25 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
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| 25. |
Re: JT's Bill Passes Utah House |
Mar 3, 2009, 19:37 |
kimbambaman |
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It's much less of a problem than is depicted.
I have personally seen it happen at GameStops on 4 separate occasions. YMMV, however.
To your other points on human suffering, I agree 100%. Well said LittleMe.  |
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| "Everybody out of the universe!" - Nibbler, Futurama |
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| 24. |
Re: JT's Bill Passes Utah House |
Mar 3, 2009, 18:49 |
DrEvil |
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| We should expect nothing less from a religious nut job. Business as usual for JT. |
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| 23. |
Re: JT's Bill Passes Utah House |
Mar 3, 2009, 18:38 |
Stanly Manly |
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At least 1 person has a clue (Littleme).
You can probably count on one hand the number of violent incidents that had high profile media coverage and some mention of video games.
But what people dont seem to ever count, is the number of violent incidents that happen that don't mention video games.
This is the kind of "logic" that dictates public opinion. Ignore the last ten thousand years of voilent human behavior that claimed untold millions of lives and caused untold amounts of suffering through unimaginal acts of cruelty, and focus on the 3 or 4 that mention video games.
And right now, with families being put out on the street because of the housing crisis, this just doesn't seem to be a good use of our goverments time. I mean, its not like those millions of people foreclosing on their homes are really interested in buying GTA4 at the moment. |
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| 22. |
Re: JT's Bill Passes Utah House |
Mar 3, 2009, 18:38 |
Aero |
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American film ratings aren't legal, they're just guidelines set by a private organization.
That is the problem with this law though. The government deciding what is and is not okay for anybody to play/watch/read is bad news. It's also confused because the ratings themselves, like film ratings, are set by a private organization, so it's a corporation deciding what is or is not okay, and the government enforcing it.
To avoid this, game developers could just choose not to have their games classified. Most stores now voluntarily won't sell unrated games, but if it could get them in trouble selling rated games based on their rating, you might possibly just see that happening. Unlikely, but it's a possibility, and illustrates another reason why this law is silly.
I don't disagree with the spirit of it though. I just don't think its the government's job. |
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| 21. |
Re: JT's Bill Passes Utah House |
Mar 3, 2009, 18:05 |
Sepharo |
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legally enforcable age-rating system on games (like i'm sure you have for films)
Nope... A mixture of capitalism and religion sorted that one out. |
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| [I'm not trolling I'm just] tossing stuff like that in there only to get your panties all bunched up. -TrollinThundr |
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| 20. |
Re: JT's Bill Passes Utah House |
Mar 3, 2009, 17:51 |
Blatz |
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Well said LittleMe... and theyarecomingforyou.
This comment was edited on Mar 3, 2009, 17:53. |
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| 19. |
Re: JT's Bill Passes Utah House |
Mar 3, 2009, 17:43 |
Optimaximal |
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Speaking as a Brit, this whole shitstorm would be irrelevant if the US would just impose a legally enforcable age-rating system on games (like i'm sure you have for films).
We have it in the UK as an extension to the BBFC's film classification and whereas they sometimes get it a bit wrong (Manhunt, mainly) it stops kids buying GTAIV and places the blame squarely on parents who purchase for kids as purchases can be traced via credit cards etc.
I know some see certification as censorship, unconstitutional and 'lack of free speech' but when idiotic, dead-beat, clueless and arrogant parents have been shown to hide behind such bullshit you can see why its something that does need to be regulated. |
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| 18. |
Re: JT's Bill Passes Utah House |
Mar 3, 2009, 16:41 |
LittleMe |
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Unfortunately, too many parents take the "well he wants X and I don't really care whats in it" approach.
It's much less of a problem than is depicted. The true causes of human suffering caused by violence are much more deeply rooted into the collective psyche. As I said yesterday, if you removed all violent media from our society, the underlying cause(s) would still be there. This news story is about a government taking advantage of misconstrued public opinion that the cause is the violent media.
Remember, it's always easier to point the finger elsewhere, like game companies, for our violent tendencies. Its a lot more challenging to look within ourselves and take responsibility for our own state of consciousness.
Violent media can easily satisfy our cravings for drama, for pain, but are not the cause. People love to cause and inflict pain on themselves and other people and not just physically. It is the human 'pain body' as described rather well by Eckhart Tolle.
This comment was edited on Mar 3, 2009, 17:32. |
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| Political freedom can only be preceded by economic freedom which is preceded by monetary freedom. |
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| 17. |
Re: JT's Bill Passes Utah House |
Mar 3, 2009, 16:29 |
kimbambaman |
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The problem is definitely bad parenting but that doesn't necessarily include buying the games for their kids. I was playing 18-rated games before I was 10 and it hasn't impacted me negatively. My parents sat me and my brothers down and explained fictional violence to us. If I had children I don't think I'd have a problem with letting them play mature games in a monitored environment, as I don't think Left 4 Dead is much different from Doom. One of the biggest problems is kids locked away in their rooms with their own computers and consoles, with enough disposable income to afford games. Parents need to be around to deal with the social and moral issues raised by the internet and computer games, which can't happen if their kids are in their own rooms. I know that I asked questions about absolutely everything when I was a kid.
It's the same with movies. As a kid I was allowed to watch many 18-rated movies but my parents wouldn't allow me to watch the more psychological or extreme movies... so, for instance, Rambo would be allowed but A Clockwork Orange wouldn't, etc.
That is a very reasonable and responsible approach. Unfortunately, too many parents take the "well he wants X and I don't really care whats in it" approach. |
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| "Everybody out of the universe!" - Nibbler, Futurama |
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| 16. |
Re: JT's Bill Passes Utah House |
Mar 3, 2009, 16:25 |
kimbambaman |
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What "the problem" is that? If parents want to buy M-rated games for their kids, that's up to the parents. Or are you saying that government should be telling parents how to raise children?
No, I'm not saying that at all. What I'm saying is that retailers shouldn't be held responsible for the bad decisions of parents. Parents should be held accountable for their decisions. |
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| "Everybody out of the universe!" - Nibbler, Futurama |
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| 15. |
Re: JT's Bill Passes Utah House |
Mar 3, 2009, 16:24 |
Grooves |
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Good.
I fully support this bill. The moronic parents SHOULD have to buy the damn games for their kids. That way they can't come back and sue the devs when their kid starts raping women from playing too much GTA4 at 11 years old.
Any M rated or AO games should be kept behind the counter and the parents should have to sign a liability waiver to purchase them. |
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| 14. |
Re: JT's Bill Passes Utah House |
Mar 3, 2009, 16:12 |
theyarecomingforyou |
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The problem is dipshit parents buying them for their kids. The problem is definitely bad parenting but that doesn't necessarily include buying the games for their kids. I was playing 18-rated games before I was 10 and it hasn't impacted me negatively. My parents sat me and my brothers down and explained fictional violence to us. If I had children I don't think I'd have a problem with letting them play mature games in a monitored environment, as I don't think Left 4 Dead is much different from Doom. One of the biggest problems is kids locked away in their rooms with their own computers and consoles, with enough disposable income to afford games. Parents need to be around to deal with the social and moral issues raised by the internet and computer games, which can't happen if their kids are in their own rooms. I know that I asked questions about absolutely everything when I was a kid.
It's the same with movies. As a kid I was allowed to watch many 18-rated movies but my parents wouldn't allow me to watch the more psychological or extreme movies... so, for instance, Rambo would be allowed but A Clockwork Orange wouldn't, etc. |
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Core i7 2600-K (4.6GHz) | 12GB DDR3 | GTX680 SLI (1215/1605) | OCZ Vertex 3 120GB SSD | Windows 8 Pro
Hazro HZ30Wie 30" | Saffire PRO 40 | Razer Mamba | Coolermaster RP1000W
SteamID: theyarecomingforyou |
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| 13. |
Re: JT's Bill Passes Utah House |
Mar 3, 2009, 16:03 |
Wildone |
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| No its saying the parents are incompetent to do so, because they complain about it whilst doing nothing themselves to watch their own children. Lack of responsibility. Just look at Octo-Mom..x10000 |
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| 12. |
Re: JT's Bill Passes Utah House |
Mar 3, 2009, 16:00 |
PropheT |
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You always know a politician is about to take your rights away when they start saying anything including "for the children."
The people working on this law have created a measure that places a retailer at risk of being sued for selling a product to a minor-- a product that is still legally purchased by that minor, keep in mind;
It's not illegal for a kid to purchase an M-rated game, and it's not illegal for a kid to go to an R-rated movie... and this law makes it better for a theater to just allow access rather than put themselves at risk of being sued for allowing someone to purchase their products (edit: after saying they don't allow it).
It's all a little brain dead.
This comment was edited on Mar 3, 2009, 16:01. |
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| 11. |
Re: JT's Bill Passes Utah House |
Mar 3, 2009, 16:00 |
LittleMe |
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Government as usual, missing the point. The problem isn't retailers selling M-rated games to kids. The problem is dipshit parents buying them for their kids.
No they don't miss the point. The government is acting according to its incentives. The incentive being that they can create the appearance that they are fixing things and that their authority is justified and needed. They don't necessarily care about solving the real problem. If they actually did fix problems, they'd too often be out of a job because the noisy wheel gets the grease.
This comment was edited on Mar 3, 2009, 16:10. |
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| Political freedom can only be preceded by economic freedom which is preceded by monetary freedom. |
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| 10. |
Re: JT's Bill Passes Utah House |
Mar 3, 2009, 15:59 |
Bhruic |
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The problem is dipshit parents buying them for their kids.
What "the problem" is that? If parents want to buy M-rated games for their kids, that's up to the parents. Or are you saying that government should be telling parents how to raise children? |
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| 9. |
Re: JT's Bill Passes Utah House |
Mar 3, 2009, 15:45 |
kimbambaman |
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Government as usual, missing the point. The problem isn't retailers selling M-rated games to kids. The problem is dipshit parents buying them for their kids. But we can't very well hold parents accountable...oh nooooo!  |
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| "Everybody out of the universe!" - Nibbler, Futurama |
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| 8. |
Re: JT's Bill Passes Utah House |
Mar 3, 2009, 15:34 |
Caveman |
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What do you mean "instead"? That's how most kids are getting them now. I sure as hell never sold an M rated game to a minor, but I know for a fact that a bunch of parents bought them for really young kids.
I don't really know, I can't remember the last time I set foot in a store to buy a game, I do all my shopping on Amazon or DD. |
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| 7. |
Re: JT's Bill Passes Utah House |
Mar 3, 2009, 15:31 |
Agent.X7 |
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So instead the uninformed parent's now buy the violent games.
What do you mean "instead"? That's how most kids are getting them now. I sure as hell never sold an M rated game to a minor, but I know for a fact that a bunch of parents bought them for really young kids. |
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| Seven Star Gaming - Sayre, PA |
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| 6. |
Re: JT's Bill Passes Utah House |
Mar 3, 2009, 15:20 |
dubfanatic |
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even so..."selling adult-rated media to minors "...isn't that a bad thing?
If they mean AO-rated games, this bill is pointless because minors already can't buy them and there's already laws against it. I can only imagine they mean M-rated games. |
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25 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
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