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Op Ed

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19 Replies. 1 pages. Viewing page 1.
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19. Re: Op Ed Dec 15, 2008, 21:57 Fuzzmatang
 
Nah it's PlayStation:Three

(yes, Planescape )
 
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18. Re: Op Ed Dec 15, 2008, 20:27 Jonny5
 
is PS:T Planescape:Torment?  
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17. Re: Op Ed Dec 15, 2008, 14:45 Fuzzmatang
 
PS:T was an excellent read, but I doubt a neophyte like Ebert would enjoy the experience as a whole. The gameplay wasn't particularly great or accessible.

I threw PS:T on the table because the narrative in PS:T seems to be the kind of thing Ebert criticizes games for lacking. Sure, tetris is pure gameplay and pretty much the perfect game in my book but it's not going to change his dismissive attitude of what games can be capable of like emotional resonance and deeper connection with the player.

And no, I don't believe games are "art." Sue me.

And yes, I find that Ebert seems to like the same kind of movies I do, so I read his reviews every now and then. In a time when others were panning Bladerunner, Ebert gave it a positive revew. He knows movies, knows the audience a movie might cater to and if it's not something he would normally want to see, he tries to put himself in their shoes to see if the movie is of value to them. For example, his 2 star review for Punisher: war zone...a good bad movie he calls it (I haven't seen it nor do I want to but his review pretty much sums up why I don't, while the audience that would want to see it have their reasons).

Obviously I don't base my choice to see a movie on what he wrote, but I find his reviews worth reading every now and then.
 
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16. Re: Op Ed Dec 15, 2008, 12:24 Dmitri_M
 
I've been reading Ebert's reviews since they went online in the late 90s. He might not know anything about video games, but he's a far better read than any video game reviewer. Perhaps because it's easier to relate films to life. That might explain why non-gamers see films as being closer to art than video games. Rarely any connection to an identifiable reality or emotion in games.

I'd never expect people from his genre to understand games anyhow. Rarely is gaming anything more than good 'ol stimulation. Like pornography or board games. For it to be art you'd have to introduce an idea or point to the game that goes beyond simple visual flare and how the player interacts with that. "The Graveyard" might be close to what could be considered "art".

"What is art" is a tiresome argument though.

This comment was edited on Dec 15, 2008, 12:33.
 
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15. Re: Op Ed Dec 15, 2008, 08:53 InBlack
 
Here is my list, nice and clear and in no particular order since I like em all equally:

1. Tie Fighter
2. Diablo (1+2+Exp set) I count Diablo I and II as one game
3. Starcraft
4. Doom2 (sorry Doom1, the SSG is crucial for great Multiplayer) Best Multi deathmatch and FFA ever!!!!
5. Quake1, second best 1 on 1 competitive FPS game ever!
6. Mechwarrior 2
7. Fallout2, best RPG ever!
8. Mortal Combat 3 (the version for the PC)
9. Half-Life (the whole series)
10. Daggerfall (I think the scope of this game is what impressed me most of all)

This comment was edited on Dec 15, 2008, 08:56.
 
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I have a nifty blue line!
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14. Re: Op Ed Dec 15, 2008, 05:21 Prez
 
On the subject of torture in games, I remember the scene in Metal Gear Solid where you (as Solid Snake) are tortured at length by Ocelot. What a great scene. You felt physically drained by the end of it because of the furious button-mashing you had to do to survive it - it felt almost like YOU had been tortured. Definitely one of the most memorable gaming scenes I have experienced.
 
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Goodbye my Monte boy. May you rest in the peace you never knew in life.
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13. Re: Op Ed Dec 15, 2008, 04:49 LittleMe
 
Z9000, nice references. There was a game in Atari Basic that was called Kingdom and it was, as far as I know, the first economy simulator (1979) in a game. It was fun too.

Also, the first FPS game was Battlezone but there were also a decent number of FPS games in the 80's including the Star Wars arcade game, Encounter (atari8bit), BallBlazer/blaster (atari8bit), etc..

Wolf3d was the first good FPS on PC I think. Also the RPG 'Questron' had FPS dungeons (1984 i think) where you could fire an arrow down a hallway in 3d (qualifying it as an FPS). It was slow though but just as good or better perhaps than Ultima 3.

Pioneer games are nice to honor, but sometimes/often the next generation is more fun to play.

This comment was edited on Dec 15, 2008, 05:01.
 
Avatar 23321
 
Political freedom can only be preceded by economic freedom which is preceded by monetary freedom.
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12. Re: Op Ed Dec 15, 2008, 01:08 Z9000
 
I am bending my responses to the top 10 games that were the best because they were pioneers to things we have enjoyed since. Therefore, they have to be the best 10. Heck 10 spots isn't enough to really do some classic games justice. I am skipping the whole arcade arena to and I even cheated to add a 12th. This is all from memory and I know if I sat down and thought about it I would come up with a finger snapping "Damn I forgot about that game" or two...

Adventure/Zork - The first text games that really changed the idea about computers being a game platform for me. Muds barrowed from these type games, Rogue and the CRPGs emerging as well as D&D.

Rogue - This was before Adventure and Zork if I recall correctly, but it took D&D to ascii dungeons and rooms. Diablo 2 is considered a rogue-like game.

Ultima 1 (3 was a classic)/Wizardry 1 - This is when computers really started showing what could be done with fantasy RPGs. Akalabeth came before Ultima 1 but it was pretty rough shod compared to Ultima 1. Many RPGs are still very similar to these games on some level. Legacy of the Ancients, Bard's Tale, Might and Magic were some of the ones that followed.

Computer Ambush/Balance of Power - These two games did some cool things. Computer Ambush had "We play". It was simultaneous turn based, in 3d, but all through text. Closest thing to a 3d shooter and real time lol. You controlled a squad of American or German players, plotted out all the moves, and the turn was compiled and replayed. Balance of power was the first true turn based strategy computer game I played. It was based on historical data of the Eastern Front in World War 2 if I remember right.

Empire/Command HQ/Herzog Zwei (Genesis) - This started the entire idea of RTS in my opinion even though Empire was turn based. Command HQ was a control military units and protect resources type game. Dune 2 pretty much nailed the model we still play for the most part today. Herzog Zwei was the first game that I actually played that had RTS applied.

Any Star Trek grid based game - They did so much for the pipework of almost all 4x games, space and ground. Trade Wars, Eve, so many games got ideas from what these games started.

Wasteland - Take Road Warrior the movie and turn it in to a game. What we have with Fallout and other post apocolyptic games got a lot of inspiration from this one.

Wing Commander - First space combat game I ever played on a computer (not counting the Star Trek types or any arcade stuff like Space War).

Castle Wolfenstein 2D on Apple ][ then 3D - Castle Wolfenstein was a huge deal... It introduced the concept of stealth in my opinion. Atleast the first time I ran in to it in the manner in which we think of it today. It was also the first Nazi shooter game I played. Later the 3D version came out and it was the first 3D shooter I can remember playing.

Karateka/Bilestoad - 2 games that had physical combat. The earliest I can remember (discounting the vector graphics knight fighting game in the arcade). Paved the way for games like Kung Fu Master in the arcade. Was waaaay before Mortal Combat or Street fighter.

M.U.L.E. - This game was revolutionary. If it were seen for the first time today, in a casual market, it would be bigger than sliced bread. In fact, why isn't it DLC on Xbox Live or PSN? Nintendo had a M.U.L.E. game, I bet they have the license. It simulated some basics of economy and was a competative game played between 4 people. Contributed to 4x games too.

Some Irish RPG on Apple ][/Utopia (Intellivision)/Imhothep (sp?) - These were the first concept of sim city or civilization I can remember on a computerized platform. There were board games which had heavier influences but these were working games Imhothep you had to manage food, rest, and a work force, and try and build the great pyramid. Utopia you managed a civilization building structures and trying to balance economies and other social needs. You basicly had 2 islands, and players raced each other to build the best civilization. The Irish RPG had something about shires and managing it's sketchy, can't remember the name of it. Anyways Romance of the 3 kingdoms, Sim City, Nobonunga's Ambition and many others followed.

That was so long ago but still seems like yesterday.

P.S. Torture was first toyed with on a computer game called "The Prisoner" (Apple ][) based on the BBC show of the same name. You tortured yourself unwittingly trying to get yourself to give away a certain number. If you did it to much you died and the game ended. But you didn't know you were torturing yourself at first hehe.
 
PS3 resurgance by GOW3 - Check! Mass Effect for PS3 - Check! Diablo 3 for consoles? I say "For sure"!
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11. Re: Roger Ebert... Dec 15, 2008, 00:29 LittleMe
 
Hehe. Well I bought U7 and tried to get into it. Richard Garriot even mentioned that he ignored almost all RPG's but he played Dungeon Master all the way through before doing U7. Great game, yes. Maybe it was because my PC wasn't fast enough to play it smoothly. Chunky game. I remember it was hard to get enough DOS memory free to load it and have a mouse driver, etc...  
Avatar 23321
 
Political freedom can only be preceded by economic freedom which is preceded by monetary freedom.
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10. Re: Roger Ebert... Dec 15, 2008, 00:17 The Half Elf
 
I'm sorry sir, you have Ultima 3 and 4 but not 7, therefore your list is invalid and just WRONG!  
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"I've never seen a feature like this before. It warms your ass. It's wonderful" -Walter Bishop
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9. Re: Roger Ebert... Dec 14, 2008, 23:59 LittleMe
 
Yifes I like reading your list. Its nice to see what people like here. Here's my abbreviated list:

Ultima 3 - 1984
Ultima 4 - 1985
Seven Cities of Gold - 1984
Agent USA - 1984
Dungeon Master - 1987/88
Chaos Strikes Back - 1989
Doom I - 1993
Doom II - 1994
Quake 1 - 1996
Civilization - 1990 (?)
Total Annihilation - 1997
Battlefield 1942 - 2002
Battleifled 2 - 2005
Battlefield 2142 - 2006
Tomenet - ~2001 (but has ancestry back to the 1970s)

And a few arcade games..

Galaga - 1981
Berzerk - 1980
Robotron - 1982
Virtua Fighter 2 - 1995

For me, games are not improving in recent years. Production values have skyrocketed, but modern gameplay itself is regressing to compromise gameplay for accessibility (sales). Fallout3 is a good example. Lots of content, not a huge amount of depth in gameplay. GTA IV is the same, lots of content, not much depth. True too that some of the games I list aren't very deep, like the Dooms.

This comment was edited on Dec 15, 2008, 00:03.
 
Avatar 23321
 
Political freedom can only be preceded by economic freedom which is preceded by monetary freedom.
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8. Re: Roger Ebert... Dec 14, 2008, 22:38 danebramage
 
On games as art: they aren't. Games are games. No one would call Pick Up Stix or Checkers art. No one would call Football art. But videogames can have art in them, which is what we're referring to when we mistakenly talk about games as art. The actual strategic gameplay--say, dodging the opponent and killing him with your laser gun--can be delivered within the context of a dramatic narrative, with visually and aurally artistic accoutrements, but those things can also be left out entirely without affecting the gameplay in the least. That is to say, there is still a game there even after all the art is taken away.

This is fundamentally different from a book or a film. Take away the dramatic narrative and any other artistic qualities in a film and you are left with nothing. The film is its story. Not so with games. The story is simply the context within which the game takes place. Ebert is looking at it from just this point of view. His idea of a game is, for example, tic-tac-toe. I go. You go. Someone wins, someone loses. Wrapping that up in some kind of dramatic storyline is all fine and good, but that storyline is not, strictly speaking, part of the game.
 
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7. Re: Roger Ebert... Dec 14, 2008, 21:25 Yifes
 
Games aren't getting better, they are getting progressively worse. If I had to name my top 10 games of all time, not a single one of them would have come out in the last 1-10 years.

Really? Here's my list:

X-COM (1993)
Starcraft (1997)
Unreal: Tournament (1999)
Jagged Alliance 2 (1999)
Alpha Centauri (1999)
PS:T (1999)
Prince of Persia: Sands of Time (2003)
Bioshock (2007)
Portal (2007)
TF2 (2007)

I want to read what he has to write after playing something like PS:T.

PS:T was an excellent read, but I doubt a neophyte like Ebert would enjoy the experience as a whole. The gameplay wasn't particularly great or accessible.

This comment was edited on Dec 14, 2008, 22:05.
 
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6. Re: Op Ed Dec 14, 2008, 20:35 Fang
 
Everyone has rose colored glasses for their past.

It's like Christmas when you were little. When it's new, its exciting. It starts getting old hat, but then you become Santa Claus.
 
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5. Re: Op Ed Dec 14, 2008, 20:27 The Half Elf
 
Well it's kinda a toss up. He's like the older guy on the Bonus Round on Gametrailers. He's not a 'core' gamer, and so he's probably somwhere between desktop casual and wii bowling.  
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"I've never seen a feature like this before. It warms your ass. It's wonderful" -Walter Bishop
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4. Re: Op Ed Dec 14, 2008, 20:17 Cyanotetyphas
 
Actually, I think games are getting more fun as time goes on. As far as art, well, who knows.  
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Synthetic Error - Entertainment bloggin http://syntheticerror.wordpress.com/
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3. Re: Roger Ebert... Dec 14, 2008, 20:17 Prez
 
I'd rather knit than listen to Roger Ebert, so I think it's a wash.  
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Goodbye my Monte boy. May you rest in the peace you never knew in life.
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2. Re: Roger Ebert... Dec 14, 2008, 18:24 Fuzzmatang
 
Yeah who has been recommending games for him to try? What games has he played? I'm guessing it's the big AAA shlock like Gears of War, Halo, GTA 4. And he's probably just watching videos of them on GameTrailers.

I want to read what he has to write after playing something like PS:T.
 
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1. Roger Ebert... Dec 14, 2008, 18:15 JohnBirshire
 
Games aren't getting better, they are getting progressively worse. If I had to name my top 10 games of all time, not a single one of them would have come out in the last 1-10 years.

Have fun with that knitting Mr. Ebert!
 
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19 Replies. 1 pages. Viewing page 1.
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