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$6M WoW Glider Judgment

Blizzard wins Warcraft bot payout reports $6 million is the damages award MDY Industries must pay Blizzard after losing a US court case over the World of Warcraft "Glider" software (story). Word is: "The damages award could be delayed if Blizzard appeals against the judgement which threw out its claim to double or triple the cash settlement." Word is the case will return to court in January 2009 to settle "remaining issues" in the legal conflict over the software that automates functions in the MMORPG. Thanks Mike Martinez.

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42 Replies. 3 pages. Viewing page 1.
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42. No subject Oct 1, 2008, 20:35 Verno
 
I'd say it's a 50/50 split Prez. About 50% of the bot users are probably legit players who are sick of regrinding new characters and such. Blizzard has given some token efforts at improving the leveling grind but ultimately they can't change the underlying stick->carrot->repeat gameplay formula which constantly "rewards" the player to gratify them. If they go too far then it devalues the whole feeling of accomplishment. So people get tired of leveling just try to out a new experience and get a bot to do it for them.

To be fair to the players that do it, I will say that when you have 3+ toons and have already experienced the breadth of the content then I don't see who it harms if you pop off to Ungoro Crater to farm some dinosaurs with a bot. Blizzard realizes that if people were able to do this with free reign then other players would feel like their own experience is cheated by others doing it.

The other half of the coin is the companies who have built an economy around selling/buying/farming gold, characters and so on. There's a shitload of money in it plain and simple. They make money using the bot and do no work. It's actually a pretty sweet job if you think about it, especially if you're just some college kid making minimum wage.

Anyways I agree with you, I don't see why Blizzard is afforded money here but I assume the justification is something like "they did harm to our property by allowing others to circumvent game features" or "harming the virtual economy" is another popular one.

This comment was edited on Oct 1, 20:36.
 
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41. Re: No subject Oct 1, 2008, 20:16 Prez
 
I find it strange that Blizzard is owed "damages" for something that did no monetary harm to them. If the settlement is more a representation of the monies MDY collected, I would think it would be more fair that those monies be returned to the people who spent them, and immediatley after those same people be banned for violating Blizzard's EULA for WoW.

The bigger issue, I think, is what it says about gaming and/or gamers when so many people pay 15 bucks a month and then pay another company to play the game for them. To what end? Do the people who do this even know, or are they blindly following the inexplicable compulsion to do something so devoid of logic?
 
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“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
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40. No subject Oct 1, 2008, 19:42 Verno
 
Yep, back when I played people used WoWSharp(the big bot before Glider came along) to level up accounts to 60 in 3 days then popped them on various forums and auction sites for $100-200. I knew a guy who put himself through college doing this and selling "isk" or whatever its called in Eve-Online. It's big money when you consider you do nothing to earn it.

This comment was edited on Oct 1, 19:42.
 
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39. No subject Oct 1, 2008, 19:40 Throwaway
 
Alt account here, just in case Blizz is lurking on this thread and I don't want to get my account banned. After leveling up 4 70's since release, I really dreaded the grind again. Been there, done that, over and over.

I dabbled with Glider because of that and it's actually quite neat. I had a good time just watching it play itself. Set a path, set your options and watch it go. I used it about a month before getting nervous about my account and stopped using it. Never got caught or even looked at funny.

My friend however, who I had been playing with since release got both his account and his sons account banned. A total of 4 years and 6 lvl 70's gone. He didn't use it to farm gold or anything. Just to help with the grind we are so familiar with. He was kind of upset that I didn't get touched. He stopped gliding a long time ago though and has another 2 70's lvl'd again.

Farmers excluded, most people use glider to level up accounts and sell them. Their forums are chock full of people who do this. I'm surprised they haven't gone after Innerspace and ISXWOW yet.

 
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38. No subject Oct 1, 2008, 19:29 Verno
 
In the end it doesn't matter I guess, the glider software will be cracked (if not already) or otherwise re-released unofficially in one form or another, and it won't go away. This is just Blizzard's legal way of saying "hell no!", and while I admire their voracious approach to ensuring an enjoyable and unexploited gaming environment, they must realise it's practically impossible to remove client automation.

As a programmer, what are your thoughts on the legal ramifications of this lawsuit? Glider basically just emulates what a player is doing via an injection mechanism, it doesn't actually modify any in-game data or anything. From a gamer standpoint I don't like cheaters/hackers but from a legal standpoint this seems a bit iffy to me. There are many programs that do this and heck, could it apply to things like web scraping?

I love how its the fault of Blizzard and not the people who voluntarily play the game and who can voluntarily quit whenever they want. I played WoW a ton and one day, just quit it. It can be done.

I don't disagree with that, I quit WoW as well without any issues but I've also seen friends completely obliterate their social lives for MMO games. These companies hire people with psychology degrees, it's not a stretch of the imagination to see them going one step further and consulting an actual psychologist. There's nothing "wrong" with it legally but its a shitty way to do business in my opinion, preying on those with low self esteem or willpower. But you're right, no one holds a gun to your head and forces you to play WoW, I can't argue with that.


This comment was edited on Oct 1, 19:36.
 
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37. Hmm Oct 1, 2008, 19:02 Zzet
 
I have trouble siding with either opinion on this - on the one side I encourage any and all ways to advance interaction (and non-interaction) with software since I'm a programmer myself. On the other hand I've played the game from retail release with my other half, and we both saw the effects of mass botting on the realm we play on. Irritating at best, frustrating at worst.

In the end it doesn't matter I guess, the glider software will be cracked (if not already) or otherwise re-released unofficially in one form or another, and it won't go away. This is just Blizzard's legal way of saying "hell no!", and while I admire their voracious approach to ensuring an enjoyable and unexploited gaming environment, they must realise it's practically impossible to remove client automation.

 
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36. No subject Oct 1, 2008, 18:52 HellSlayer
 
Awesome news for gaming! People think they can do whatever they want with other people's hard work. Win one for the good guys! We can complain about not having good games to play until we are blue in the face!It will not help gaming one bit! The people you guys rag on are the very ones that bring games to our table. I say if you do not like it, do something about it.Go to school, learn to program, become the next Carmack or something! Amen, preach it!:)

If you would die tomorrow...what then? John 3:16
God gave man dominion--the pains you see are because of our decisions--not His!
 
o0
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35. Re: No subject Oct 1, 2008, 18:52 Asmodai
 
Parallax Abstraction said:
I love how its the fault of Blizzard and not the people who voluntarily play the game and who can voluntarily quit whenever they want. I played WoW a ton and one day, just quit it. It can be done.

Exactly...

 
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34. Re: No subject Oct 1, 2008, 18:47 Asmodai
 
No you. Blizzard hired a psychologist to help them design aspects of the game to be as addictive as possible. So you can take your own advice on the "STFU" sir. I like Blizzard games as much as the next guy but WoW can blow me.

Lol, they didn't even need to, Diablo 1 & 2, Ever"Crack" etc were all addictive and people played them well beyond the point where the newness had worn away.

So are poker/slot machines. Cigarettes. Hell, sugar is addictive. Any MMO is based on timesinking and repetitive behaviour. And people make a choice of their own free will to use them. If they are such gormless peons that they have no self will to put down a game when it's no longer fun, I think Blizz deserves every dime it gets from them...

As for this nanny state bullshit, how about we just people make up their own fucking minds? You don't like it, fine, fuck off and save a tree or something...

vs Glider? Great for Blizz (not like they need it but meh). Botting toons, BG AFK'ers etc can all go chug dick and die. Since most of them are powerleveling toons to sell on (against the TOS which they accept when they sign up to the game) they don't really have a leg to stand on and I have zero sympathy for them.

Plus if you've ever actually read the glider forums, you'll get a laugh a minute from the rubes complaining how unfair it is that their account got banned... Hilarious to think how much extra money they have tossed in Blizzard's pockets...

 
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33. Re: No subject Oct 1, 2008, 18:39 Talisorn
 
Fact is that MDY knew what he was doing was dodgy and tried to get around it by exploiting a perceived loophole. Play with fire. Expect to be burnt.

 
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32. Re: No subject Oct 1, 2008, 14:45 NKD
 
Hah, I never thought leveling was more fun in EQ regardless of the number of locations available.

Well, it's harder, but when you decided to play something else you didn't have the additional challenge of having to try and stomach the same zones again.

 
Avatar 43041
 
If you don't like where gaming is heading, stop giving your money to the people who are taking it in that direction.
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31. Re: What a surprise Oct 1, 2008, 14:42 Cutter
 
Look at that financial bailout. They are giving money to the corporations that caused the problems, instead of giving money to you and me, the taxpayer whose money it is, to save our homes. They could set up a 700 million fund to lend directly to you and me so we don't get evicted, but they are giving the 700 million to Wall street instead so they don't get evicted.

Gasp! Socialism!

That's funny. Just a few weeks ago the Repubes were all crying about how a bailout for irresponsible homeowners is tanatmount to socialism! However, when it's their fat cat pals corps getting the free swag for being greedy, irresponsible assholes as usual than it's good for America.

With the hundreds of billions the repubes have looted with the ensuing pandemonium of post 9/11, everyone in America should own their own house and have free health care and post-seconday education to boot.
 
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"The South will boogie again!" - Disco Stu
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30. Re: No subject Oct 1, 2008, 14:42 MMORPGHoD
 
Some people are actually not playing WoW to have fun, but are playing to make a buck. Bots make gold farming easy.

Hah, I never thought leveling was more fun in EQ regardless of the number of locations available. If anything I thought it was more tedious level grinding. After all, EQ and EQ2 were supposed to be the hard core MMORPGs and WoW was the easy one.

This comment was edited on Oct 1, 14:43.
 
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29. Re: No subject Oct 1, 2008, 14:38 NKD
 
Blizzard hiring shrinks?

I think it would be pretty fucking sad if Blizzard needed shrinks to make WoW addictive. The MMO model is pretty addictive all on its own. Repeating the same content dozens if not hundreds of times, sometimes getting a reward, most of the time not, but always with that carrot in front of you. Far different story than other genres, thats for sure. I've definitely heard nothing of them hiring shrinks, though.
This comment was edited on Oct 1, 14:39.
 
Avatar 43041
 
If you don't like where gaming is heading, stop giving your money to the people who are taking it in that direction.
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28. Re: No subject Oct 1, 2008, 14:33 Mashiki Amiketo
 
Links to what? Wow blowing him or Blizzard hiring shrinks?

Where the fuck did all these nut jobs come from lately?
Can we get pictures of both? I want to see the nuts and their delusions posted online.

Really Elf, I'm guessing some of them got run off of other sites.
 
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"For every human problem,
there is a neat, simple solution;
and it is always wrong."
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27. Re: No subject Oct 1, 2008, 14:30 NKD
 
It's called wanting to be on top but not having to work for it.

I have to agree with Zarkov. These bots don't do anything to put you on top. If you wanted to make a MLB analogy, the accurate one would be that the bot brings you from tee-ball to baseball, but nowhere near the Major League. Gets you in the game, thats about it.

The work involved in actually getting ahead in WoW all happens after the levelling is over. A bot can't raid for you, a bot can't PvP for you, a bot can't even help you be AS GOOD as an actual player, let alone better.

The fact that the entirety of WoW's meaningful content is at max level is why people want a shortcut. They don't want to do the same god damn quests for the 8th time. In other games, like EQ1 or EQ2, there is so much low to mid level content that there aren't even enough players to populate it. You have a great deal of variety that you can use to make levelling new characters more fun.

In WoW they have taken the opposite route. Keeping areas populated by never replacing them or giving people an alternative. They've added no new mid-level zones since launch, and only two new low level areas. In a day, 2 max, you can level out of those zones so it doesn't spread the population out.

It isn't about wanting to be the best and not have to work for it. Bots cannot do that for you no matter how good they are. It's about not wanting to do the same exact thing for the 100th time.

 
Avatar 43041
 
If you don't like where gaming is heading, stop giving your money to the people who are taking it in that direction.
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26. Re: No subject Oct 1, 2008, 14:22 Zarkov
 
You're serious? This is a big fucking mystery to you? If so, I guess athletes taking steroids and corking their bats must put you in bed for a week. It's called wanting to be on top but not having to work for it.

Next you'll be telling us Major League Baseball drugs its players so they'll be addicted to the game, thereby forcing them to 'roid up.

Right, except bots wont put you "on top" in WoW, or even in that vicinity.

How many major league baseball players do you think are playing for fun? As in, they would continue to play like they do, even if they had to pay to do it instead of getting a salary?

Computer games, on the other hands, are meant for entertainment (for the people participating). So if people are prepared to pay to get rid of "work", then maybe you have a serious design flaw somewhere?

 
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25. Just to clarify Oct 1, 2008, 14:21 Nighthawk
 
My issue with glider isn't the players that use it to bot up to lv60/70 or wherever they want to be at, avoiding the level grind, my issue is that (and MDY HAS to realize this) the gold spammers, powerlevel spammers they are (partially) responsible for account theft (to shard items and sell the gold), in game spam, and possibly email spam (anyone validate?) use glider for their own means, and taking the enjoyment out of the game for normal players.

 
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24. Re: No subject Oct 1, 2008, 14:20 The Half Elf
 
Links to what? Wow blowing him or Blizzard hiring shrinks?

Where the fuck did all these nut jobs come from lately?

 
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"I've never seen a feature like this before. It warms your ass. It's wonderful" -Walter Bishop
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23. Re: No subject Oct 1, 2008, 13:59 danebramage
 
Instead of attempting to become a manifestation of pure greed, perhaps Blizzard should ask themselves why people are prepared to pay money to have a program play their game for them?

You're serious? This is a big fucking mystery to you? If so, I guess athletes taking steroids and corking their bats must put you in bed for a week. It's called wanting to be on top but not having to work for it.

Next you'll be telling us Major League Baseball drugs its players so they'll be addicted to the game, thereby forcing them to 'roid up.

 
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42 Replies. 3 pages. Viewing page 1.
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