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Stormrise Vista/DirectX 10 Only

The Artem Kulakov interview on PC Games Hardware excerpts some quotes from an interview with the lead designer on Stormrise, SEGA's real-time strategy game that will be released for PCs later this month. The focus of these quotes is how the game will be a DirectX 10 exclusive, with Artem saying Stormrise was designed for DirectX 10 and Vista from the ground up, and that "Integrating DX10.1 was an opportunity to increase performance and improve visual quality even further." He explains why:

DX10 has offered a lot of advantages over DX9. First of all, DirectX 10 allowed us to simplify the rendering engine. It matches capabilities of next generation consoles better than DX9, which is important for us considering that Stormrise is a multi-platform title. We had fewer driver-specific compatibility issues with Stormrise compare to our previous games released with DX9.

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88. Re: Stormrise Vista/DirectX 10 Only Mar 6, 2009, 19:02 StingingVelvet
 
I've been using Vista for a year and a half and I find it frustrating when I have to go back to using XP on someone elses box. And I haven't had any performance issues with games. The only performance issues Vista ever had with games was right after launch when certain companies couldn't get their drivers in order. By the time I started using Vista, everything was fine.

As killer roach said, change comes incrementally. DX10 is not a huge leap over DX9, and DX11 probably won't be a big leap over DX10. Eventually you do have to force people who are lagging behind to upgrade. Otherwise you end up with nobody upgrading beyond DX9 because there isn't a compelling reason, and nobody making games for anything beyond DX9 because there isn't an install base.

A DX10 exclusive isn't a huge Microsoft conspiracy. It's a fucking developer who is tired of having to waste time and resources pandering to a crowd of people still using an 8 year old operating system whose successor has already had 2 years to mature, and that itself will be succeeded in the next few months. DX9 will stop being the baseline for games very soon, and DX11 is on the horizon. People need to stop being stubborn fools and start planning their upgrades.

Developers aren't going to keep making DX9 compatible games forever and ever just because a few whackjobs wish it.

The fact is, the burden is on us. It's up to us to demand technological advancement. And we do so by showing companies that we have the hardware and software that will allow us to use their products, should they choose to make them.

Post of the month... hear, hear!

Vista is lovely, I have been defending it since I got it a few months after launch. I don't do so for any reason other than it's a fine OS and kicks XP's butt.

I also agree people need to move on... not just for graphics, but for physics, open-worlds and everything else a powerful machine is needed for. I want bigger, better and brighter games, and that means people adopting Vista or Win7, DX10 and then DX11.

I almost hope big holiday games this year have the same requirements, like Mafia 2 or what-have-you.
 
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87. Re: Stormrise DX10 Only Mar 5, 2009, 13:25 elefunk
 
And a discussion here:

http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/02/16/2259257

It leaves one to believe this is just the beginning. Have to ask what other hooks are present, what are the other plans? Sorry, this does not deserve consumer trust in my opinion.
That slashdot article is bullshit:

http://arstechnica.com/microsoft/news/2009/02/oh-the-humanity-windows-7s-draconian-drm.arsq[
 
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86. Re: Stormrise DX10 Only Mar 5, 2009, 13:15 theyarecomingforyou
 
Firstly, that's of no concern to legitimate users. Secondly, that story was a load of bullshit - the user was using a cracked .dll that didn't work properly on Win7. How is a broken crack for a 3rd party application an example of additional DRM in Windows? That's why most people don't take Slashdot particularly seriously.  
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85. Re: Stormrise DX10 Only Mar 5, 2009, 07:54 Z9000
 
Cut your bullshit. The only DRM Vista has over XP is for ADDITIONAL features like HDCP - if you don't use it then you never come across it. It's strange how an extra feature like viewing Blu-ray media can be considered an issue. That's like criticising a bar for serving milk... it's an extra option that is of no detriment to those that don't want it.

It's not crap... Whatever they are putting in Windows 7 has a chance of showing up in Vista via patches (or is already there). Here's just a teaser of things to come:

http://boingboing.net/2009/02/17/windows-7-drm-begins.html

And a discussion here:

http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/02/16/2259257

It leaves one to believe this is just the beginning. Have to ask what other hooks are present, what are the other plans? Sorry, this does not deserve consumer trust in my opinion.

This comment was edited on Mar 5, 2009, 07:59.
 
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84. Re: Stormrise DX10 Only Mar 5, 2009, 05:16 Optimaximal
 
So you start with:

maybe they'd like to try and make a successful game whilst finally pulling the PC gaming industry back out of the doldrums it's in by releasing a game that finally takes proper advantage of new technology available

and follow up with:

DirectX 10 as an all shiny whizz-bang 'here's what we can do with graphics' API is a load of horse-manure

So an accurate summation of your opinion would be that they simply wanted to spend less time on engine programming? There's nothing wrong with that - in principle. There is something wrong with that when it cuts out 75% of your market - assuming you cared about them.
So, are you agreeing with me or not? Despite what the marketeers and console promoters would tell you, its not all about graphics. If DirectX 10 allows me to play games on my old 8800GTS in 3-4 years time because the more efficient processing & design moves everyone away from the requirement of brute-force power and more towards eeking out every bit of power from existing hardware, I'm all for it.

Speaking of which, that's probably why Nvidia kept sitting on DX10.1 - it negated them from selling their stupidly powerful cards.

so do you have any idea of how system resources are handled in XP v.s. Vista? do you have any technical knowledge whatsoever?
Yes, I do. Vista handles memory and processor usage much better than XP. Rather than fake responsiveness by leaving the processor & RAM idling, Vista dynamically allocates memory and processing power based on many variables, just like an OS should. That's why a bedded-in Vista OS will boot your most commonly used apps faster than an XP installation that just gets slower and slower.

Oh wait, you didn't want a proper answer... You just wanted to troll, didn't you

I think you're missing the point. DX10 = Vista exclusive. So making a game DX10-only is the same as making it a Vista exclusive. Vista exclusive = bad business decision.
It was a bad decision a year ago. Now there are 350 million 'potential' users out there who can buy the game and many more will be added w. Windows 7, even if (again) they are added via the OEM channel.

Yes, it may be too late by then for Stormrise but at least CA are trying to move the industry past the rutt it's gotten itself into.
 
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83. Re: Stormrise Vista/DirectX 10 Only Mar 5, 2009, 03:31 Jerykk
 
Look at it this way - before this announcement, not a single PC gamer probably genuinely gave a shit about this game. Now, some DirectX 10 gamers (not me) probably do give a shit about this game, and might end up buying it when before they hadn't even heard about it.

I highly, highly doubt that any PC gamer, DX9 or 10, really cares about this game. It's a port of a console RTS in a year when we have many high profle PC strategy games coming out.

While the game might not sell as many units overall as it would have had it supported DX9, they could still have the potential to make more money on fewer sales thanks to a possible smaller development budget. No one but Creative Assembly/Sega knows for sure.

Neither CA nor Sega know for sure either because the game isn't being sold yet. However, common sense dictates that doubling (at the very least) your potential audience by supporting XP will overcome whatever extra cost it might take to turn a DX9 console game into a DX9 PC game.
 
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82. Re: Stormrise Vista/DirectX 10 Only Mar 5, 2009, 02:20 elefunk
 
I think you're missing the point. DX10 = Vista exclusive. So making a game DX10-only is the same as making it a Vista exclusive. Vista exclusive = bad business decision.
I didn't say it was a good business decision. I said that in this case, Stormrise is actually a DX10 game, while Halo 2 and Shadowrun weren't.

Either way, no one but Sega knows if this is a bad business decision or not. If they've had fewer driver-specific compatibility issues and an easier overall development process, it could mean a drastically reduced budget than if they had gone and supported DX9 as well.

Look at it this way - before this announcement, not a single PC gamer probably genuinely gave a shit about this game. Now, some DirectX 10 gamers (not me) probably do give a shit about this game, and might end up buying it when before they hadn't even heard about it

While the game might not sell as many units overall as it would have had it supported DX9, they could still have the potential to make more money on fewer sales thanks to a possible smaller development budget. No one but Creative Assembly/Sega knows for sure.

This comment was edited on Mar 5, 2009, 02:22.
 
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81. Re: Stormrise Vista/DirectX 10 Only Mar 5, 2009, 00:51 Prez
 
The XP vs Vista debate aside, this is a bizarre decision in my view. It is a fact that Vista has not gained anywhere near the market penetration that XP has. Rightly or wrongly, Vista by and large just hasn't caught on with gamers. Even assuming that Vista is superior in every way and is now a fantastic gaming platform, why in the world would anyone release a PC game (already a niche market product) as a Vista-only release, locking out half of the potential market? Utterly mystifying.  
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80. Re: Stormrise Vista/DirectX 10 Only Mar 5, 2009, 00:47 Jerykk
 
Not at all. Halo and Shadowrun were DX9 games that stupidly had a Vista-only check. They didn't use DX10.

I think you're missing the point. DX10 = Vista exclusive. So making a game DX10-only is the same as making it a Vista exclusive. Vista exclusive = bad business decision.

This comment was edited on Mar 5, 2009, 00:48.
 
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79. Re: Stormrise Vista/DirectX 10 Only Mar 5, 2009, 00:41 elefunk
 
Not really. I've known about Stormrise since it was announced. It's an RTS designed for consoles. Technically, there's no justification to make it a DX10/Vista exclusive because it's a port of a DX9 game. It's like making Halo and Shadowrun Vista-exclusive. It's just dumb.
Not at all. Halo and Shadowrun were DX9 games that stupidly had a Vista-only check. They didn't use DX10.
 
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78. Re: Stormrise Vista/DirectX 10 Only Mar 4, 2009, 23:36 Burrito of Peace
 
Vista raped my dog!

Vista is the technological devil that all white, God fearing Christians should rise up against!

XP will save your children! XP will always be there for you. XP will give you a reacharound when you stumble in, piss drunk, smelling like that cheap slut that lives around the corner! XP forgives all!
 
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77. Re: Stormrise Vista/DirectX 10 Only Mar 4, 2009, 23:22 Jerykk
 
Yet because of this news, suddenly all of you know about it and are passionately bitching and moaning about it. Those of you who do indeed use Vista with a DX10 card are suddenly a bit more aware of the game than you were before.

Not really. I've known about Stormrise since it was announced. It's an RTS designed for consoles. Technically, there's no justification to make it a DX10/Vista exclusive because it's a port of a DX9 game. It's like making Halo and Shadowrun Vista-exclusive. It's just dumb.
 
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76. Re: Stormrise DX10 Only Mar 4, 2009, 22:57 Beamer
 

I still find it embarrassing that people here, supposedly power users, say so much ignorant and false crap about vista. Its like you believe those apple commercials.

As for the steam survey, remember the thousands of korean internet cafes playing cs 6,1.
 
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75. Re: Stormrise Vista/DirectX 10 Only Mar 4, 2009, 22:08 MindStalkerReturned
 
I remember all the games that came out around the time of windows 95 were Dos based (even the graphical ones like quake).
The games that came out for Windows 98 were greater than 50% Dos based.
When XP came out the majority of games supported 98 till well after ME came out. XP didn't become standard until 2003 at least.
Once Windows 7 takes a good foothold you will start to see Vista minimum specs be more common, not before.
 
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74. Re: Stormrise DX10 Only Mar 4, 2009, 20:47 Omni
 
Stormrise looks like crap anyway, its one of those games that ppl forgets about a month after its release since it turns out to be utter crap in other words autofail.  
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73. Re: Stormrise DX10 Only Mar 4, 2009, 20:18 beigemore
 
This is great news. I've been running Vista64 on both my laptop and desktop for about a year now and have absolutely loved it. I really hated Vista at first because I had to deal with my customer's issues of incompatibility, etc, but now since it has had time to grow, I've had a big change of heart.

It runs faster than XP ever did, it needs much fewer reboots, it's unbelievably stable, and all of my software works with it. I can definitely say I will never go back to XP.

It's really time for everyone to just move on. People complain about their 8 year old OS losing support, but it can't be supported forever. It's like people refusing to run games in Win95 and were sticking with DOS when Win95 was first released.
 
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72. Re: Stormrise DX10 Only Mar 4, 2009, 20:13 space captain
 
the luddites who won't move from an old operating system that is well past its shelf-life.

so do you have any idea of how system resources are handled in XP v.s. Vista? do you have any technical knowledge whatsoever?

oh wait, let me answer for you: "BAAA BAAA"
 
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71. Re: Stormrise DX10 Only Mar 4, 2009, 19:47 theyarecomingforyou
 
That's pretty close to tin-foil hat territory. You can't honestly believe that Valve is purposefully altering the results.
Usually you have to accept the survey each time a new one is done and I haven't seen that recently. Therefore is the sample base large enough to form accurate conclusions? Obviously I'm not suggesting that Valve is trying to skew the results. Perhaps it is collecting results from me but not prompting each time, in which case it may be very accurate. Unfortunately the numbers have been removed and all we've been left with is percentages.
 
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70. Re: Stormrise Vista/DirectX 10 Only Mar 4, 2009, 19:35 Blackhawk
 
75% of 1/5 of the market isn't a lot of sales lost.  
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69. Re: Stormrise Vista/DirectX 10 Only Mar 4, 2009, 19:25 Bhruic
 
So you start with:
maybe they'd like to try and make a successful game whilst finally pulling the PC gaming industry back out of the doldrums it's in by releasing a game that finally takes proper advantage of new technology available
and follow up with:
DirectX 10 as an all shiny whizz-bang 'here's what we can do with graphics' API is a load of horse-manure

So an accurate summation of your opinion would be that they simply wanted to spend less time on engine programming? There's nothing wrong with that - in principle. There is something wrong with that when it cuts out 75% of your market - assuming you cared about them.
 
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88 Replies. 5 pages. Viewing page 1.
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