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Far Cry 2 DRM Follow-up

DRM is official on the Far Cry 2 Forums is a post by a user reporting that a conversation with a Ubisoft representative about DRM in Far Cry 2, and a subsequent post by a Ubi Forum Manager confirms the use of the SecuROM DRM indicated on the French Ubisoft Shop yesterday (story). On a semi-related note, Riccitiello Says DRM a Minority Controversy has comments from the EA CEO saying he feels that Digital Rights management only represents an issue for 0.2% of their users: "We're still working out the kinks. We implemented a form of DRM and it's something that 99.8 percent of users wouldn't notice. But for the other .2 percent, it became an issue and a number of them launched a cabal online to protest against it." Ubisoft has not answered our mails on the topic, but here is the forum post on the Far Cry 2 DRM:

Some DRM points that will hopefully answer some of your questions and will clarify some misunderstandings about our DRM and SecuROM:

- You have 5 activations on 3 separate PCs.

- Uninstalling the game “refunds” an activation. This process is called “revoke”, so as long as you complete proper uninstall you will be able to install the game an unlimited number of times on 3 systems.

- You can upgrade your computer as many time as you want (using our revoke system)

- Ubisoft is committed to the support of our games, and additional activations can be provided.

- Ubisoft is committed to the long term support of our games: you’ll always be able to play Far Cry 2.

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131 Replies. 7 pages. Viewing page 3.
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91. Re: ... Oct 15, 2008, 17:14 Wildone
 
Too many things wtf? You can't handle more than 4 buttons red yellow green & blue..??!?
Thats the problem with the console gen..they want it all dummed down to 4 buttons and a joypad..


"Crysis is a good example of a game that I believe has too many things happening at once to be easily mapped over to the console controls. I think that "suit menu" complicates things enough on the PC, it's quite a bit of work to manage all your stuff."
 
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90. No subject Oct 15, 2008, 17:08 Verno
 
You are so full of shit Verno it's not funny. Where do you get the idea that the publishers want to walk away from millions of dollars in revenue?

Revenue != profit

EA even stated that the PC was their most profitable platform, with financial results to back it up.

Somehow I think they were referring more to The Sims as opposed to stuff like Dead Space. Also, where did they say this?

Far Cry 2 was developed first for PC, with 360 and PS3 beginning farther along in development.

Yeah it was, I said exactly this last week and was shouted down by half the board, they labeled it a console port.

You don't have a problem with this form of DRM, we get it. But in the last week you've begun insulting those that do want to make a stand against it, and now you are starting to spread lies and bullshit that have no actual basis of fact.

Where am I spreading lies? Publishers have said that they do not want to release games with no protection on the PC - EA, Bethesda and so on have all said it. They want some form of protection in place, whether it's DRM or whatever. I can't see them releasing games without it, they have a duty to both shareholders and themselves to do so. How is that "lies, bullshit and insulting others"?

I think DRM is an issue but it's the only issue discussed on these boards at all these days. I don't think it's so large an issue to warrant that, especially since so much of what is said is anecdotal and circular. But hey, if you really think it's that bad that you need to repeat yourselves ad nauseum then go crazy, I'll just stop looking at the comments since there is no actual game discussion anywhere to be found on these boards. I think they get the point that people don't like DRM by now.
 
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89. Re: ... Oct 15, 2008, 17:08 MMORPGHoD
 
If it's all the same, get rid of auto-aim. Thx.
 
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88. No subject Oct 15, 2008, 17:05 Fausticle
 
Same games. Seriously. They're the same. Cod4? The same. Playing online with Mouse and keyboard is probably different than than using a controller but it's all relative. 360 players play against 360 players, pc vs pc.

Ya, but playing the console version is like competing in the special Olympics. As long as you drive a couple of nails into your frontal lobe everything is even Steven.
 
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87. Re: ... Oct 15, 2008, 16:59 Tumbler
 
It's just since console pads have received 2 analog sticks can they match the same movements as an FPS on PC.

I get the impression that people are not familiar with current console games. The same games you play on the PC, many of them, are on the consoles. They are almost identical games. The controls are a bit different but the fundamental gameplay is the same. The experiences are the same. Arguing one is better than the other is personal preference at best.

For me personally I'd rather rent a game for $5-$7 and have that experience than spend $50 and have it. That's just me. Some feel that spending $60 and playing it on their plasma is more fun than playing it on their PC screen for $50.

Same games. Seriously. They're the same. Cod4? The same. Playing online with Mouse and keyboard is probably different than than using a controller but it's all relative. 360 players play against 360 players, pc vs pc.

I'm of the opinion that the PC version of this game is not going to be anything that could not be equally experienced on the console. I could be dead wrong but most game today are designed to be enjoyable on consoles and this leaves many options and features that are only offered on the PC off the table for developers. 108 key keyboard + mouse will offer a lot more choices for people and developers than a gamepad.

Game can be equally good on both platforms but there are areas that developers choose not to explore only because it wouldn't work well on a gamepad.
 
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86. Re: Remember folks Oct 15, 2008, 16:49 wallace321
 
this only affects the pirates. People bitching about it prob weren't gonna buy it anyway. I have had to live with this system for another game 'Lock on:Flaming Cliffs' I have run out of activations many times and a simple email rectified the problem.

BZZZT!! Wrong. this does not only affect pirates - never was it mentioned during the discussions of DRM regarding Spore that the game needs an internet connection to play the game. Guess what, it does. I tried to play Spore for the first time on the flight Sunday afternoon. Nice relaxing flight, playing a nice relaxing game. http://brian321.dyndns.org/sporedrm.jpg awww, too bad for me.

Remember when people were so pissed about Mass Effect having to call back to reactivate every 2 weeks or something? But people revolted and they supposedly "backed off" for the Spore implementation of Securom? Guess, what? They didn't. And it's WORSE than originally advertised! You have to be online ANY TIME you want to play, not just once every two weeks to "reactivate". It "activates" everytime you launch the program.

I dont know how you can suggest this "only" affects pirates let alone EVER affecting them since the version you can get off of bit torrent doesn't even have Securom. Please explain. Seriously. Explain how DRM only affects pirates or shut your stupid, self-righteous mouth.

Edit: Sorry that was uncalled for, but that argument is so stupid as to be offensive to me as someone who actually pays for games. My pirate buddy had no problem playing HIS copy of spore on the plane and laughed when I told him this story. And people CONTINUE to say DRM only affects pirates. GRRRRRR!
This comment was edited on Oct 15, 2008, 17:31.
 
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85. Re: ... Oct 15, 2008, 16:44 Tumbler
 
It's just since console pads have received 2 analog sticks can they match the same movements as an FPS on PC.

...um yeah, that was kind of my point. Consoles have improved. There isn't something unique about the HL2 control set that makes it able to do things on the PC it can't do on the console.

Crysis is a good example of a game that I believe has too many things happening at once to be easily mapped over to the console controls. I think that "suit menu" complicates things enough on the PC, it's quite a bit of work to manage all your stuff.

RTS games show more clearly than most other games how a the PC controls can be used to control much more complex games with ease. Console controllers have a point where adding more options for the player becomes impossible, or confusing.
 
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84. Re: No subject Oct 15, 2008, 16:42 Fausticle
 
I stand corrected. There is a crack out I assume?

Ya, I with in a day I think. lol
 
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83. Re: ... Oct 15, 2008, 16:39 Jerykk
 
You're saying that the Orange Box played like a console game because it didn't take advantage of the PC's features?

I think he's arguing that the Orange Box wasn't really something that could only be done on the PC, like Tribes or Q3. Both those games received console ports but they completely failed to capture the experience of the PC originals.
 
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82. Re: ... Oct 15, 2008, 16:31 Ecthelion
 
HL2, Episode 1, Episode 2, and Portal are all games that would be considered console games by today's standards. Console games have advanced quite a bit in the past few years and you may not realize that the controls you use in those games are simple enough to be called console configs by today's standards. Playing through episode 2 didn't feel any different than playing HL2 and ep1 on my PC. The experience was the same.
So what? It followed the PC FPS standard, so the experience was similar? Why is that a bad thing?

You're saying that the Orange Box played like a console game because it didn't take advantage of the PC's features? In what way? The only thing I can think of is that it didn't use all the eye candy available at the time. I hope you're not making the argument that graphics equals gameplay.
 
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81. Re: No subject Oct 15, 2008, 16:31 nin
 

I stand corrected. There is a crack out I assume?

Yep.

edit: Actually, if you run the EE patch on the regular (last years) version, I'm told it removes it, I believe (someone jump in here if that's not the case).

In my case, I bought the new EE edition and used a crack...


This comment was edited on Oct 15, 2008, 16:32.
 
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80. Re: No subject Oct 15, 2008, 16:29 Prez
 
The Witcher used TAGES which has notoriously unstable drivers. That is FAR from a simple CD check.

I stand corrected. There is a crack out I assume?
 
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79. Re: ... Oct 15, 2008, 16:29 Krovven
 
HL2, Episode 1, Episode 2, and Portal are all games that would be considered console games by today's standards.

LOL yea ok. I've been using the same set of custom controls for FPS games on PC for the last 12 years, including the ones listed. I guess those controls were designed for consoles back then too?

It's just since console pads have received 2 analog sticks can they match the same movements as an FPS on PC.

----------------------------------------------------
LOST SALES DUE TO DRM- Mass Effect, Crysis Warhead, STALKER Clear Sky, Dead Space...Far Cry 2 next?

NoDRM group on Steam- http://steamcommunity.com/groups/nodrm/
 
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78. Re: ... Oct 15, 2008, 16:26 Jerykk
 
the aspects that people criticise (lack of inventory, less RPG elements) were design decisions, not console considerations.

Design decisions are greatly influenced by the platform you are designing for. Different platforms have different audiences with different expectations. Had Bioshock been designed as a PC exclusive, I think it would have turned out very differently. After all, a lot more PC gamers than console gamers have played System Shock.

I've said it before but Crysis was a PC exclusive game that had decisions people would typically associate with consoles (regenerating health, a clumsy suit mode selector, etc).

Yes... and gamers generally thought Crysis was mediocre at best. Far Cry was met with much better reception.

The sad truth is that in multiplatform development, 360 is almost always the lead SKU and everything else is an afterthought, with PC getting the shortest end of the stick.
 
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77. Re: ... Oct 15, 2008, 16:19 Tumbler
 
So The Orange Box is a port, hey? The reality is that the situation isn't black or white but a sliding scale.

HL2, Episode 1, Episode 2, and Portal are all games that would be considered console games by today's standards. Console games have advanced quite a bit in the past few years and you may not realize that the controls you use in those games are simple enough to be called console configs by today's standards. Playing through episode 2 didn't feel any different than playing HL2 and ep1 on my PC. The experience was the same.

The experience for TF2 was significantly different, for a variety of reasons, so I'd say that is a game that takes better advantage of the PC's features.

And Bioshock was absolutely designed with a console player in mind. Console games don't have to be bad games, many are exceptionally good. CoD4 is still one of my favorite games. Bioshock was friggin brilliant. But most games that are available on the PC and consoles are not better games on the PC. Most are the same game completely.

World in conflict is a good example of a PC game that I believe is designed for a console. The basic controls have you moving the camera with set of keys, while controlling the direction it's point with the other (mouse). It's a setup that would map EXTREMELY well on 2 analog sticks. I don't see this as a bad game, I see this as a good step towards making games completely cross platform so pc users can battle console users and have the same exprience. I decided against buying this game because the actual gameplay was not very complex. You had a limited selection of units and I felt a PC user could manage a lot more game, but they were trying to keep the game simple enough that a console user could play it just as effectively.

I guess what I'm saying is that it's extremely unusual for companies making cross platform games, pc/console, to really take advantage of the PC. I think people are happy to see these Big budget AAA titles available on the PC's but it's a step back in time. Eventually things will advance back to where we see current PC games but it's going to take some time.

Heck just playing Supreme Commander and CoH in the past few days have made me appreciate how much more you can do in a game on a PC. Most games don't bother building those features into their games because console players won't ever benefit from them.
 
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76. Re: ... Oct 15, 2008, 16:10 Overon
 
More DRM bullshit. People will solve the DRM problem by pirating.
 
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75. ... Oct 15, 2008, 16:07 theyarecomingforyou
 
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74. Re: No subject Oct 15, 2008, 16:00 Tumbler
 
I'm not defending DRM. What I'm saying piracy is so rampant in these markets, releasing a single player game there is pointless (financially speaking). In order to make any money developers think about how to wrap the game around a payment system then they create the game.

Here they still make the single player game and then staple some kind of protection onto it at the end. DRM is only really present when there is no client/server model present(WoW and Guild Wars)to force some kind of authentication.

Companies need to adapt. You can't just drop a singleplayer game that has all it's entertainment value on the client side and expect it to not get pirated. If you don't want people to pirate your game, you need to offer services that only legit users can activate via online. I'd even accept an online activation for software but that really doesn't do shit to stop people from using the game via piracy. It only secures the legit copies from being used in ways you don't want.

That whole approach is going to blow up in your face. I believe the reason piracy has become so visible is because most software that is sold today is not worth the asking price. Some games are but many simply have the default sticker price of $59.99 on them and companies know that the less they spend internally to make the game the more of that $60 they get on the back end so it's encouraging them to slack. This is easily visible for consumers and it's clear how they feel about it. (rising numbers for piracy)

Cracking down on your paying customers is not going to help anything, these are the guys that continue to pay the stupid prices placed on products. What you need to do is build more value into your games.

You need to have free additional content that is only available to paying customers. Maybe a variety of different weapon styles or cosmetic things that will make people who pirated the game look at these things and say...hmm I'd like that. Make this additional content accessible by registering the game online in some way. This may require a company to invest in a online support side of the business and it will definitely have an additional cost on the game, but that's life.

Patches and Updates to games are free additional content, btw. Stop giving that stuff out for free, buy some servers to host your updates, and build protections into the patches so they also link up to your server.

Lock up the additional content, that is what star dock does.

This may also require you to redesign the game you ship, you may omit portions of the game in the retail release so that you can add them to the game for people who register. Done with some reasonable people at the helm you could plan to have 12 campaign missions in your game and maybe an alternate ending or something for a 13th mission waiting after release.


 
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73. Re: Upgrade vs. new computer Oct 15, 2008, 15:58 MrTA
 
Well Chewbacca was born on Kashyyyk (spelling) and was only temporary on Endor for the battle there. Later in the spin off series he actually dies trying to save refugess from the Yzan Vong (spelling). So sadly Ubisoft does not have to stop using DRM if that is youor argument.

/End Star wars nerdiners
 
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72. ... Oct 15, 2008, 15:53 theyarecomingforyou
 
Im just hoping that GTA IV doesnt go the same way!
Of course it will. It's by 2K Games, the company that pioneered DRM activations with Bioshock. The only saving grace is that they are the only company to have also removed them (after a year had passed).
 
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131 Replies. 7 pages. Viewing page 3.
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