81 Replies. 5 pages. Viewing page 2.
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| 61. |
Re: Deus Ex 3 Details |
Jan 31, 2009, 01:06 |
007Bistromath |
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Add in rudimentary leaning (that's been in PC shooters for years) and you're set.
The only thing lean keys have ever been for is displacing use and last_inv from their rightful places. |
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| 60. |
Re: Deus Ex 3 Details |
Jan 30, 2009, 23:44 |
OneEye |
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Lol - some of you are full of it. Every game has disagreements, cliques and bad choices. Great games, like DX1, pull through all of that with leadership and vision like Harvey had on the design side (and Chris Norden had on the programming side).
Harvey got the skill system, augs, game endings and map building for the first part of the game (NY, Paris, UNATCO) into the game. There are 4 things...plus many, many others.
On DX2 Harvey had to make some calls that were similar to making the call of getting kicked in the balls or getting your teeth bashed in. People think you're an idiot for walking around with ice on your balls, but the alternative they aren't aware of was probablly worse... |
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| 59. |
Re: Deus Ex 3 Details |
Jan 30, 2009, 23:15 |
Jerykk |
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About half the team got laid off/fired in the last year to 6 months cause they constantly fought harvey's and warrens dumb ideas, they are the ones whom made Deus Ex a classic.
Yeah, I'm starting to think that Deus Ex was a mistake. It didn't end up as Spector and Harvey intended and it was all the better for it. Reminds me of Tribes. |
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| 58. |
Re: Deus Ex 3 Details |
Jan 30, 2009, 22:35 |
Acleacius |
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Harvey was the lead designer on DX1. Name at least one good design harvey was responsible for that received critical praise, ha I should ask for 3 like Overon. 
If you were around then, read any of post mortems or read much from warrens interviews you will know there was constant fighting during development. About half the team got laid off/fired in the last year to 6 months cause they constantly fought harvey's and warrens dumb ideas, they are the ones whom made Deus Ex a classic. You know ideas like warren's dumb optical inventory he tried to get in DX1, there are lists around. |
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| Should any political party attempt to abolish social security, unemployment insurance, and eliminate labor laws and farm programs, you would not hear of that party again in our political history.....and they are stupid. Dwight D. Eisenhower |
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| 57. |
Re: Deus Ex 3 Details |
Jan 30, 2009, 21:51 |
theyarecomingforyou |
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Overall I think the focus should be on evolving the cover system while making it more natural. The problem is that making a cover system integral to the game-play invites the possibility of a weak system ruining an otherwise excellent engine. So one could validly say that this is a form of consolization from the arguments above, which is nothing new, but really a compromise has to be made. It's simple... don't make it third-person. Killzone 2 has a first-person cover system and looks all the better because of it. Developers are simply copying other developer's shit ideas and I don't see why I should tolerate it. The idea of slapping in a third-person perspective to a first-person game is abhorrent. It has nothing to do with consoles - I have no problem with them and nor do I have any problem with multi-platform releases.
That's your opinion and judging by the popularity of cover systems in modern games, you're in the minority. Just because it's popular doesn't mean it's good. I have no problem with third-person cover systems in third-person games but they are ridiculous in first-person games - it would be stupid to see Gordon Freeman in third-person every time you jumped in Half-Life so why is it acceptable to see characters in third-person for cover while playing first-person games? It's simply a flawed concept.
I can't state enough that I have no objection to console games or multi-platform releases. I simply object to the concept of a third-person cover system in a first-person game. Can developers really not come up with a system that doesn't destroy immersion? |
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Core i7 2600-K (4.6GHz) | 12GB DDR3 | GTX680 SLI (1215/1605) | OCZ Vertex 3 120GB SSD | Windows 8 Pro
Hazro HZ30Wie 30" | Saffire PRO 40 | Razer Mamba | Coolermaster RP1000W
SteamID: theyarecomingforyou |
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| 56. |
Re: Deus Ex 3 Details |
Jan 30, 2009, 21:21 |
PHJF |
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Playing it without Deus Ex in mind, it's a solid shooter/RPG-lite.
Too bad the name has Deus Ex in it. |
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| 55. |
Re: Deus Ex 3 Details |
Jan 30, 2009, 21:07 |
StingingVelvet |
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IW was still a solid game. It just wasn't up to some people's ginormous expectations
Yep. If it was not a sequel to Deus Ex, people would like the game a LOT more than they do. Playing it without Deus Ex in mind, it's a solid shooter/RPG-lite. |
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| 54. |
Re: Deus Ex 3 Details |
Jan 30, 2009, 21:05 |
Bluesfanboi |
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It is by now obvious, with years of gaming history to study, that great men make great games.
Trying to capitalize on a great man's (and great team) work is always bound to fail as the great man has already solved the problems in his mind that would otherwise show up in someone's approach to his work.
There are many talented painters who can reproduce famous paintings, down to the single brush hair, but try and get them to make a new painting, even in the same style, impossible. Games are the same way.
I devoured Deus Ex completely and it broadened my world view ever so much more and I'm forever done with it for the above reason. |
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| 53. |
Re: Deus Ex 3 Details |
Jan 30, 2009, 20:47 |
Jerykk |
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1) Those little spider bots were pretty cool.
2) The robot animation was nice.
3) The main menu music was good.
Hah! I did it! |
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| 52. |
Re: Deus Ex 3 Details |
Jan 30, 2009, 20:37 |
Overon |
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| Name 3 good things about invisible war? I double dog dare you. |
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| 51. |
Re: Deus Ex 3 Details |
Jan 30, 2009, 18:51 |
Dreagon |
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IW was still a solid game. It just wasn't up to some people's ginormous expectations.
Yep, for those of us who were expecting more than a steaming turd, it just disappointed the hell out of us. |
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------
Carpe Papilla
"@Dreagon - Comparing Oblivion to Deer Hunter was just ridiculous and you should be ashamed of yourself... it just made you look like a Class-A cunt." - theyarecomingforyou |
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| 50. |
Re: Deus Ex 3 Details |
Jan 30, 2009, 18:25 |
OneEye |
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Our luck knowing, he's the next Harvey Smith.
Harvey was the lead designer on DX1.
Perhaps there were reasons that IW didn't meet your expecations other than Harvey. Perhaps the Publisher forced the Developer into a console first menatlity. Perhaps the specs for the console weren't exactly what were sold to the developer. Perhaps the game had to be re-factored numerous times because of these issues.
IW was still a solid game. It just wasn't up to some people's ginormous expectations. Many of the reasons why however where out of the hands of people like Harvey and in the hands of the people who drove the Tomb Raider, Hitman, Timesplitters, Commandos, etc, etc, franchises into the ground. |
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| 49. |
Re: Deus Ex 3 Details |
Jan 30, 2009, 18:05 |
Wildone |
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| god why do we have to put up with sloppy console 2nds... |
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| 48. |
Re: Deus Ex 3 Details |
Jan 30, 2009, 17:06 |
NewMaxx |
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I'm at the foremost a PC gamer and I fervently detest consolization. Over time I have come to accept it as inevitability, but combined with the casual experience found in The Sims 2 and World of Warcraft I found myself pushed over the edge. That is why I have moved towards indie games, particularly ones from Germany and Eastern Europe. A cropped list would include The Guild series, the Anno series, The Witcher and other indie RPGs like Gothic, Two Worlds, and Sacred, the Europa Universalis series (as well as the other fine works by Paradox Interactive), clones like Singles and Runes of Magic, Operation Flashpoint and ArmA, and so forth. I could even throw in Stardock just to be cliché. These games tend to be unpolished and have a higher level of difficulty, but they are also often deep and creatively designed.
I bring that up because that’s what PC gaming is really about: the independent developer. One of the PC’s great advantages over any console is that it is versatile and can be a platform for experimentation without the need for a huge budget. The consolization movement is just like the HDD makers who all followed suit with inflating drive sizes – when one company did it, the rest were forced to copy it. So you have this idea of a cover system spreading like crazy but with mild improvement, mainly because the real creative ideas are left to developers without blinders for the bottom line – those developers are on the PC. The Deus Ex franchise is being consolized and that’s no reason not to enjoy it, but realistically you are criticizing a category of game makers for fulfilling their agenda rather than supporting the creative developers that actually make PC games.
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| 47. |
Re: Deus Ex 3 Details |
Jan 30, 2009, 16:57 |
StingingVelvet |
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A cover system in any FPS is ridiculous and completely unnecessary. Hey, see that tree over there? Go stand behind it. Congratulations, you now have cover! Add in rudimentary leaning (that's been in PC shooters for years) and you're set.
A third-person cover system in an FPS is bad for the following reasons:
1) It breaks perspective consistency and immersion.
2) It's cheap. You can see your enemies but they can't see or hit you.
3) It's limited. A cover system requires that objects be specifically flagged as cover. A freeform leaning system means you can use anything as cover.
The R6:Vegas implementation was especially bad. You could actually aim at enemies while you were completely behind cover.
I completely agree with all your points... it does not make sense realistically, it does make it too easy, it does break immersion... you are completely correct.
I still loved it though, in both Vegas games and Brothers in Arms, because it was FUN.
I guess I'm the bad guy. |
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| 46. |
Re: Deus Ex 3 Details |
Jan 30, 2009, 16:52 |
Cabezone |
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Being able to see everything from cover, and especially to AIM from cover is just retarded and hyper-unrealistic. No FPS should use that type of system.
They could implement a system that lets you do that sort of thing, but stay in FP mode. No seeing everything and damn sure no aiming from behind something. They should make sure that sounds are sufficient to help you locate enemies, as well as having the ability to peak out quickly with a reduced chance of being hit.
This |
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| 45. |
Re: Deus Ex 3 Details |
Jan 30, 2009, 16:52 |
Dmitri_M |
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can agree with 1 & 2 in the case of Vegas but 3 is implementation dependent. Either way, you're basically saying cover systems are bad because you like leaning. That's.....great. You go girl.
Cover systems exist so that that people can see their big cartoony heroes moving about on screen because their imaginations are near non existant fuck you |
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| 44. |
Re: Deus Ex 3 Details |
Jan 30, 2009, 16:40 |
Wowbagger_TIP |
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Being able to see everything from cover, and especially to AIM from cover is just retarded and hyper-unrealistic. No FPS should use that type of system.
They could implement a system that lets you do that sort of thing, but stay in FP mode. No seeing everything and damn sure no aiming from behind something. They should make sure that sounds are sufficient to help you locate enemies, as well as having the ability to peak out quickly with a reduced chance of being hit.
This comment was edited on Jan 30, 2009, 16:43. |
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| 43. |
I'm really beginning to think... |
Jan 30, 2009, 15:49 |
Dreagon |
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| ... that the Deus Ex franchise needs to be left to rest in peace. Some of the so called complaints with the first game were what made the game great. It wasn't supposed to be a fast paced shooter, but some people can't seem to put down their controllers and figure that out. |
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------
Carpe Papilla
"@Dreagon - Comparing Oblivion to Deer Hunter was just ridiculous and you should be ashamed of yourself... it just made you look like a Class-A cunt." - theyarecomingforyou |
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| 42. |
Re: Deus Ex 3 Details |
Jan 30, 2009, 15:42 |
Creston |
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Dugas says the original Deus Ex was "kind of slow". He added, "There weren't enough exciting, memorable moments. It was aimed more towards a simulation rather than a game experience."
The statement that Deus Ex was kind of slow is not to be questioned. It's simple fact. Deus Ex WAS a slow game. What the question should be is whether or not that made the game worse, which the majority of people who played it would tell you that it did not.
Whether speeding things up is going to make it any better, I doubt it, but we can hope that it at least won't make the game worse.
As for the statement that Deus Ex was a simulation and not a game experience, that's the biggest load of horseshit I've ever heard a dev say. So I'm fervently hoping that "Dugas" is the guy who draws wall textures, and not the guy who is in charge of determining what kind of game this becomes.
Our luck knowing, he's the next Harvey Smith.
Creston |
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81 Replies. 5 pages. Viewing page 2.
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