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Out of the Blue

Happy equinox, as today is the first day of autumn or spring, depending on your locale. Autumn it is here, though last couple of weeks of summer have been pretty chilly around here. Anyway, hopefully we'll all get lots of good presents. No wait…

Autumnal Link: Thanks Ant and Mike Martinez.
Play: Microbe Kombat. Thanks Jay is Games.
Links: RC Car Controlled Via the Web.
Story: Paws for thought- Pet dog fitted with £10,000 bionic leg.
Science: House Stands Alone After Hurricane Ike. Thanks Digg.
Media: Greatest Slam Dunk Ever.
Mr. Tisane Battles his Tea Addiction.

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25. Re: PC Building Help Sep 23, 2008, 23:41 Creston
 
What if I said i wasn't immediately interested in OC'ing?

It's really simple to do with a Dual/Quad core processor, so you really limit yourself needlessly if you don't do it, but if you really don't want to, an E8400 will run faster than a Q6600. The Q6600 runs at a default of 2.2Ghz which isn't bad but it's not exactly screamingly fast either.

Taking ten seconds to up some BIOS settings so you get an extra Ghz of speed for basically no cost (I think it'll use half a dollar's worth of power extra a month or so) seems like a good deal to me.

If you're worried about messing something up, let us know, I'll be happy to write a little step by step walkthrough for your particular motherboard (as I have the exact same one.)

Creston

 
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24. Re: PC Building Help Sep 23, 2008, 09:02 Enahs
 
What if I said i wasn't immediately interested in OC'ing?


Then again you immediately get ~15% more performance.

Another point of overclocking is that also later on you can overclock getting more performance, possibly even the same amount of performance increase as the quad cores are used more.
Who knows.

Really, I am not saying the E8400 is a better decision overall. Just throwing out other options on your plate for you to decide. More performance right now in games, or the possibility for more performance later.

Either way, it will be one bad-ass system.

And remember, no matter which one you buy. If you buy the OEM for a few bucks cheaper, you still have to buy a heat-sink and fan.








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23. Re: PC Building Help Sep 23, 2008, 02:01 PHJF
 
E8400 can be run at 3.6 with stock cooler provided your case has adequate cooling, and it shouldn't need more than 1.36v  
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22. Re: PC Building Help Sep 22, 2008, 23:34 ColoradoHoudini
 
What if I said i wasn't immediately interested in OC'ing?

-don't hit me.

 
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21. Re: PC Building Help Sep 22, 2008, 21:04 Efflixi
 
Get the XigmaTek 1283. It's the same Heatsink (made by the same OEM) and it comes with a fan, for $36 from newegg. My quad core Q9650 sits at 41C at 3GHz with it.

 
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20. Re: PC Building Help Sep 22, 2008, 20:55 PHJF
 
E8400 definitely for clock-for-clock. You can pump those suckers to around 4.2GHz air, whereas the Q6600 isn't likely to break 3.6.

A reasonably-sized case won't have any trouble with current aftermarket coolers, of which I'm fairly sure the TRUE is still king.

http://www.directron.com/u120e.html

Bear in mind it doesn't come with a fan, though.


This comment was edited on Sep 22, 20:58.
 
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19. Re: PC Building Help Sep 22, 2008, 20:27 Enahs
 
Enahs - all things being equal, why not get the Q6600 over the E8400.. especially if OC'ing is not an immediate issue.

..
So why not get a Quad Core instead of a Dual Core? But that's just my opinion. Enahs is being contrary

No. As I originally said the Quad Core has more potential for lasting longer once better usage of multiple CPU's increase.


A reason to go with the E8400 over the Q6600 (which I did) is you get more immediate performance out of the box (15%) for gaming, NOT for media creation.

I have it overclocked with stock everything from 3.0 -> 3.8 GHZ. It has never once gotten hotter then 35 C in my case. The warning temps are 65C. I did it really quick and forgot about it. I have no doubt I could overclock further.

So right now for the same price I am getting ~25% more performance in gaming. Using less power.


But again like I said, the Q6600 is likely to last longer.

And the other reason I went with it was that NewEgg had a bundle deal on the motherboard I wanted, and so I saved $35 as well. This mother board:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813131299
Deal is still going. Plus a mail in rebate I might see.
But I wanted that MB.






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This comment was edited on Sep 22, 21:01.
 
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18. Re: PC Building Help Sep 22, 2008, 20:25 ColoradoHoudini
 
thanks fellas, I appreciate the answers.

I only went with the huge PSU because I thought I might need something that beefy.
I can go lower, no matter to me.

Thanks again.

 
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17. Re: PC Building Help Sep 22, 2008, 20:07 Efflixi
 
For the record, Creston above this reply (and below my original post, which i edited while he was posting his) offers some very good advice.

 
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16. Re: PC Building Help Sep 22, 2008, 19:59 PHJF
 
LotRO was just $7 on GoGamer, so it has now become the official first MMO I've bitten the bullet on. I beta'd it for a while and really enjoyed it, but have until now been unable to topple my inner barrier preventing me from subscription gaming. $7 for a month doesn't seem too bad for a boxed version + first month, however.  
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15. Re: PC Building Help Sep 22, 2008, 19:52 Creston
 
Was really considering getting an Alienware rig

Cutter,

Alienware is VERY VERY overpriced. If you can build a rig yourself, you can literally build the same rig for 500-1000 bucks cheaper just by buying it off newegg.com

WisHoudini,

is upgrading going to be worth it?

Absolutely. However, spend an extra 50 bucks on a Zalman CNPS9500 fan for your Q6600. (and 7 bucks for a tube of Artic Silver) The retail fan works okay, but it's not the top of the world. Put that Zalman on there, and you can EASILY overclock that Q6600 to 3.2 Ghz. (some people get it as far as 3.6 on air, but that's pushing it a bit far imo, as your core temps will get to around 80 degrees C.)

I've got mine at 3.0 Ghz so my core temps stay < 60 degrees. (that's with all 4 cores running at 100% with Orthos for an hour or so. During normal gaming they never get that hot.) At 3.2 they get to about 66 degrees. Everything already runs screamingly fast on 3Ghz, so I didn't really need the extra 0.2 Ghz.

Warhammer is running like a slideshow in large PvP sieges.

As long as that's not your internet connection's fault, that problem should definitely go away.

Is Vista Ultimate 32bit going to be the OS I want in the Vista family?

Not really, but if it's free, meh. It comes with a load of bloatware crap that you'll likely never use. Home should be fine.

Maybe just more RAM and a new video card would be enough?

Your CPU is getting pretty limited. I'd definitely upgrade that. Your rig will only run as fast as your slowest component.

Do I really need Quad Core? Or would a newer Core 2 Duo be better for me?

No. There is no reason for anyone anywhere to buy any processor other than the Q6600. A "newer" Core 2 Duo just defaults to a higher speed on default. Why spend money on that when the Q6600 can go up to those speeds without any problems? I see people that buy a Q99million EXTREME GAMUR EDISJUN! processor for 800 bucks, and it runs at 3.4 Ghz. Woot. My 220 dollar processor runs that too. (if I wanted it to) So that's 600 bucks well spent?

And sure, nothing today REALLY uses a quad core (though SupCom and Crysis apparently use your 3rd core a bit), but what about 3 years from now? The cool thing about upgrading now is that you can reasonably futureproof your machine for awhile, because of certain limitations we've hit with hardware :

- CPUs no longer go up just in Mhz. Instead they're expanding to multi-cores, and apps and games are doing so as well. So a quad core is far more future proof than a dual core.
- Unless everyone embraces 64bit (heh), no game is ever going to require more than 3GB of RAM. And 4 Gigs right now is about 100 bucks.
- harddisk space is ridiculously cheap.

So the only thing you'll upgrade in the future is your graphics card.

So why not get a Quad Core instead of a Dual Core? But that's just my opinion. Enahs is being contrary

for the same budget above, could someone suggest a better machine?

It's pretty solid, though I wouldn't spend money on a 730W PSU. 500-550 Watts is all you'll need, just make sure it's got 2 12 volt rails, and both can handle around 18 amps. You won't need the extra wattage. (Unless you start going RAID5 and triple SLI - which you can't because your mobo doesn't support it.)
Make sure you get a good brand. Check newegg.com for customer reviews. PSUs with 5 star reviews are great buys for gamers.

It's about the same as the machine that I built (I have an 8800GT instead of a 4850), and it plays Crysis Warhead on Enthusiast level perfectly fine at 1680x1050.

Creston

This comment was edited on Sep 22, 20:00.
 
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14. Re: PC Building Help Sep 22, 2008, 19:50 Efflixi
 
I've been building computers for close to 15 years now and it seems that most people overlook one of the most crucial parts to building a computer; the power supply. Don't skimp out on that thing! Get a Corsair or a PC Power & Cooling. You don't really need a 730w PSU for that computer, i'm running a beefier system on a Corsair 620HX which is the PSU i would suggest.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817139002

Again, please don't skimp on one of the most critical parts of your system. A cheap/bad PSU can lead to entire system failure. The rest of your system looks fine though.


If i had ~$800 to spend on a new system, here's my top picks:

CORSAIR CMPSU-620HX 620W Power Supply
-$45.00 Instant
$144.99

Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 2.4GHz LGA 775 Quad-Core Processor
$189.99

Seagate 640GB 3.5" SATA 3.0Gb/s Hard Drive
$79.99

G.SKILL 4GB(2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR2 800 (PC2 6400) Dual Channel Kit Memory
-$40.00 Instant
$66.99

ASUS P5K PRO ATX Intel Motherboard
$102.99

LITE-ON 20X DVD±R DVD Burner Black IDE Model DH-20A4P-04
$22.99

ASUS Radeon HD 4850 EAH4850/HTDI/512M Video Card
-$15.00 Instant
-$49.99 Combo
$169.99

Grand Total: $777.93

The combo deal on the graphics card is because it comes with a free copy of Alone in the Dark

All of those items and prices are from www.newegg.com and right now, every single one of those items is *FREE 3 DAY SHIPPING* saving you a ton of money.
This comment was edited on Sep 22, 20:03.
 
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13. Re: PC Building Help Sep 22, 2008, 17:25 Cabezone
 
Use the OEM 64 you've got. The retail doens't support both in one OS, it just includes the license for each individually.
I also recommend the dual core, unless you play a lot of RTS game and/or a bunch of media creation.

This comment was edited on Sep 22, 17:27.
 
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12. Re: PC Building Help Sep 22, 2008, 16:49 ColoradoHoudini
 
I have a Microsoft Action Pack in front of me.. with an unused copy of Windows Vista Ultimate 64.
The CD reads "the disc contains 64-bit software only"

I suppose that will work just fine? Or do I need an off the shelf version version of Ultimate that (as much as I'm reading).. has 64 and 32 bit support in one OS?

 
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11. Re: PC Building Help Sep 22, 2008, 16:07 kanniballl
 
I thought there was an issue with 32/64 bit versions of Vista and programs/games?

FYI, if you buy a Retail copy of Vista I believe you get both Vista 32 and Vista 64, while the OEM copy of Vista is limited to either-or (must decide upon purchase which one you want).

I think I recall hearing the licensing on Retail is also a bit more lenient when dealing with re-installs or whatever.
 
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10. Re: PC Building Help Sep 22, 2008, 16:04 ColoradoHoudini
 
If I go with the 64 bit version of Vista (which i easily could), will I be able to use all the programs I want? I thought there was an issue with 32/64 bit versions of Vista and programs/games?

I don't plan to overclock-at least for a long while..

Enahs - all things being equal, why not get the Q6600 over the E8400.. especially if OC'ing is not an immediate issue.

 
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9. Re: PC Building Help Sep 22, 2008, 16:00 kanniballl
 
Do I really need Quad Core? Or would a newer Core 2 Duo be better for me?

If you're just looking at gaming, I personally don't think the Quad will be worth it from price/heat vs performance. Game shops are probably just getting used to developing the game to work well on 2-core let alone making them scale for arbitrarily increasing x-core.

If you do other things like heavy Development work, particularly if you're running local instances of databases or web application servers, then a Quad would probably be a nice tool. And maybe if you play the game in windowed-mode and have other things running in the background you need.

As for the OS, I forget does Vista 32 support more than 3GB? I agree with other poster, I've heard that Vista 64 is more stable than Vista 32 though my experience with either is rather limited.

Everything else looks alright. Then again I'm not "up" on the latest bleeding edge benchmarks and such. I'm also at least a year from considering another upgrade so I probably won't be paying the best attention until around then.

This comment was edited on Sep 22, 16:05.
 
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8. Re: PC Building Help Sep 22, 2008, 15:42 Enahs
 
The Core 2 Duo E8400 comes in at the same price as the Q6600. I just got an E8400 and it is great.

Right now, for games, the E8400 will give better performance. The Q6600 is likely to give better performance for media creation though.

The Q6600 has more room to grow though, because as programmers take better advantage of multiprocessings, it has more room for growth.

The E8400 however, is really stable and easy to overclock. I have it running at 3.8GHZ with the stock retail Intel fan and a really nice case that cools really well (default is 3GHZ). And that is not pushing it by any means. I did stress tests and it is only running ~4-5 C hotter.

The Q6600 uses more power and runs hoter, so the fan will be louder.



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7. Re: PC Building Help Sep 22, 2008, 15:12 nin
 
Is Vista Ultimate 32bit going to be the OS I want in the Vista family?
(free by the way, so if OS cost if a concern, throw that out)

People seem to have a lot more success with the 64 bit version.



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6. PC Building Help Sep 22, 2008, 15:07 ColoradoHoudini
 
Hey fellas.. I'm looking to build a new PC.. and want to know what you guys think of this.
I'm trying to stay under 800 bucks.. what follows below gets me in at $757.00

I'll be using the new machine for Warhammer/TF2/whatever other big games come along (any genre)
I am going to go with Vista Ultimate (yes, i know...i can go back to XP if i hate Vista)

I am upgrading from:
Pentium D 930
Radeon x1800xt -256 meg
2 gigs ram

Running XP Pro
This machine will be regulated to a backup machine/file server once a new machine gets built.

Looking at getting:
Radeon HD 4850 512MB
Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600
4 gigs RAM - Kingston Hyper X DDR 2 1066
Lite On 20x burner
640 gig WD hard drive
730w Raidmax PSU
GIGABYTE GA-EP35-DS3L LGA 775 Intel P35
=$757.00


So first question.. is upgrading going to be worth it? Am I going to see a huge performance increase? Right now, Warhammer is running like a slideshow in large PvP sieges.
Is Vista Ultimate 32bit going to be the OS I want in the Vista family?
(free by the way, so if OS cost if a concern, throw that out)

I do want to multitask, like burn dvd's/convert video files while playing games/watching movies.. so I'd tax my machine a little bit.. but right now, I cannot burn while gaming.

At any given time, the large programs on my machine open are-
Warhammer (or some other game)
Newsgroups reader .. and it's downloading
firefox -multiple tabs
Of course, my anti virus/spyware/spam programs

Maybe just more RAM and a new video card would be enough?
My current mobo will supprt DDR2 800 and the above video card
Do I really need Quad Core? Or would a newer Core 2 Duo be better for me?

Of course.. for the same budget above, could someone suggest a better machine?

 
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