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Op Ed

PWNING 9-5 - Mega-Irony: Microsoft Digs Up Apple's 25 Year Old Mistakes.
"The X360 is a cancer. No, not because it has had a negative effect on PC gaming and I'm a PC fanboy, although all of that is true. It's because it's a product and a business that leeches revenue, mindshare, and resources away from Microsoft's core businesses. The XBox was supposed to be Microsoft's key into the living room -- a way for them to capitalize on the "digital convergence" that would occur there. But it ends up that XBox business unit is really just a fortress in the living room that even the greater Microsoft will never be able to add further value to, and digital convergence may never actually occur... So it's a big ole rotten egg that has stolen from Windows its only remaining 'killer app': GAMING."

AtomicGamer - Video Game U.
"On the up side, the majority of courses are taught by people who know what they're talking about, people who either used to work or are currently working in the industry and there's no way to overestimate the value of that. Game development still being something of an arcane art, any game veteran can tell you that having a mentor who's been in the trenches is worth more than a whole stack of instructional books. So unless you live next door to Shigeru Miyamoto or your dad's the head of EA, a game degree program may be the best (and only) way to find one of these."

Gamasutra - Opinion: Obsidian - Life Of The (RPG) Party?
"Very little was ever said about the Aliens RPG, but I'm sure that I would have played it, regardless of whether it now gets completed. I've found that Obsidian Entertainment, compared to every other developer that makes party-based RPGs, has consistently had the most interesting and forward-thinking ideas about party members and dynamics, whether in games that I like (Knights of the Old Republic II) or ones that I don't (Neverwinter Nights 2)."

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23 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
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23. Re: On the 360 Feb 27, 2009, 11:58 Jerykk
 
it doesn't invalidate your arguments but, rational or not, it does devalue them. what credence is to be given to someone whining about the death of pc gaming when that one is actively driving a stake in it's heart? it's hypocritical in the extreme.

If this were an argument about the death of PC gaming in general, you might have a point. But this is a very specific argument about Microsoft's impact on PC gaming and piracy has nothing to do with it.

It should also be noted that I do actually buy games and support the developers I believe are worth supporting. I just bought the Penumbra Collection, in spite of the fact that I had already played and beaten all three games and already bought the second one. It's possible to be both a pirate and a customer regardless of what anti-piracy zealots like to believe.
 
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22. Re: On the 360 Feb 27, 2009, 06:58 Nucas
 
i've come to terms with the pc's irrelevance. i don't think gaming on the pc will ever really die, but it can certainly become even more obscure than it already is, and it will. until publishers get wise and stop trying to rape their customer base. widespread adoption of an effective and unobtrusive drm scheme like steam would be an excellent start.

if that doesn't happen, well.. in five years i'm sure pc gaming will still be here, but i think it's going to be dominated by whatever ports the console industry deigns to throw it, mmo's (if console developers havn't gotten wise and produced some themselves, by then), the eclectic shit coming out of eastern europe (often awesome, see stalker. russians can't afford fucking xboxes.) and indie games. and valve. god bless those wacky sons of bitches. steam may yet save pc gaming.

The problem isn't that I'm a pirate. The problem is that you keep using that fact as if it somehow devalues my arguments. If I said the sky was blue, you'd say something completely inane and irrelevant like "The sky would be bluer if you didn't steal everything." My pirating habits have absolutely nothing to do with Microsoft being detrimental to PC gaming.

it doesn't invalidate your arguments but, rational or not, it does devalue them. what credence is to be given to someone whining about the death of pc gaming when that one is actively driving a stake in it's heart? it's hypocritical in the extreme.

i myself am guilty of piracy, but only recently, and only of games using the oppressive limited activation/securom scheme. i still feel weird about pirating shit having never done so since i first got into gaming but publishers who want to rape me with rentware can go fuck themselves.
 
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21. Re: On the 360 Feb 26, 2009, 23:11 Jerykk
 
Yeah I'm sure you know better than the developer themselves what they like and dislike.

I think it's safe to assume that Epic likes money. It's even more safe to assume that Microsoft paid them a crapload of money for Gears of War exclusivity.

If for some reason that logic goes over your head, I'll spell it out for you.

1) Epic starts developing Gears of War.
2) Epic shops the game out to publishers.
3) Microsoft agrees to publish the game... but only if it's a 360 exclusive. To compensate for the loss of potential profit from this limitation, Microsoft pays Epic a shitload of money up front and guarantees a ridiculous amount of marketing and hype for the game.

And that's how exclusivity works. If Sony or Microsoft want exclusivity, they need to offer something to compensate. If you don't believe this, simply refer to the fact that Microsoft paid Take-Two $50 million for exclusive GTA4 DLC. That's more than the budget of most games.

http://blog.wired.com/games/2007/06/take_two_gets_5.html


Perhaps the platform itself has some issues unrelated to Microsoft.

Luckily, I never stated that MS was the only problem facing PC gaming. Accessibility, price, marketing... PC gaming has a lot of barriers to mainstream success. MS is one of them.

Yeah it has nothing to do with customers wanting ongoing content and there being a massive demand for it.

You seem to be completely missing the whole "exclusive" part that I keep repeating. That GTA4 DLC? It's a 360 exclusive. That means all the customers who bought the PS3 and PC versions of GTA4 are screwed. That = Microsoft hurting PC (and PS3) gaming. The Tomb Raider: Underworld DLC? 360 exclusive. I bought the PC version of TR:U and I can't play the DLC. That = hurting PC gaming. Remember Mass Effect? If Microsoft owned Bioware, the game still wouldn't be out on the PC. Hell, it took two years for Microsoft to finally port Jade Empire to the PC.

Why does Microsoft Games have to publish PC games?

They don't. However, given that Windows is their biggest cashcow, it would make sense for them to support gamers who use it. It would also make sense for them to at least port the 360 games they publish to the PC (and not years later).

Where's the responsibility for the rest of the industry? Microsoft alone must prop everyone up?

The problem isn't that Microsoft hasn't actively supported PC gaming. The problem is that they created a competing platform and did everything in their power to get PC developers to transition over. They paid PC developers hefty amounts of cash to make Xbox exclusives. Or they just bought the developers and forced them to make Xbox exclusives. And then they shut down the last two PC developers they still owned.

Exclusives are what distinguishes the consoles from eachother right now, they aren't terribly concerned with competition from the PC.

*facepalm*

You are completely missing the point. Platforms need exclusives. Microsoft needs Halo, Gears of War, Fable, Forza, etc, to sell the Xbox. Sony needs Little Big Planet, Resistance, Metal Gear, Killzone, Gran Turismo, etc, to sell Playstations. The PC needs exclusives too. If 99% of high-profile PC games are multiplatform, there's no incentive for the average joe to upgrade his PC and overcome the accessibility barrier. The PC needs killer apps that people must play and these killer apps will never be multiplatform games.

You spent months advertising freely that you gleefully pirate to your hearts content, suddenly it's a problem?

The problem isn't that I'm a pirate. The problem is that you keep using that fact as if it somehow devalues my arguments. If I said the sky was blue, you'd say something completely inane and irrelevant like "The sky would be bluer if you didn't steal everything." My pirating habits have absolutely nothing to do with Microsoft being detrimental to PC gaming.

This comment was edited on Feb 26, 2009, 23:31.
 
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20. Re: Op Ed Feb 26, 2009, 21:34 Scottish Martial Arts
 
You can turn on all manner of pauses and information to make KOTOR turn-based. You are arguing hairs of difference.

Except that I'm not.

Just because you can set a real-time game to pause every few seconds doesn't mean it's turn-based. When you unpause, everything still unfolds in real-time -- all characters act simultaneously. Imagine a game of chess where both players made their moves at the same time, but took a break every 15 seconds or so. Such a game would be very, very different from traditional turn-based chess.

It's the same deal with KotOR. The d20 system was designed for turn-based, table-top play, and the system translates very poorly to a real-time environment. For example, area effect spells are a bitch to time in KotOR and NWN2 because the enemies are always moving around. Compare this with ToEE, where when it's your mages turn, no one else can take any any actions, allowing you to determine what enemies (and friends!) will be in the range of your fireball, letting you plan accordingly. Read some NWN2 message boards sometime and you'll find that the consensus is that AOE spells are at a huge disadvantage from the PnP equivalent for this very reason.

Real-time with pause usually works well enough for cRPGs, but it most definitely is not a turn-based combat system.
 
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19. Re: On the 360 Feb 26, 2009, 20:45 Dades
 
I wonder if that has anything to do with the fact that MS paid them bucketloads of money for exclusivity...

Yeah I'm sure you know better than the developer themselves what they like and dislike.

I'm not mad at consoles, I'm mad at Microsoft. As I've stated numerous times already, MS goes out of their way to stifle all competition to the Xbox, including the PC. They bought PC developers like Bungie and Lionhead and forced them to make Xbox exclusives.

So why don't more PC developers spring up? Perhaps the platform itself has some issues unrelated to Microsoft.

They bribe publishers to make exclusive games and DLC. They shut down Ensemble and ACES Studio, the last two PC-centric developers they had. Every game they publish now is an Xbox exclusive.

Yeah it has nothing to do with customers wanting ongoing content and there being a massive demand for it. Why does Microsoft Games have to publish PC games? Where's the responsibility for the rest of the industry? Microsoft alone must prop everyone up? Sheesh.

Then why is Microsoft spending so much money on exclusives? And why is Sony begging for them? If PC gaming is to survive, it needs exclusives. History has shown that the best PC games are exclusives.

Exclusives are what distinguishes the consoles from eachother right now, they aren't terribly concerned with competition from the PC.

Why is it that every response I get from you ends up with you calling me a pirate? Seriously, get over it and stay on topic.

You spent months advertising freely that you gleefully pirate to your hearts content, suddenly it's a problem? Sorry chum.

This comment was edited on Feb 26, 2009, 20:50.
 
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18. Re: Op Ed Feb 26, 2009, 19:15 dryden555
 

nope scottish -- you say:
Uh, no it's not. Real-time with pause does not equal turn-based. Play some Jagged Alliance 2, and then come back and say that KotOR is turned base.

Oh c'mon I have played JAG2 to death and loved it. You can turn on all manner of pauses and information to make KOTOR turn-based. You are arguing hairs of difference.

On KOTOR 1 being too wayyyy too easy? I suppose you could argue that but that wasnt my impression.

KOTOR1 was the last good _party-based_ turn based crpg.

 
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17. Re: Op Ed Feb 26, 2009, 16:17 RP
 
Heh, Steam makes the entire console business model seem silly. Valve eliminated two middlemen: hardware and B&M.

Steam has about 20 million users. So does the PS3. I'm willing to bet that the PS3 brings in more revenue than Steam, but Valve didn't (and won't) have to spend billions of dollars to reach those 20 million customers. When Sony and MS have to pony up a shitload of money to make their next consoles, Valve will still be cruising along with essentially the same platform. Even if you can't stand Steam, you have to give Valve some credit for pulling that off. Valve's evil plan is to have Steam on every laptop and PC possible, so their long-term growth potential is excellent.

Microsoft missed the boat because Steam essentially accomplishes the same thing as the Xbox (money from every game sold) but for a fraction of the cost. Their consolation prize is that Steam keeps people tied to Windows, which is quickly becoming irrelevant for everything except gaming.

One thing I've noticed about PC gaming: ROI can be orders of magnitude higher than anything currently possible on the consoles. Steam and WoW prove that. Hell, even Sins of a Solar Empire has a better return-on-investment than most AAA games.
 
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16. Re: On the 360 Feb 26, 2009, 16:13 Scottish Martial Arts
 
It doesn't mean PC gaming is dying and has nothing to do with Microsoft targeting PC gaming or something. PC gaming is quite healthy and alive anyways, stop being such a reactionary and dramatic little girl Rolleyes

Except that, you know, hardly anything PC-exclusive comes out anymore. Take first-person shooters for example, the last PC-exclusive was Crysis, from over a year ago, everything else is multiplatform. Some companies, like Valve, are able to do multiplatform well without shortchanging the PC experience one bit. Most, like Monolith or Epic, are clearly just porting dumbed-down 360 titles to the PC.
 
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15. Re: On the 360 Feb 26, 2009, 16:10 Jerykk
 
Epic has said publicly several times they prefer releasing games for the 360 so I don't know why you'd choose that example.

I wonder if that has anything to do with the fact that MS paid them bucketloads of money for exclusivity...

You can't get mad at consoles themselves because devs choose to move there.

I'm not mad at consoles, I'm mad at Microsoft. As I've stated numerous times already, MS goes out of their way to stifle all competition to the Xbox, including the PC. They bought PC developers like Bungie and Lionhead and forced them to make Xbox exclusives. They bribe publishers to make exclusive games and DLC. They shut down Ensemble and ACES Studio, the last two PC-centric developers they had. Every game they publish now is an Xbox exclusive.

The industry in general wants more multiplatform releases, exclusives are becoming less and less important.

Then why is Microsoft spending so much money on exclusives? And why is Sony begging for them? If PC gaming is to survive, it needs exclusives. History has shown that the best PC games are exclusives. I'm well aware that multiplatform games are generally more profitable. Except I don't care. I'm a PC gamer, not a suit.

Maybe stop pirating so much crap too if you want to see more PC exclusives Jokeryk.

Why is it that every response I get from you ends up with you calling me a pirate? Seriously, get over it and stay on topic.
 
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14. Re: Op Ed Feb 26, 2009, 16:02 Scottish Martial Arts
 
Huh? not remotely -- not sure how to begin replying to that.

They were both real-time with pause combat systems based upon d20 rules.

You can hit the space bar in KOTOR and direct ALL of the party characters (as with Baldur's Gate) and you can also choose to have the action stop at the end of every turn, and with messages telling you all of this info. It is genuinely turn-based at that point.

Uh, no it's not. Real-time with pause does not equal turn-based. Play some Jagged Alliance 2, and then come back and say that KotOR is turned base.

The only difference between KotOR and NWN combat is party member control. In NWN you didn't really have party members, just a single AI henchmen. By NWN2 however, you did have full party member control, and therefore had an identical combat system to KotOR.

Honestly, I cannot understand how anyone would praise the KotOR, or NWN for that matter, combat system. It was dead easy and required absolutely no tactical thinking. Party members were awkward to control and often would ignore your orders to follow their AI. KotOR was a fun enough game, but it was hardly the pinnacle of cRPG design.

This comment was edited on Feb 26, 2009, 16:03.
 
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13. Re: On the 360 Feb 26, 2009, 15:26 Dades
 
Uh, if a PC franchise turns into a console franchise, I'm pretty sure that qualifies as killing PC gaming. PC gaming = games designed for the PC. When series and genres once designed for the PC are now designed for consoles instead, that = killing PC gaming. The Xbox was the catalyst for this and Microsoft has spent a lot of money to persuade developers to design games for their console instead of the PC. MS paid Take-Two $50 million for GTA4 DLC exclusivity... on the Xbox. They also paid Eidos a lot for TR:U DLC exclusivity... on the Xbox. You can bet your ass they paid Epic a lot for Gears of War exclusivity... on the Xbox.

Epic has said publicly several times they prefer releasing games for the 360 so I don't know why you'd choose that example. You can't get mad at consoles themselves because devs choose to move there. Developers like money and the console is a platform that makes a lot of it. It doesn't mean PC gaming is dying and has nothing to do with Microsoft targeting PC gaming or something. PC gaming is quite healthy and alive anyways, stop being such a reactionary and dramatic little girl Rolleyes

The industry in general wants more multiplatform releases, exclusives are becoming less and less important. PC gaming doesn't get to be a special little bee who gets tons of exclusives when it doesn't even generate as much revenue as consoles. Get used to reality. Maybe stop pirating so much crap too if you want to see more PC exclusives Jokeryk.

This comment was edited on Feb 26, 2009, 15:27.
 
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12. Re: On the 360 Feb 26, 2009, 15:13 Jerykk
 
People view the 360 as a PC gaming killer but that's more of an opinionated thing thats spewed when their favorite franchise swaps to the platform to make more money.

Uh, if a PC franchise turns into a console franchise, I'm pretty sure that qualifies as killing PC gaming. PC gaming = games designed for the PC. When series and genres once designed for the PC are now designed for consoles instead, that = killing PC gaming. The Xbox was the catalyst for this and Microsoft has spent a lot of money to persuade developers to design games for their console instead of the PC. MS paid Take-Two $50 million for GTA4 DLC exclusivity... on the Xbox. They also paid Eidos a lot for TR:U DLC exclusivity... on the Xbox. You can bet your ass they paid Epic a lot for Gears of War exclusivity... on the Xbox.
 
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11. Re: Op Ed Feb 26, 2009, 15:00 dryden555
 

Hey vrok

1. NWN came before KotOR.

I was not suggesting that.

2. They use the same combat system.

Huh? not remotely -- not sure how to begin replying to that.

3. You're talking about pausing and queuing up combat actions. Not actual turn-based combat.

No sorry. You can hit the space bar in KOTOR and direct ALL of the party characters (as with Baldur's Gate) and you can also choose to have the action stop at the end of every turn, and with messages telling you all of this info. It is genuinely turn-based at that point. NW1 -- as released -- never let you do that though perhaps there was a mod later. But I never heard of such a mod.

My main point still holds -- the high point for _party-based_ crpg's was BG2 and KOTOR 1.
 
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10. Re: Op Ed Feb 26, 2009, 13:30 Tanto Edge
 
VideoGame U:
It's unfortunate these mainstream images are out there skewing the public's perception

Absolutely, the ads should be explaining off the bat that most schools don't have the benefit of guest teachers from successful companies.
Most have to deal with hacks who couldn't make it in the industry, and most of those folks are so fucking diluted that the 'education' you'll get is a jaded romp through their experiences.
Awesome.

If you've got 40-75k sitting around collecting dust, don't go dumping it into some brick and mortar establishment because they offer a 'design course'.
A three month two session a week course isn't going to teach you how to make a great game. Unfortunately this is the reason we have so many shit games floating around the big ceramic bowl that is the games industry.

Go read Newell's articles, go study the Gamastura, go and educate yourself the old fashioned way. Self motivation is the key.
You want to learn a trade, like Modeling, Rigging, Animating, etc, you can always pay to learn, or you can download some tutorial videos, practice a bunch and lo! You have a demo reel that will get you hired just as quickly as any diploma from any school.

You're better off taking that 40-75k, paying it in chunks to freelance programmers and developing yourself a minigame that you use to get yourself the job you're looking for.
Moreover, it will teach you what it's like to manage time, people, and priorities.

As time goes, I'm sure these courses that they offer will become more and more mainstream, but for now, unfortunately, people have to realize:
Schools don't understand games. Schools understand profit margin. Games have prestige and profit tied to them, and schools want in on that.

Don't waste your money going to a 'design' school like I did. In the end, the only thing that really matters is whether or not you can do the job. Nobody will ever ask you what your 'design' grades were.
 
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=705LEH3j2g0&t=0m24s
http://www.youtube.com/user/tantoedge
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9. Re: On the 360 Feb 26, 2009, 10:56 Dades
 


First off, Microsoft sells the 360 hardware at a loss. That reduces overall profitability off the bat versus a PC-focused strategy for them.

Actually the 360 hardware has been selling at a profit for three quarters now as reported in their financial statements. Revenue from console hardware isn't the main focus of any console business platform anyways so it's really irrelevant. Sony sold the PS3 at a loss for quite a long time but still made money on the software and licensing.

Third, and the most important one, Windows gaming is one of the few things that keeps consumer PC owners locked into the Microsoft ecosystem. With MS bent on killing off PC gaming, it has simply opened the door wider and wider to sowing the seeds for diminishing market share for Windows (and, consequently, Office), the biggest money-makers that the company has.

I don't think Microsoft is "bent" on killing gaming. They are a huge company and it doesn't seem like they've had a cohesive strategy to tie different departments together. Many of their missteps of the past three years seem like idiotic mistakes made because of lack of communication. People view the 360 as a PC gaming killer but that's more of an opinionated thing thats spewed when their favorite franchise swaps to the platform to make more money. In reality there will always be a significant market for games on the PC, alternate revenue streams and distribution models are becoming highly successful there.
 
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8. Re: Op Ed Feb 26, 2009, 10:02 vrok
 
WTF?

1. NWN came before KotOR.
2. They use the same combat system.
3. You're talking about pausing and queuing up combat actions. Not actual turn-based combat.

This comment was edited on Feb 26, 2009, 10:02.
 
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7. Re: Op Ed Feb 26, 2009, 08:49 dryden555
 
I would happily pay for a KOTOR 3 that harked back to KOTOR 1. KOTOR had a semi turn-based combat system that was nearly brilliant. You could go real-time at any point, or entirely turn-based when every decision mattered. Sorry but when Neverwinter 1 came out with its "clickfest" real-time party system and AI controlled cohorts, it was the end of complex party-based crpg's. Neverwinter 2 sealed the bad design, with much of the role-playing numbers completely hidden from you and +5 uber loot sitting on the ground to make everything easier when you clicked your mouse.  
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6. Re: On the 360 Feb 26, 2009, 08:27 killer_roach
 
There is only one problem with this theory, Microsoft is bringing in more money on Xbox games than it ever would have with any PC related scheme. Plus, a lot of this crapola gets ported over to the PC where another 20% or so can be made.

Some huge swings and misses here.

First off, Microsoft sells the 360 hardware at a loss. That reduces overall profitability off the bat versus a PC-focused strategy for them.

Secondly, as many 360s as are sold, it still pales before the install base of Windows PCs.

Third, and the most important one, Windows gaming is one of the few things that keeps consumer PC owners locked into the Microsoft ecosystem. With MS bent on killing off PC gaming, it has simply opened the door wider and wider to sowing the seeds for diminishing market share for Windows (and, consequently, Office), the biggest money-makers that the company has.
 
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5. Re: Life of the (RPG) Party Feb 26, 2009, 06:46 Cutter
 
I disagree for one simple fact, Jer. The individual in any CRPG is generally the main focus, but not the end all or be all. Otherwise no one would utilize save games and start a new character everytime they die. The party system is an out for that. You may have gone down/died but someone in the party can bring you around.

If anything the party system hasn't fully realised the non-combatant role for the player-character. I remember trying to start as the diplomat and/or healer in many a crpg only to get owned hard many times untill I got to a point where my party was tough enough, I could stay out of the fray and do my self-appointed job. If you want t go in as Billy Badass, the devs have that angle locked down. Anything less is where you get into problems. And this is really the only place the party system needs work. I'd love to see a crpg designed from the ground up that accounts for that style of playing. In least in MOGs everyone has their respective roles and it's reactive.
 
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"The South will boogie again!" - Disco Stu
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4. Re: Life of the (RPG) Party Feb 26, 2009, 04:59 InBlack
 
"The X360 is a cancer. No, not because it has had a negative effect on PC gaming and I'm a PC fanboy, although all of that is true. It's because it's a product and a business that leeches revenue, mindshare, and resources away from Microsoft's core businesses. The XBox was supposed to be Microsoft's key into the living room -- a way for them to capitalize on the "digital convergence" that would occur there. But it ends up that XBox business unit is really just a fortress in the living room that even the greater Microsoft will never be able to add further value to, and digital convergence may never actually occur... So it's a big ole rotten egg that has stolen from Windows its only remaining 'killer app': GAMING."

There is only one problem with this theory, Microsoft is bringing in more money on Xbox games than it ever would have with any PC related scheme. Plus, a lot of this crapola gets ported over to the PC where another 20% or so can be made.
 
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I have a nifty blue line!
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