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More Fable II PC Rumors

German site Gamona reports hearing from a "gut unterrichteter Quelle" (well informed source) that a PC version of Fable II is coming, a prospect hinted at recently by Peter Molyneux. They also say they've gotten indications that a release may happen as soon as mid-February 2009, though they don't give any indication of where their source is from, or why they consider him so gut unterrichteter. Thanks Joystiq.

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40. Re: More Fable II PC Rumors Dec 2, 2008, 15:24 Dades
 
Yes, there were some problems with server browsing and I think they've learned from that, but the game itself is well-optimized for each platform. Everyone is pretty thrilled with it regardless of which platform they're on.

To be fair, I haven't seen them learn from it as it's still not fixed nor have they have even mentioned it publicly in three weeks. I do agree with the rest of your points however.

I still believe however that there is a reduced revenue stream for AAA PC titles these days. Whether it's due to piracy, publisher mistakes or whatever isn't important. What is important is that PC gamers want more content and better UI implementations despite a lowered revenue stream. For every Lich King and Fallout 3 there are half a dozen commercial titles that fall flat.

I think multi-platform development is important for the future of the gaming industry in general. With consoles being so expensive and PC's already at the ~$500 mark, people simply can't afford to keep buying up multiple videogame systems. Delivering one game across all platforms is important to ensure success and profitability. The real question is, does the PC deliver enough revenue to warrant retooling releases for it? I can't answer that question. I think some titles yes and other titles wouldn't have a chance even with extras and a retooled PC UI implementation. FPS games in particular seem to have very high piracy rates and in general seem to be in decline compared to previous years due to their moving to consoles.

This comment was edited on Dec 2, 2008, 15:30.
 
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39. Re: More Fable II PC Rumors Nov 30, 2008, 23:58 Wowbagger_TIP
 
I think that publishers should try to maximize profits by focusing on the development and marketing of a game on one platform, rather than many. Games like Gears of War, Fable, Little Big Planet, Resistance, WoW, The Sims, etc, have shown that this is perfectly capable of generating much profit. The problem is that most publishers don't have much faith in their own games so instead of trying to maximize profits by maximizing quality, they try to minimize losses by forcing multiplatform development.


I don't disagree. Developers make too many compromises to appeal to everyone such that nothing stands out and it doesn't really please anyone. But just like they could focus on a single platform as you suggest they could also spend the time to properly exploit each individual platform - even features such as leaning could be implemented in a PC version but omitted for the console version and vice versa for regenerating health; the core technology is the same. Developers should embrace each different platform instead of just trying to make the experience the same across all. I maintain that you don't need to drop multiplatform support in order to have a good game for a specific platform. The reality is that there are few developers/publishers willing to take a risk with a big PC project that does something new.

I think that Valve has shown that multi-platform development can be done and done well. Left 4 Dead is a good example of it. Yes, there were some problems with server browsing and I think they've learned from that, but the game itself is well-optimized for each platform. Everyone is pretty thrilled with it regardless of which platform they're on.

I think console developers need to take the time or hire the right people to understand the differences between what PC gamers like and what console gamers like, and make sure that they account for that in their designs. Yeah, that's more work, so who knows if they'll actually do it, but it is really the difference between a company that puts out quality product for any platform they develop for, like Valve, and a company the puts out crap for non-lead platforms, like most others.

This comment was edited on Dec 1, 2008, 00:00.
 
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38. Re: More Fable II PC Rumors Nov 30, 2008, 21:41 theyarecomingforyou
 
I think that publishers should try to maximize profits by focusing on the development and marketing of a game on one platform, rather than many. Games like Gears of War, Fable, Little Big Planet, Resistance, WoW, The Sims, etc, have shown that this is perfectly capable of generating much profit. The problem is that most publishers don't have much faith in their own games so instead of trying to maximize profits by maximizing quality, they try to minimize losses by forcing multiplatform development.
I don't disagree. Developers make too many compromises to appeal to everyone such that nothing stands out and it doesn't really please anyone. But just like they could focus on a single platform as you suggest they could also spend the time to properly exploit each individual platform - even features such as leaning could be implemented in a PC version but omitted for the console version and vice versa for regenerating health; the core technology is the same. Developers should embrace each different platform instead of just trying to make the experience the same across all. I maintain that you don't need to drop multiplatform support in order to have a good game for a specific platform. The reality is that there are few developers/publishers willing to take a risk with a big PC project that does something new.

NEway, I think we're going back and forth on this. I don't think we really disagree with each other.
 
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37. Re: More Fable II PC Rumors Nov 30, 2008, 20:19 Jerykk
 
But that's exactly my point, it's purely the AI reaction that makes the difference. Games could just as easily include that invisibility without leaning if you poked out part of your body. It's purely an AI response which can be altered at win - it's not fundamental to gameplay.

They could include the invisibility without leaning, though it wouldn't be very realistic and you'd still leave most of your body exposed. In real life, people lean around corners in order to minimize such exposure. I expect to be able to do the same in semi-realistic games.

But in Half-Life 2 'f' is flashlight and 'e' is use. It's also quite awkward moving your fingers up to 'q' and 'e' to lean, especially as it means you're taking your fingers off your movement keys.

Not a big issue. Simply remap Q and E to lean, F to Use and some other key (maybe V) to Flashlight. In any case, HL2 wouldn't benefit much from leaning given that it's a run and gun shooter. Leaning would be redundant in Quake and Tribes as well. Now, if it was like Operation Flashpoint, that would be a different matter entirely.

Well, drag and drop inventories don't suit most games.

Any game with an inventory is suited to a drag and drop system. However, if a game is designed for a console, it will never use such a system.

Also, developers are perfectly able to change the interface to suit PC - like with Mass Effect (even if the changes weren't radical) - but they often choose not to.

Completely changing an interface takes a lot of work. ME made some minor changes but in the end, the inventory interface was still lousy. Inventories need to be designed with drag and drop in mind from the very beginning. You have to consider the size of the item icons and you have to make sure they are all distinct so players can easily distinguish between them. You also have to focus on making fewer, more unique items rather than many generic items with minor differences. Converting a console text list inventory into a drag and drop inventory is far more work than most developers are willing to do. However, if a game is designed for the PC only, you simply implement the drag and drop inventory right off the bat because you don't have to worry about making it work with gamepads.

The Witcher was a PC game and the inventory / quest system was very busy and all over the place - just because the icons were small doesn't make it any better, actually worse because you then have to hover your mouse over every bloody icon to find what you want.

The problem with The Witcher's inventory was that most of the ingredients were redundant. I think it would have worked out much better if all ingredients were unique, so you'd be able to easily recognize them from their icons. This wasn't an issue with the drag and drop system itself, but rather with the redundant items.

I think regenerating health was pretty low on the list of things wrong with that game. Personally I really liked the FarCry 2 system of segmented regenerating health - if you don't take a full segment of damage then it regenerates that one bar if you're not hit for a certain time.

I had big issues with the regenerating health in Crysis. No matter the situation, I could just run away and regenerate my health completely in seconds. In Far Cry, you couldn't do this. Hell, in one level you start off with very little health and one bullet, with medkits nowhere to be seen. Oh, there were also mutants all over the place that could kill you in about one hit. That was intense and something that wouldn't work with regenerating health.

I do agree that the health system in FC2 is a nice compromise, though.

Because multiplatform games allows for bigger budgets and more polish - PC exclusive games like The Witcher and Clear Sky needed quite a bit of support to iron out all the problems versus something like Bioshock.

The bigger budgets of multiplatform titles is completely offset by the fact that the game has to be ported to multiple platforms during development. If that same budget was applied to a platform-exclusive title, it would definitely be more polished than it would be as a multiplatform game. In addition, PC versions almost always get lowest priority in multiplatform development (due to lack of certification and lowest expected sales) which is why so many are buggy and unoptimized.

I just don't see consoles being the primary issue for bad game design - I see capitalism as the biggest issue.

I agree. Money is undoubtedly the root of all these problems. The stifling of innovation and risk-taking, the attempt to appeal to the largest possible audience, multiplatform development... all stem from the desire to maximize profits. However, all that considered, multiplatform development itself is fundamentally problematic, as it divides the focus from one platform to several. It's like trying to make a super sports car that is also fuel efficient and environmentally friendly. In the end, too many compromises will have to be made, resulting in a car that might be solid but will never be a classic in any regard.

I think that publishers should try to maximize profits by focusing on the development and marketing of a game on one platform, rather than many. Games like Gears of War, Fable, Little Big Planet, Resistance, WoW, The Sims, etc, have shown that this is perfectly capable of generating much profit. The problem is that most publishers don't have much faith in their own games so instead of trying to maximize profits by maximizing quality, they try to minimize losses by forcing multiplatform development.

This comment was edited on Nov 30, 2008, 20:22.
 
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36. Re: More Fable II PC Rumors Nov 30, 2008, 19:51 theyarecomingforyou
 
If the AI is decently scripted, there are. In the NOLF games, for example, leaning around a corner would give you a moment of invisiblity to the AI. If you leaned for too long, they'd recognize you and attack. Similarly, if you just stepped out from the corner, you'd get attacked.
But that's exactly my point, it's purely the AI reaction that makes the difference. Games could just as easily include that invisibility without leaning if you poked out part of your body. It's purely an AI response which can be altered at win - it's not fundamental to gameplay.

Two problems there: For one, Q and E have been assigned to lean forever, without issue. In those games, F is assigned to Use. I've never, ever had a problem with this setup and it doesn't feel awkward in the least to me.
But in Half-Life 2 'f' is flashlight and 'e' is use. It's also quite awkward moving your fingers up to 'q' and 'e' to lean, especially as it means you're taking your fingers off your movement keys. I suppose 'alt' modifier would work, though being close to the Windows button I'd imagine that would lead to a few annoying situations. But really, all it does is trigger a few AI responses that could be just as easily implemented without a lean by calculating the percentage of your body you stick out.

Speaking of Deus Ex 2, interface is also affected by multiplatform development. If a console is the lead platform, the interface will have to be workable with a gamepad. Have you noticed how very few games offer drag and drop inventories anymore? That's because drag and drop doesn't work well with gamepads.
Well, drag and drop inventories don't suit most games. Also, developers are perfectly able to change the interface to suit PC - like with Mass Effect (even if the changes weren't radical) - but they often choose not to. I think it's more to do with bad development choices. The Witcher was a PC game and the inventory / quest system was very busy and all over the place - just because the icons were small doesn't make it any better, actually worse because you then have to hover your mouse over every bloody icon to find what you want. Interfaces in games need to be improved, period. I liked the minimal HUD idea for FarCry 2, though I still think more can be done.

Crysis had regenerating health, yes, and that was a mistake which it paid for.
I think regenerating health was pretty low on the list of things wrong with that game. Personally I really liked the FarCry 2 system of segmented regenerating health - if you don't take a full segment of damage then it regenerates that one bar if you're not hit for a certain time. This didn't apply to the final segment, which also requires additional medical attention. It worked really well without feeling like cheating and still requiring you to procure medkits.

I really don't understand why you refuse to acknowledge that multiplatform development does not benefit games. If a game is designed exclusively for the PC, it will obviously be able to take advantage of all the features that M+KB provide.
Because multiplatform games allows for bigger budgets and more polish - PC exclusive games like The Witcher and Clear Sky needed quite a bit of support to iron out all the problems versus something like Bioshock. I certainly think that many aspects of multiplatform development should be improved (interfaces, mod support, etc) but I certainly don't see it as destroying PC gaming.

You can argue that certain design decisions (like unified ammo) aren't affected by multiplatform development but you can't argue that no decisions are affected by it.
I'm not arguing that NO decisions are affected by multiplatform development as that would be ludicrous. However, there are so many factors involved and it is very difficult to attribute any specific feature to such development, as games like Crysis demonstrate. For all we know some decisions made to accommodate consoles may have benefited PC gaming, just like some will be to the detriment.

I really think the bigger issue is developers thinking they can expand appeal by making certain decisions (like with Deus Ex 2) but completely misunderstanding the reality. Games cost much more to develop and there is certainly a move towards the more casual, as games like WOW, The Sims and Spore have demonstrated. We don't get any real say over the industry as individuals but certainly our purchases speak to something. I just don't see consoles being the primary issue for bad game design - I see capitalism as the biggest issue.
 
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35. Re: More Fable II PC Rumors Nov 30, 2008, 19:18 Jerykk
 
There really isn't much difference between poking just your head round and poking your head with your body round, particularly not when it comes to reactions from AI.

If the AI is decently scripted, there are. In the NOLF games, for example, leaning around a corner would give you a moment of invisiblity to the AI. If you leaned for too long, they'd recognize you and attack. Similarly, if you just stepped out from the corner, you'd get attacked.

Leaning also lets you shoot around corners without exposing most of your body. This is very useful in realistic shooters.

You may not consider leaning to be very significant but I do. I'm playing through Far Cry 2 right now and it really, really annoys me that I can't lean. I hate having to slowly nudge myself sideways and hope and I'm not exposing myself enough to be seen by the AI.

As I said, and something you didn't acknowledge, on a keyboard it is awkward because of button binds and not intuitive. On console you've actually got the shoulder buttons, so actually it's better suited to them.

Two problems there: For one, Q and E have been assigned to lean forever, without issue. In those games, F is assigned to Use. I've never, ever had a problem with this setup and it doesn't feel awkward in the least to me.

Second problem is that the shoulder buttons in console games are often used for other functions. Gamepads have a distinct lack of buttons when compared to keyboards, meaning designers have to either streamline or remove functionality in order to make it work with a gamepad.

I think HL2:Ep2 is the best game in the genre I have played by far and it was also developed for X360/PS3. And before you try to counter it by saying that the PC was the lead platform I would say that decisions are obviously made based upon how they work across all platforms.

Episode 2 was essentially an expansion pack to HL2. HL2 was designed for the PC only and eventually ported to consoles. Episode 2 was also designed for the PC but this time, it was ported to consoles during development. In any case, HL2 is a game that is relatively multiplatform friendly. It's not very fast, doesn't require absolute precision and isn't terribly complex. It's a good game, for sure, but it's never really maximized the potential of the PC platform.

The point is that developers/publishers are going for more money to recoup costs and that means decisions that reflect that, just like in the movie industry (special effects draw in the crowds). Multiplatform development is a symptom of the change, not the cause.

I agree that multiplatform development is the result of publishers trying to maximize profits. However, as you mentioned earlier, design decisions are made based upon how they work across all platforms. That means that the weakest platform serves as a bottleneck to all others.

Quake would not exist if consoles were the only gaming platform. It was explicitly designed for the speed and accuracy of the mouse and keyboard. Strategy games would not exist for the same reason. With multiplatform development becoming standard, games that require the speed, accuracy and flexibility of M+KB are growing increasingly rare. Strategy games are now being designed for consoles and shooters have been designed for consoles for quite some time.

Here's another example. In Deus Ex, designed for the PC, you could actually log in to computer systems by typing in usernames and passwords. You could also type up your own notes. Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines also had a hacking interface where you had to manually type commands. These weren't huge features but they were appreciated and helped add to the immersion of the games. In Deus Ex 2, designed for the Xbox, this functionality was removed. Why? Because you can't type with a gamepad.

Speaking of Deus Ex 2, interface is also affected by multiplatform development. If a console is the lead platform, the interface will have to be workable with a gamepad. Have you noticed how very few games offer drag and drop inventories anymore? That's because drag and drop doesn't work well with gamepads. Drag and drop is clearly more efficient than scrolling through long lists of text but the latter is now standard because of consoles. The only games that still use drag and drop are, surprise, the ones designed specifically for the PC, ala STALKER.

Here's another example, though this one deals with the contrasting standards between PC and console gamers. Regenerating health and aim assist are considered standard for shooters on consoles. They are definitely not considered standard on PC, where players have the benefit of playing with a superior control scheme and have years of experience with the genre. Crysis had regenerating health, yes, and that was a mistake which it paid for. Far Cry didn't have regenerating health and even though the game was very similar to Crysis, it was much better received by gamers. I know that Far Cry was definitely far more intense than Crysis.

I really don't understand why you refuse to acknowledge that multiplatform development does not benefit games. If a game is designed exclusively for the PC, it will obviously be able to take advantage of all the features that M+KB provide. If it is designed for a console and then ported to the PC, it won't. This is simple fact. You can argue that certain design decisions (like unified ammo) aren't affected by multiplatform development but you can't argue that no decisions are affected by it.
 
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34. Re: More Fable II PC Rumors Nov 30, 2008, 14:09 theyarecomingforyou
 
As for Far Cry 2... I'm trying to get into it.. but I'm rather peeved with the every 2 mins you'll be rammed by a truck or hit a check point. All I wanted to do was start a fire and watch it burn like a California wildfire and was hugely dissapointed
Yeah, that is annoying. The core gameplay itself is very enjoyable but the respawning and poorly designed missions let it down. The potential was huge. I don't regret buying it for a second but it did become a bit of a chore towards the end (same with Bioshock), whereas HL2:Ep2 I couldn't put it down.

Even with a game like Mass Effect, where they retooled the interface for the PC after the console version was released, was obviously originally designed for the consoles without much consideration of the PC. They did an adequate job of fixing the interface and translating the controls, but it still looks and feels like a console shooter.
Yeah, for a redesigned interface it didn't really feel truly PC. The biggest problem the game had was that it was just too casual - there was no difficulty with any of the encounters and it just felt like a leisurely stroll. It was like a dumbed down KOTOR, though I did like the conversation system.

Shoulder buttons are not suited for leaning because the purpose for leaning is usually to fire from cover. Since firing is generally handled by a trigger button, you can't lean and fire on the same side as your trigger button.
Yeah, I kinda realised that after I posted. It would be nice to see some advances to the core gameplay, features like lean - FarCry 2 did some really nice things with health and navigation and it did feel very fresh (until the repetition sunk in). I think developers just take the core gameplay for granted and don't really look at how to improve it, at least to some degree. Cover systems were an attempt to do something fresh, though I don't like them because they use a third person system - a first person cover system is what we need (is it Killzone 2 that has that?).
 
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33. Re: More Fable II PC Rumors Nov 30, 2008, 13:49 PHJF
 
LOL you're going to complain about the expensive controller?

I guess Rock Band is a fucking terrible game because what the fuck am I going to do with a fake guitar.
 
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32. Re: More Fable II PC Rumors Nov 30, 2008, 13:11 Wowbagger_TIP
 
As for Far Cry 2... I'm trying to get into it.. but I'm rather peeved with the every 2 mins you'll be rammed by a truck or hit a check point. All I wanted to do was start a fire and watch it burn like a California wildfire and was hugely dissapointed

I've just started FC2, but I'm already hoping for some mods to increase the respawn times for the checkpoints (should be at least 12-24 hours), give me a better ability to fight from a vehicle, and maybe to make reliability adjustments to the weapons. They seem to jam up way too often. Even militia fighters must clean their weapons once in a while, right?
 
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31. Re: More Fable II PC Rumors Nov 30, 2008, 12:57 Wowbagger_TIP
 
As I said, and something you didn't acknowledge, on a keyboard it is awkward because of button binds and not intuitive. On console you've actually got the shoulder buttons, so actually it's better suited to them.
Shoulder buttons are not suited for leaning because the purpose for leaning is usually to fire from cover. Since firing is generally handled by a trigger button, you can't lean and fire on the same side as your trigger button. Not to mention that the with the limited number of buttons available, the shoulder buttons tend to already be spoken for by other functions.

I think HL2:Ep2 is the best game in the genre I have played by far and it was also developed for X360/PS3. And before you try to counter it by saying that the PC was the lead platform I would say that decisions are obviously made based upon how they work across all platforms. The fact that I enjoyed so much clearly demonstrates that multiplatform development does not have to be to the detriment of PC gaming.
If the decisions are made with all platforms in mind, and the appropriate changes to the mechanics of each platform are made as well, then you can produce a good multi-platform shooter. I think the real issue is that console developers make the decisions without taking the PC into account. It generally gets back-burnered and someone has to figure out later how to translate the functionality to the PC before release. There are a ton of examples of this.

Even with a game like Mass Effect, where they retooled the interface for the PC after the console version was released, was obviously originally designed for the consoles without much consideration of the PC. They did an adequate job of fixing the interface and translating the controls, but it still looks and feels like a console shooter. I think Ghost Recon 2 did a decent job of getting the feel of a PC shooter right, but it still lacked the complexity of earlier PC versions of the game.

Actually, that was one of the best new features. What the hoverboard did was to stop vehicles being overly powerful and avoid the tedium of walking huge distances - this was counteracted by adding a penalty if you were stuck while using it. They were only used for vehicle CTF, which was one of several game modes. The hoverboard was very much in the same vein as the translocator introduces back in the original UT.
I agree with this. I think the hoverboards were a great addition to vehicle CTF. They were implemented well, and added some nice new capabilities while still giving them weaknesses.

This comment was edited on Nov 30, 2008, 13:04.
 
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30. Re: More Fable II PC Rumors Nov 30, 2008, 12:52 The Half Elf
 
Oh I agree with the characters in Half Life 2 series, then again they had a guy from Pixar setup their facial animation system, and they defiantly got their money's worth out of it.

And as a person who never played System Shock series I agree that I hold Bioshock over the other games, but as a complete cohesive experience.

But I guess the one major thing that irk's me about Half Life Series is I have no love of the character I'm suppose to be playing. And the character I loved to death was Dogg. I was more pissed off about what happened to Eli in Ep 2 then Alex at the end of HL2 or Ep 1.

BTW I still want the original Half Life 2 demo where the dev got into a house and moved stuff to block the door and the Combine finally kicked it in.

As for Far Cry 2... I'm trying to get into it.. but I'm rather peeved with the every 2 mins you'll be rammed by a truck or hit a check point. All I wanted to do was start a fire and watch it burn like a California wildfire and was hugely dissapointed
 
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29. Re: More Fable II PC Rumors Nov 30, 2008, 12:29 theyarecomingforyou
 
Yes its always better to cut off a large portion of the viewing area
in a game no? what are you still playing on a VGA monitor at 800x600?
I play on my 22" widescreen monitor at 1680x1050. I would prefer Horz+ to Vert- but didn't have a problem with Bioshock's widescreen implementation either. I personally don't like high FOVs for the warping at the edge, as I played around with the option in TF2. Obviously I'd support giving users the ability to choose in advanced video options as clearly there are people like yourself that do care.
 
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28. Re: More Fable II PC Rumors Nov 30, 2008, 12:19 theyarecomingforyou
 
And theyarecomingforyou, fanboi's can totally fubar the player review scores on Metacritic in much the same way they can on any other system that allows it (Amazon).
Of course. MetaCritic should not be relied upon and is hardly the most reliable site but it is useful for reference and clearly gamers and reviewers have a higher opinion of HL2 than COD4.

And personally I enjoyed more moments from Call of Duty 4 then Half Life 2 and it's episodes combined.
Fair enough, but the opposite is true for me. HL2 provided a huge array of memorable characters that were incredibly well delivered and were very believable and a very cinematic experience, whereas COD4 didn't cut it for me.

Hell all the AI did in Half Life 2 was rush at you or shoot you
I agree that the AI in HL2 was weak. However, the AI in FarCry 2 was considerably better (minus some design decisions) yet that doesn't make it a better game.

Fion and HL games aren't heavily scripted?!? You can walk through the starting area of HL2 100 times and it's exactly the same every time. Or any other part of HL2 or Episodes 1 and 2. And the only point in the Half Life series that wasn't a corridor shooter was the end of Episode 2.
It's about the delivery and COD4 feels scripted whereas HL2 seem more genuine. It's to do with the hand gestures, body language, facial expressions, quality of the voice acting, placement of scripted events and, most importantly, the pacing that make the experience what it is - COD4 felt wooden to me, whereas HL2 felt much more organic (though definitely too linear in areas, especially Ep1).

I'm not trying to argue that HL2 is perfect but Ep2 was the most compelling first person I've ever played. There is such intrigue with the plot and the emotion delivered leaves all other games in the dust, same with facial animations and body language. Valve focused on features other than simply graphics and even years later games have yet to catchup. The only games that have engaged me in a similar way were STALKER / Clear Sky but they have too many issues to make them classics. I even hold FarCry 2 and Bioshock higher than COD4, though both have issues to stop them being classics (FarCry 2 especially).

At the end of the day it's all subjective but it's not like my opinion is controversial and plenty of other people agree with me.

This comment was edited on Nov 30, 2008, 12:21.
 
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27. Re: More Fable II PC Rumors Nov 30, 2008, 11:50 The Half Elf
 
Fion and HL games aren't heavily scripted?!? You can walk through the starting area of HL2 100 times and it's exactly the same every time. Or any other part of HL2 or Episodes 1 and 2. And the only point in the Half Life series that wasn't a corridor shooter was the end of Episode 2.

I mean if your gonna do the 'one better than' at least pick a game that isn't the exact same thing your trying to discredit.

And theyarecomingforyou, fanboi's can totally fubar the player review scores on Metacritic in much the same way they can on any other system that allows it (Amazon).

And personally I enjoyed more moments from Call of Duty 4 then Half Life 2 and it's episodes combined.
Granted being thrown in a vehicle by Dogg was cool, but crawling out of the Helicopter to your death (again in my personal opinion) trumped it.

Hell all the AI did in Half Life 2 was rush at you or shoot you, where as in COD4 (defending the tank 1st mish) ya had them flanking you, use cover etc.

And to top it off they took the universally hated rail shooter and turned it into an awesome experience with the Gunship.

This comment was edited on Nov 30, 2008, 12:05.
 
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26. Re: More Fable II PC Rumors Nov 30, 2008, 11:37 Bone43
 
Stop spouting bullshit - it, like with every game for years, has widescreen support out-of-the-box. The only contention was over the implementation.

Yes its always better to cut off a large portion of the viewing area
in a game no? what are you still playing on a VGA monitor at 800x600?
hell with out the FOV fix i could hardly drive a vehicle and see with the map open this is the best they can do pretty lame.
 
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25. Re: More Fable II PC Rumors Nov 30, 2008, 11:17 Rilcon
 
Fable 2 was fun, I might rebuy on PC if it has added stuff like Fable 1 did.  
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24. Re: More Fable II PC Rumors Nov 30, 2008, 11:10 theyarecomingforyou
 
CoD4 is the most over-hyped pos shooter since Halo. It's multiplayer is solid (though not remotely as enjoyable as Valves offerings,) but it's singlplayer is entirely script based, short, barely entertaining after a few lvls because you know exactly what the game is going to throw at you next, and the game has absolutely zero replay value. It's a corridor shooter with invisible walls (or artifical ones,) and no sealing.
I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought that (well, maybe not quite as strongly). Certainly it's very polished but it really does feel the same each time you play through it.

And how about UT3 and those hoverboards! Boy, guess who the target audience for those were.
Actually, that was one of the best new features. What the hoverboard did was to stop vehicles being overly powerful and avoid the tedium of walking huge distances - this was counteracted by adding a penalty if you were stuck while using it. They were only used for vehicle CTF, which was one of several game modes. The hoverboard was very much in the same vein as the translocator introduces back in the original UT.

It takes real effort to dumb down an online shooter for the kiddiez.
I think you underestimate children. Kids have great reflexes, like violence and like playing adult games. I loved Doom as a kid and certainly didn't need, or want, anything dumbed down. No, games are "dumbed down" for the people that aren't really into gaming and sit on the sidelines, only buying a handful of games a year. Counter-Strike and TF2 aren't dumbed down for kids yet children make up a very significant part of the userbase.

BTW, is that quote in your signature actually from me?
 
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23. Re: More Fable II PC Rumors Nov 30, 2008, 10:42 Dreagon
 
Yes, but we saw what happened to the last sequel due to multi-platform development.

One was classic, one was crap - there's not enough history to conclude a trend. Certainly the developers have acknowledge the mistakes made with the sequel, though that's not to say they won't make many themselves.
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Actually, yes we do. We have other examples of sequels that didn't live up to their predecessors due to consolitus. It wasn't just DX2.
Remember Thief 3? It's only saving grace was that it wasn't as bad as DX2, but it still fell far far short of the games it followed...with many of the same problems of DX2. Small claustrophobic levels, dumbed down gameplay, etc. And how about UT3 and those hoverboards! Boy, guess who the target audience for those were. It takes real effort to dumb down an online shooter for the kiddiez.
 
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"@Dreagon - Comparing Oblivion to Deer Hunter was just ridiculous and you should be ashamed of yourself... it just made you look like a Class-A cunt." - theyarecomingforyou
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22. Re: More Fable II PC Rumors Nov 30, 2008, 10:14 Fion
 
I highly disagree that HL2 is 'THE benchmark' for FPS games. I would have to say that honor goes to Call of Duty 4.

And on that point you'd be WRONG!

CoD4 is the most over-hyped pos shooter since Halo. It's multiplayer is solid (though not remotely as enjoyable as Valves offerings,) but it's singlplayer is entirely script based, short, barely entertaining after a few lvls because you know exactly what the game is going to throw at you next, and the game has absolutely zero replay value. It's a corridor shooter with invisible walls (or artifical ones,) and no sealing.

This comment was edited on Nov 30, 2008, 10:34.
 
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21. Re: More Fable II PC Rumors Nov 30, 2008, 09:50 theyarecomingforyou
 
As for King Kong and Star Wars, I guess it would be cheaper to build New York City of the Era, and have stop motion gorilla?
No, but they should work to the limitations of the technology. Instead they use graphics to represent large scale scenes that simply doesn't work very well. The original Star Wars films made better use of technology for the time. It's the basis of how horror movies work - you don't show everything but you imply it.

I highly disagree that HL2 is 'THE benchmark' for FPS games. I would have to say that honor goes to Call of Duty 4.
Short missions, no coherence, no real depth, no connection with the characters you play... I really cannot agree with you. It deserves praise but I think it is significantly overrated. This is something also reinforced by critics: on MetaCritic HL2 got 96 (9.3 from users) and COD4 got 92 (8.7 from users). Clearly I am not alone in my position, though I do not claim my opinion is any more significant than yours.

There is still a LOT that could be done with Mechwarrior that has never been done. It would probably sell like hotcakes if they made a decent PC game again. (hint: let us play as elementals!)
I agree. Same with Tie Fighter, Grim Fandango, Tribes and a host of other games.

Yes, but we saw what happened to the last sequel due to multi-platform development.
One was classic, one was crap - there's not enough history to conclude a trend. Certainly the developers have acknowledge the mistakes made with the sequel, though that's not to say they won't make many themselves.

Tribes held up for a long long time. It wasn't Counter-Strike big, but it had a loyal following for years.
I was a huge Tribes fan but the community was very split. Even the T2 community was very split, complaining about skiing changes and the exception errors - every patch was a contentious issue. Great game but I can understand why the franchise died off. Hopefully it will be revived as I would buy a decent sequel in a flash.

Sorry, can't agree with you there. Leaning has a HUGE significance to gameplay.
There really isn't much difference between poking just your head round and poking your head with your body round, particularly not when it comes to reactions from AI. To say it is of huge significance is absurd. And yes, Rainbow Six was one of my favourite games for the time - planning out missions, load-outs, etc. I played Vegas 2 and couldn't believe how shit it was - not because of consoles but because of design decisions in general (all action, no tactics).

The lack of buttons on gamepads means that leaning is difficult to implement which is why third-person cover systems are becoming increasingly popular.
As I said, and something you didn't acknowledge, on a keyboard it is awkward because of button binds and not intuitive. On console you've actually got the shoulder buttons, so actually it's better suited to them.

Do you think games were better back when they were designed for the PC or do you think they are better when they are ported from consoles?
I think HL2:Ep2 is the best game in the genre I have played by far and it was also developed for X360/PS3. And before you try to counter it by saying that the PC was the lead platform I would say that decisions are obviously made based upon how they work across all platforms. The fact that I enjoyed so much clearly demonstrates that multiplatform development does not have to be to the detriment of PC gaming.

The point is that developers/publishers are going for more money to recoup costs and that means decisions that reflect that, just like in the movie industry (special effects draw in the crowds). Multiplatform development is a symptom of the change, not the cause.
 
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