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Left 4 Dead 2 Announced

l4d2_pc_box.jpg - 894,699 bytes Valve announces Left 4 Dead 2, a sequel to their multiplayer zombie shooter slated for release exclusively on PC and Xbox 360 on November 17, almost exactly a year after the release of the first Left 4 Dead. There's a hands-on preview of the game on Rock, Paper, Shotgun, and as this release describes, the sequel adds new items, melee combat, and more zombies:

June 1, 2009 - Valve, creators of best-selling game franchises (such as Half-Life and Counter-Strike) and leading technologies (such as Steam and Source), today announced Left 4 Dead 2 (L4D2), the sequel to the best-selling and critically-acclaimed co-operative multiplayer thriller.

Coming exclusively to Xbox 360 and PC, L4D2 promises to set a new benchmark for co-operative action games and become one of 2009's marquee titles.

"A large part of how Left 4 Dead became 2008's top-selling new IP on Xbox 360 and the PC was the custom-tailored gameplay made possible by the AI Director," said Gabe Newell, president and co-founder of Valve. "With the knowledge gained from creating the original, new technology, and a passionate team, L4D2 will set a new benchmark for cooperative action games."

Set for release on November 17, the title adds melee combat to enable deeper co-operative gameplay, with items such as a chainsaw, frying pan, axe, baseball bat, and more.

Introducing the AI Director 2.0, L4D's dynamic gameplay is taken to the next level by giving the Director the ability to procedurally change weather effects, world objects, and pathways in addition to tailoring the enemy population, effects, and sounds to match the players' performance. The result is a unique game session custom fitted to provide a satisfying and uniquely challenging experience each time the game is played.

Featuring new Survivors, boss zombies, weapons, and items, Left 4 Dead 2 offers a much larger game than the original with more co-operative campaigns, more Versus campaigns, and maps for Survival mode available at launch.

Supported by a $10+ million marketing campaign, Left 4 Dead has sold over 2.5 million retail copies since it was released in November of 2008. Left 4 Dead 2 is targeted for release on Xbox 360 and the PC on November 17, 2009, and will be launched worldwide with a multi-million dollar marketing campaign across TV, Outdoor, and Online.

"Left 4 Dead was backed by our most aggressive advertising campaign to date, and resulted in a top 5 showing on two platforms during holiday 2008," said Doug Lombardi, VP of marketing at Valve. "Left 4 Dead 2 is a larger game and will be supported with even more consumer and retail advertising programs than the original."

Left 4 Dead 2 will be featured as the cover story on PC Gamer and Official Xbox Magazines this month. For more information, please visit www.l4d.com

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150 Replies. 8 pages. Viewing page 1.
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150. Re: L4D2 Announced Jun 7, 2009, 01:25 The PC Warrior
 
I care about promises. This is an obvious cash-in at the 360 market and the PC market is being dragged along for the ride. It's shameless and no one should support it, there are plenty of other great PC games out there and will be a lot more available when this game drops in November. Avoid it and send a message that the PC will not be treated like a console. Encouraging this sort of behavior will ensure a third title in a year while the second game languishes from lack of bugfixes and content.  
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149. Re: L4D2 Announced Jun 5, 2009, 16:42 Bhruic
 
They haven't kept many promises about L4D, why should I believe they will for L4D2?

Who cares about promises? Buying a game on promises is a really dumb idea. You buy a game based on the game. If you get more out of it down the line, that's great, but that's a bonus, not part of the original package.

When it comes down to L4D2, I'm going to check out the features of the game when it's released, and decide if it's a game I want to play. Missing out on what could be a great game because I don't like something the company did seems to hurt me more than them. But like last time, I won't be buying it on what they might do with it, I'll be buying it based on what it actually is. Everyone should do the same.
 
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148. Re: L4D2 Announced Jun 5, 2009, 14:47 Verno
 
He's not fat, he's big boned.  
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147. Re: L4D2 Announced Jun 5, 2009, 14:39 Masa
 
A multiplayer game should last you for at least a year.

I'd love to see that scale you use...
 
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146. Re: L4D2 Announced Jun 4, 2009, 08:53 Verno
 
I think they're all referring to a dollar/hr entertainment ratio.  
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145. Re: L4D2 Announced Jun 4, 2009, 00:04 Jerykk
 
You say you put a "good 50 hours or more." into Left 4 Dead. Most people would call that pretty good value per dollar.

For a multiplayer game, that's pretty bad value. A multiplayer game should last you for at least a year.
 
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144. Re: L4D2 Announced Jun 3, 2009, 08:32 Verno
 
Valve can make whatever claims they want about the new games content. They haven't kept many promises about L4D, why should I believe they will for L4D2? For all I know the other guy is right, they will just announce another sequel when we all buy it next year. Sorry but if I wanted yearly installments, I'd go play Madden.  
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143. Re: L4D2 Announced Jun 3, 2009, 06:29 theyarecomingforyou
 
I don't think any reasonable poster believes they're owed DLC but they certainly can't be faulted for expecting it.
I think that sums up this topic.
 
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142. Re: L4D2 Announced Jun 2, 2009, 23:38 Dades
 
I didn't know that about the maps not being able to be served via the server. Seems kind of strange to me, I'm guessing they have their reasons. But it does do one thing...prevents a plathora of orange maps being spewed out from the community. As for it being beta...that means little. Red Orchestra SDK is still labeled as Beta. Google Mail has forever been labeled "beta". It's available in the Tools menu and not via the beta opt-in screen.

It's still unfinished and there is no way of actually adding any maps you design except manually to the server then forcing users to get them from a website or something similar.

I agreed, what more do you want me to say? They have a big update coming to address this in the next few weeks.

Believe it when I see it.

I've had it take me to an empty lobby once in 6 months. I've had it put me on a Co-op server twice and a Survival server once. Both of which only occurred after the Survival pack update. I'm sure they are working on it. Chet has said they have a list of things they are working on with regards to this and they will get released. Obviously I have more patience than most...seeing as none of these are game-ending. It takes about 2 seconds to click quit and select Versus>Quick Match again.

Of course you say that, it suits your argument. You even say it despite it being listed as a major bug on the steam forums and the community complaining frequently about the state of matchmaking. I don't know what else to say here, it's pretty well known that people dislike the matchmaker for obvious reasons but you can continue to deny it all you like I suppose.

What do you expect when you have the rabid fanbase bitching and whining a mere 4 or 5 months after the games release that there hasn't been any DLC yet. You expect too much.

Expecting them to fix longstanding release bugs 6 months after launch is not expecting too much. You're the one claiming we all want a smorgasbord of DLC. I'd be happy with just some fixes to start, we can worry about DLC later. They can't even seem to get that part right.


Considering how many maps there were, the changes to all the walls (what breaks, what doesn't) the coding changes, the new map, changing the 10 Versus maps, and testing all of this...yours and so many others expectations are far too high. So whatever your supposed Hammer experience is...it's not enough, because far more is required than just basic Hammer knowledge.

You can try to discredit me but you're not proving your point by saying "it takes a lot of work!" without anything to back that up. 90% of the content was recycled, most of the work required was map related. There is only a single new map featuring new entities and it's a Survival mode map.

The peoples problem...not Valve's. They have raised the bar pretty high for themselves. Even having done that, they still make mistakes. Unlike most companies, they generally react to those mistakes. No matter what they do, they are never going to make everyone happy all the time.

It's really Valve's problem if they care about their bottom line. A steam group formed last night to boycott L4D2, in a single day it's over 2000 members. There's still a lot of months to go. Everyone likes money, even Valve. They better move quickly.

I've kept a $50 game (being Call of Duty: World At War) just to play through once in Coop, and go back to the poorly supported Nazi Zombies every now and then. (very buggy and poorly implemented server/matchmaking/friends setup)

What matchmaking? There is none in WaW. The server functionality is quite solid, their dedicated servers are amazingly stable and functional, not to mention they have all the usual features server admins expect. The friends list isn't buggy, it's just quite basic and has no frills. They have added more zombie related content than L4D has since it's release so I wouldn't be so quick to ding that game. 2 DLC releases, two large zombie levels with unlockables and perks. The second features interactive terrain defenses and they both even feature unlockable terrain portions so you can choose which sections to defend. It's like L4D's co-op and survival mode wrapped into a single package with more features. Many people buy the game just for those portions. I wouldn't be shocked to see Treyarch release an actual zombie game at some point given it's success.

Point is, who the fuck cares? If you enjoy playing a game, what does it matter if it's free DLC or you have to pay for it?

It matters when you call it a sequel and charge full retail price for it. DLC is one thing, a sequel is another. They could have easily labeled this an expansion pack but they didn't because then they couldn't charge $50 for it. They could have also released actual DLC too but they didn't, not even paid DLC.

You say you put a "good 50 hours or more." into Left 4 Dead. Most people would call that pretty good value per dollar. Saying you didn't like it that much and moving on is one thing. Saying you won't buy a new product with the claim they owe you free DLC...that's quite ridiculous. But it's your choice. Forgive me if I think yours and others reasoning behind your entertainment decisions are quite ludicrous.

We've explained ourselves quite well, you just don't want to see our side of it. I can see how people would be satisfied with what they have in the game already and that's the difference between us. I can observe another person's perspective in a reasonable manner and you cannot. We're all "ludicrous" because we don't share your view. You're basically calling us freeloaders when some of us aren't even asking for much here.

You still haven't addressed the potential quality of the sequel either. You ignored quite a few of my points that you had no rebuttal too. How many other companies put together a full fledged sequel with more content than the original(their claim, not mine) in under a year? How many times has Valve done that in the past? People are worried they're getting the other half of L4D1 for the cost of a full priced game with good reason.

I won't be purchasing this game because that's how I speak to companies - with my wallet. You can slap whatever label on it you like but it doesn't change the fact that I was this games biggest fan a year ago and I'm unhappy now. I doubt I'm alone too judging by how many other posters responded similarly and how few are actually taking this positively.

Valve has a chance to make this right. Give people who own the original a discount or something. But it's very easy to go from plenty of good will with the community to EA-status quickly. I hope they don't toe that line too long.

This comment was edited on Jun 2, 2009, 23:45.
 
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141. Re: L4D2 Announced Jun 2, 2009, 23:27 Prez
 
Saying you won't buy a sequel, released in less than year, to a game you paid full price for and expected more from is ridiculous?

Nope.


Oh, you weren't asking me, were you?
 
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140. Re: L4D2 Announced Jun 2, 2009, 23:09 Sepharo
 
Saying you won't buy a sequel, released in less than year, to a game you paid full price for and expected more from is ridiculous?

I don't think any reasonable poster believes they're owed DLC but they certainly can't be faulted for expecting it.

This is Valve we're talking about not EA.

As Prez explained, we're going to be more cautious in the future, starting with L4D2.
 
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139. Re: L4D2 Announced Jun 2, 2009, 21:50 Krovven
 
The beta is out right now. It's not the final version and there is currently no way to get user maps to the players through the server.

I didn't know that about the maps not being able to be served via the server. Seems kind of strange to me, I'm guessing they have their reasons. But it does do one thing...prevents a plathora of orange maps being spewed out from the community. As for it being beta...that means little. Red Orchestra SDK is still labeled as Beta. Google Mail has forever been labeled "beta". It's available in the Tools menu and not via the beta opt-in screen.

Like a few other people have already mentioned, the matchmaker is notoriously awful.

I agreed, what more do you want me to say? They have a big update coming to address this in the next few weeks.

It frequently dumps you into empty lobbies or full servers. It also has the tendency to put Versus players on co-op servers.

I've had it take me to an empty lobby once in 6 months. I've had it put me on a Co-op server twice and a Survival server once. Both of which only occurred after the Survival pack update. I'm sure they are working on it. Chet has said they have a list of things they are working on with regards to this and they will get released. Obviously I have more patience than most...seeing as none of these are game-ending. It takes about 2 seconds to click quit and select Versus>Quick Match again.

From a development standpoint little had to go into these maps so I can see why this game mode was released.

What do you expect when you have the rabid fanbase bitching and whining a mere 4 or 5 months after the games release that there hasn't been any DLC yet. You expect too much. Considering how many maps there were, the changes to all the walls (what breaks, what doesn't) the coding changes, the new map, changing the 10 Versus maps, and testing all of this...yours and so many others expectations are far too high. So whatever your supposed Hammer experience is...it's not enough, because far more is required than just basic Hammer knowledge.

Unfortunately many people do not expect Valve to do stuff like this.

The peoples problem...not Valve's. They have raised the bar pretty high for themselves. Even having done that, they still make mistakes. Unlike most companies, they generally react to those mistakes. No matter what they do, they are never going to make everyone happy all the time.

I will say that the announcement disappointed me quite a bit and that I will not purchase the followup.

I will say it surprised me. There may have been a glimpse of disappointment initially, but I'm willing to see what they come up with. Based on liking Versus mode, along with what we've heard from Chet and the Previews, I'm willing to pay for L4D2.

I've kept a $50 game (being Call of Duty: World At War) just to play through once in Coop, and go back to the poorly supported Nazi Zombies every now and then. (very buggy and poorly implemented server/matchmaking/friends setup)

Killing Floor is...ok. Nothing great, but alright for a few games now and then. To me it has more of what the Survival mode in L4D should have had to make me really enjoy it. But also lacks some of the "fun" of how Left 4 Dead plays.

Some would argue that Killing Floor has more content for $20 (I payed $15). Then there are others that would argue that you are paying for a mod. Killing Floor was a mod for UT2k3/UT2k4.

Point is, who the fuck cares? If you enjoy playing a game, what does it matter if it's free DLC or you have to pay for it?

You say you put a "good 50 hours or more." into Left 4 Dead. Most people would call that pretty good value per dollar. Saying you didn't like it that much and moving on is one thing. Saying you won't buy a new product with the claim they owe you free DLC...that's quite ridiculous. But it's your choice. Forgive me if I think yours and others reasoning behind your entertainment decisions are quite ludicrous.
 
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138. Re: L4D2 Announced Jun 2, 2009, 20:26 Prez
 
That's true, but to me as a company, Valve would be well-served to ensure that the companies that operate under them do business "the Valve way" regardless of where they came from.  
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137. Re: L4D2 Announced Jun 2, 2009, 20:20 Kosumo
 
I've recovered from my being owned (as much as I can) to return and say that a lot of this, imho, is due to this being from Valve and lots of people think "it's the HL/TF2/CS guys doing this!!" when is it not the case that Valve just brought another company (Trutle Rock Studios?) and their current game (L4D) and released it a few month later as a Valve game?

Please don't hurt me
 
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136. Re: L4D2 Announced Jun 2, 2009, 20:00 Dades
 
First off, I have read the thread from the beginning, just FYI

- SDK, took awhile to come out. But it's out now. Complaining about this is petty. Most games never see an SDK, let alone post-release support. The reason for this has already been said by Chet. They simply wanted to make sure all custom content would work with L4D2 right away.

The beta is out right now. It's not the final version and there is currently no way to get user maps to the players through the server.

- Matchmaking and Dedicated Server selection from Lobby...I shut down my server because of this. I was quite vocal about it, and I can only hope I like what they do with the upcoming Matchmaking patch. In the end it hasn't stopped me from enjoying Versus using the Quick Match function.

Like a few other people have already mentioned, the matchmaker is notoriously awful. It frequently dumps you into empty lobbies or full servers. It also has the tendency to put Versus players on co-op servers. These are all well documented problems and have been from the beginning with no fixes in sight despite the sequel already being announced.

- Survivor mode. I'm not a fan, I've stated this at least a dozen or more times. I was expecting a twist...there isn't one. It's very spammy with the majority of people using the same tactic...find a corner that can be exploited and stick it out as long as possible.

That's putting it lightly. From a development standpoint little had to go into these maps so I can see why this game mode was released. I have done some Source mapping and while I'm not an expert with Hammer, I can tell you that they basically had to cut up levels, redo some lighting and set entity placements for spawn points. There's nothing earth shattering there in terms of time.

- Content at release and DLC...this is entirely subjective. This seems to be the biggest sticking point for a lot of people. We'll simply have to agree to disagree.

It's hard to disagree with one single new map and two Versus campaigns that should have been in the game from the beginning. From a content viewpoint that's about the same as sidequest planets in Mass Effect - lazy and obviously an afterthought. Many devs do this, it's not unexpected in the world of software at large. Unfortunately many people do not expect Valve to do stuff like this.

It's one thing to say that people expected too much. Maybe that's the case, maybe not. It's almost unprecedented for a game to have so many problems and be lacking in many areas of content yet a sequel is announced less than a year later. Stew on that for a bit. That's a pretty short time to be bringing another title to market, even for a veteran developer like Valve who is actually notorious for long product development time and delays.

Given all of that I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that they were developing the sequel all along. That by itself would not be a big deal, people expect followups to their favorite games. I think most people expected at least a single patch of meaningful content and the original to be fixed beforehand though. Yes, Valve has said they're going to fix it. As someone else has pointed out Valve has said many things regarding Left 4 Dead and I don't have faith anymore that they will fulfill those promises. Why? Very few of them have actually been met.

You put all of that together and it's easy to see why people feel upset and some feel outright ripped off. Personally I paid full price for the game, was a big proponent for it on these boards and when I first heard the announcement my thought was "They have to be fucking kidding".

Now I can't say I didn't get my moneys worth out of Left 4 Dead. I played it a good 50 hours or more. I will say that the announcement disappointed me quite a bit and that I will not purchase the followup. If they still have not fixed problems in the first game, why should I believe they will do any better for the next? What makes me think that Valve will not simply release another sequel next year? People are always happy with Valve because they take their time to polish their products properly and are well known for post product launch support. That's why people are unhappy with this, it goes against everything people have come to expect from Valve.

This comment was edited on Jun 2, 2009, 20:15.
 
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135. Re: L4D2 Announced Jun 2, 2009, 19:46 Krovven
 
I have discussed the problems I have with L4D in the past. Maybe try reading this thread from the beginning. It was never a discussion on actual problems. It was some saying they were looking forward to the game, the rest were people bashing the game and jumping to conclusions.

Problems...

- SDK, took awhile to come out. But it's out now. Complaining about this is petty. Most games never see an SDK, let alone post-release support. The reason for this has already been said by Chet. They simply wanted to make sure all custom content would work with L4D2 right away.

- Matchmaking and Dedicated Server selection from Lobby...I shut down my server because of this. I was quite vocal about it, and I can only hope I like what they do with the upcoming Matchmaking patch. In the end it hasn't stopped me from enjoying Versus using the Quick Match function.

- Smoker. When the game first came out I and many others were very disappointed with how useless the Smoker was. They have since patched that and fixed him, for the most part. He still needs to do more damage once the target is pulled in. Once a target has been incapacitated the Smoker should be able to get off and escape/find another target.

- Hunter. Once a target has been incapacitated the Hunter should be able to get off and escape/find another target.

- Boomer. Vomit could use more tweaking. Sometimes it seems to miss when it shouldn't. But they have tweaked this at least once, or twice. I'm sure they will continue to do so.

- Tank. I used to have a problem with his melee only hitting one target...they fixed that.

- Maps. Most of the maps have areas that need to be tweaked, either to block players out, or to allow players in. Sucks being on a long enclosed street and the Hunter can only jump onto a few rooftops.

- Content at release and DLC...this is entirely subjective. This seems to be the biggest sticking point for a lot of people. We'll simply have to agree to disagree.

- Survivor mode. I'm not a fan, I've stated this at least a dozen or more times. I was expecting a twist...there isn't one. It's very spammy with the majority of people using the same tactic...find a corner that can be exploited and stick it out as long as possible.

- I wish there was more variation in where the weapons & items would be placed.

There is plenty more...not going to be able to finish this...
 
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134. Re: L4D2 Announced Jun 2, 2009, 17:54 Dades
 
Completely different types of game Batman, not really a valid comparison.

@Dagok, you're far too forgiving of their blatantly lazy design for the content patch. You're also far too dismissive of other posters and I have yet to see you solidly address a number of the points brought up with anything other than a bunch of passive aggressive comments and opinions. You just seem to argue with everyone on this site, is there a manner in which you can post without being such a horse's bottom? Many people brought up valid points but you just keep getting more and more hostile despite people being reasonable and pointing out exactly their problem with the game. Then you resort to silly personal attacks or the debate equivalent of "hands on ears LA LA LA LA" as if that invalidates them.

I'd be happy to discuss my problems with the game but I have the sinking feeling you'll just start screaming that everyone is a noob and how we're all stupid or something. If you can debate reasonably like a rational human being then I'll be glad to point out the logical problems with your arguments.

This comment was edited on Jun 2, 2009, 18:06.
 
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133. Re: L4D2 Announced Jun 2, 2009, 17:11 xXBatmanXx
 
Of course it's the content that keeps people coming back.

Not if they don't like the gameplay, they don't. Versus mode has 20 maps (was 10). More than enough to keep things varied...IF YOU LIKE THE GAMEPLAY. People complained with 4 maps for DoDs, 8 for CSS, 6 for TF2, etc, etc...people will complain no matter what, and you continue to prove that.

Content argument is BS. Look at DoD and CS. Still going strong. A great base to a game (which I think the L4D franchise has) will trump content every time.

This comment was edited on Jun 2, 2009, 17:26.
 
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132. Re: L4D2 Announced Jun 2, 2009, 16:40 Krovven
 
It lost me when I played through every campaign at least 10 times on Advanced, and got sick of trying to find a team good enough to play with to do it on expert. I don't like versus, and survival mode to me is the dumbest mode I've ever played.

See, everyone has different expectations.

After playing through the Campaigns a few times each, it was time to move onto Versus and I never looked back. I don't play Campaigns. I think Versus is great...many people agree. Survival mode, not a fan. But I also understand why they chose to go that route, largely to allow single map user created content to be made as creating a 3 to 5 map Campaign is not easy. I'm sure Valve or the Community will turn it into something better in the future.

As for the amount of content...again that is subjective. There are problems in the game, yes there are some. Some annoy me more than others, but none of it is preventing me from playing the game.

This comment was edited on Jun 2, 2009, 17:01.
 
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131. Re: L4D2 Announced Jun 2, 2009, 16:34 Krovven
 
Back that up with something chief.

I already have, many times, including my posts yesterday. You want to continue to argue it, have fun.

And why would they do such a generous thing Dagok?

You were the one saying they were going to bundle the L4D content...so maybe answer your own question instead of trying to argue with me over something YOU said. As for the gifting of L4D...why wouldn't they? They did it with the Orange Box (precedent set) and they stated it's something they are considering.

They've said a lot of things about Left4Dead and not all of it came true.

Every single developer has said things and have had their plans change. Valve is no different. You can hold it over them all you like, but I really don't see the point in hanging them for it. It's not like they pulled a Crytek and announced they were dropping support for the game and a week later announced a new product. They announced a new product and have stated they will continue to have releases for L4D, and may even bundle them together. Details of this we wont know for awhile...so I don't see the point of bitching about it until we do know the facts. It's not like what EA does where they are shutting down servers rendering the MP game useless so they can sell the new game.

So you have read everything there is on the Internet to do with this game already? No? So why would you expect everyone else to have done so? That's the point.

Bullshit. I even corrected you that I did not say "everyone", you did. Either quote me properly or just STFU.

Yeah, you just totally ignore their very valid reasons to complain and call them names

Scuse me what? I have not insulted you or anyone else directly. I said that "any retard" could type ign.com, and I referred to the "asshats" that were call others "fanbois". So stop making this personal bullshit up to redirect from the actual discussion.

That's not what people wanted. They wanted new stuff, people always want new stuff, they rarely want rehashed content.

A perfect example of how so many gamers these days are self-entitled pricks. You expect everything your way and you expect everything for free. It's been clearly stated and is very obvious that L4D2 is far more than the scope of a bit of DLC. And to sound like a broken record, they have also stated that they will continue support for L4D.

As someone who played DT/DA in Versus before the patch, I can tell you that all they lacked was boundary points and visual cues for infected ladders.

Good for you, you played maps unfinished for Versus mode. Far more has changed in the maps other than the ladders and boundary points.

Survival mode is a bunch of existing maps, modified spawning and a TIMER. Give me a break.

Good to know exactly how ignorant you are. Those maps for Survival may be sections of maps that already exist, but they have been modified quite a lot to suit Survival mode. They are not direct copy and paste jobs. I don't expect someone that is just looking to argue to look objectively at the work done, whether they liked that work or not.

Just stop acting like everyone else should be happy to slop up bullshit when served to them just because you will.

Nobody is asking that. But be reasonable, be objective, wait for clear facts and stop being such a whiney bitch ass troll.

I'm done debating this with you. I've let it take up too much of my time at work (luckilly it's not too busy). If anyone else cares to discuss the game, I'll be glad to talk about it.

 
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