of the practice, which jasn't changed at all. It's no different than one developer paying another developer to use their game engine (Duke Nukem Forever anyone? How many engines have they paid licensing fees for now? 4-5?).
I think you're confusing "separate game" with "expansion pack." |
| 16. |
Re: |
Jul 21, 2008, 04:32 |
Rseman |
|
|
I'm thinking alzheimers, rav'en lunatic, or you're just being a rascally rogue down the rabbit hole with Alice. Or just plain old fashioned wrong.
|
| 15. |
Re: Games Cost $$ |
Jul 21, 2008, 02:37 |
Lesaonar |
|
|
'So you're saying id sold the rights to the Quake 2 universe for two fledgling companies to make expansions for Quake 2?'
Rogue is/was hardly a fledgling company. I guess they were so fledgling that they couldn't afford to have put out Hexxen either, right? They're now Raven software. No idea if Xatrix was fledgling or not.
And none of this is accusation or conjecture, it's fact. Anyone that was active in the gaming community back then was more than aware of the practice, which jasn't changed at all. It's no different than one developer paying another developer to use their game engine (Duke Nukem Forever anyone? How many engines have they paid licensing fees for now? 4-5?).
|
| 14. |
... |
Jul 21, 2008, 02:23 |
theyarecomingforyou |
|
|
The article is really stretching beyond what the source information says. It basically demonstrates that expansions score lower than the actual games (no surprise there), with the exception of Zero Hour (an outlier, possibly due to being considerably older). It also shows that the First Decade bundle wasn't was poorly received but considering it was just a bundle of old games that's hardly surprising either. Very rarely do expansions / add-ons improve upon the original (HL2:Ep2 / The Orange Box being a clear exception).
The conclusion that I come to, from the information provided, is that EA produced a bunch of mediocre add-ons and a poor compilation of old games. The biggest problem is that actual games aren't outsourced but only expansions / compilations are - that basically makes a comparison very difficult.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Founder of the "I Hate Smiley Fitz" society
Remember: Riley has autism. He has trouble communicating, and in an overstimulating
environment, he can get frightened and run away, leaving his parents frantic. - Auburn
This message was edited at Jul 21, 02:24. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Founder of the "I Hate Smiley Fitz" society
"Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it, misdiagnosing it, and then misapplying the wrong remedies."  |
| 13. |
Re: Games Cost $$ |
Jul 20, 2008, 23:41 |
Beamer |
|
|
Neither expansions were outsourced. Rogue and Xatrix bought the license to use the code. There's a huge difference between outsourcing (cheap) and paying id for the right to use their code. So you're saying id sold the rights to the Quake 2 universe for two fledgling companies to make expansions for Quake 2?
Not only do I think you're wrong, but I think that's worse than outsourcing. Outsourcing is paying someone else to make your expansion. You're accusing id of forcing someone else to pay them to make an expansion. |
| 12. |
Re: Outsourcing.. |
Jul 20, 2008, 23:34 |
Karl_L |
|
|
well Im saying is the quality was shoddy, and I barely had time to make it even look acceptable. Its nothing I'd wanna show on my portfolio so I got zilch out of it creatively maybe I was just lucky to have a pay cheque but I wonder where the games industry is heading. Less time, less creativity for *Most* studios and they blame us because the management cant schedule the assets properly..ya know.. With the last project I worked on, we had a team from one of our company's other studios do some of the art.
Kind of out sourcing in a way I suppose.
Anyway it was horrible and exactly what you described.
It took a lot of time to clean it up and it still looked terrible, not something I would ever want to show off.
It would have taken just as much time to remake it all from scratch, except that we weren't allowed to do that.
|
| 11. |
So what |
Jul 20, 2008, 23:31 |
RP |
|
|
If the game is good and bug-free, I don't care if it was outsourced or made in-house. I'm of the opinion that every C&C post-RA2 has been shit, however.
|
| 10. |
Re: Games Cost $$ |
Jul 20, 2008, 23:22 |
Lesaonar |
|
|
'Quake 2 had outsourced expansion packs'
Neither expansions were outsourced. Rogue and Xatrix bought the license to use the code. There's a huge difference between outsourcing (cheap) and paying id for the right to use their code.
|
| 9. |
Re: Games Cost $$ |
Jul 20, 2008, 22:50 |
Beamer |
|
|
Hell, Diablo had an outsourced expansion. Warcraft II had an outsourced expansion.
Everyone here loves Blizzard and hates EA. Blizzard pretty well helped pioneer the outsourced expansion packs... |
| 8. |
Re: Games Cost $$ |
Jul 20, 2008, 22:47 |
Beamer |
|
|
This isn't anything new, is it?
Gaming companies have outsourced expansion packs for over a decade now; Quake 2 had outsourced expansion packs. Xatrix did one for Quake 2, then went on to do Redneck Rampage, Kingpin, Wolfenstein, and a CoD expansion. Rogue did the other.
Hell, even the Red Alert expansion packs were done mostly by an outsourced company.
The brains behind the games go on to do the next one. They're tired of what they've been working so long on and want to advance. They sketch something out and send it along to a newer company looking for work and unable to get funding for their own project. It works for both sides - the original team gets to work on something new and put what they've learned into action and the new team gets something put on their resume. |
| 7. |
Oh, that explains it... |
Jul 20, 2008, 22:44 |
JohnBirshire |
|
|
recent Command & Conquer games have been outsourced to studios with no experience with the series.
|
25 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
< Prev [ 1 2 ] Next >
|
News script copyright © 1999-2009 James "furn" Furness & Blue's News.
