34 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
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| 34. |
A glimmer of hope |
Aug 2, 2008, 06:00 |
Nighthawk |
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This could actually end up being a blessing in disguise if it gets released open source. Blizz gets the code and knows how it operates, modifies the game to look for that, and boots the client, 3 strikes and you're banned, problem solved.
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| 33. |
No subject |
Aug 1, 2008, 22:34 |
WyldKat |
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This is akin to Microsoft ordering VMware to stop making virtualization software.
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| 32. |
No subject |
Aug 1, 2008, 22:34 |
WyldKat |
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This is akin to Microsoft ordering VMware to stop making virtualization software.
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| 31. |
Re: No subject |
Aug 1, 2008, 22:09 |
Asmodai |
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Overly broad court decisions that create giant loopholes any company can use to circumvent the limitations of copyright are not a good way to protect your game. Chicken/egg argument. One could argue that if players hadn't decided to cheat and glider facilitated it, there would be no need to set a legal precedent. It's hardly compelling to say "It's a grindfest that's why I needed a bot to do it for me", all MMO's are grindfests of one type or another.
That is what banning problem users is for. All this type of decision does is harm people who don't even play that crappy game. Glider is designed to load in to memory and edit the wow clients communications as they pass through RAM. This is specifically designed to avoid the warden software in the wow client which checks to see if the wow client files have been modified.
What then happens is Blizz relies on user reports to ban bot players rather than warden (although I'm sure they'll evnetually refine their security software to the point where it can sniff the process in ram).
Again, chicken/egg, they didn't need all this extra crap (warden etc) until cheaters started using bots/exploits. The playerbase cries out for blizzard to deal with botters etc, blizzard enacts more rigorous defenses which apparently include trying to interfere with open source'ing a piece of software.
I guess it's that whole concept of progression, it's so easy in the games and it's much more difficult in real life. It's easy to see why people are attracted to it now that I think about it. The whole concept of MMO's is the same as slot machines, do something repetitive, get rewarded occasionally (loot), rinse repeat. They've proven that rats do the same thing when presented with a button that if pressed will occasionally drop food (ie. they'll spam the button continually even if they aren't hungry).
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| 30. |
No subject |
Aug 1, 2008, 22:04 |
Wallshadows |
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For example Alterac Valley battlegrounds is FULL of them. Either bots or idiots. I'd sooner say idiots though.
This comment was edited on Aug 1, 22:04. |
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| 29. |
WOW bots are destroying gameplay |
Aug 1, 2008, 21:35 |
Kxmode |
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| 28. |
Re: No subject |
Aug 1, 2008, 20:56 |
Verno |
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You know, I never thought about it that way and you're right that is pretty amusing. I guess it's that whole concept of progression, it's so easy in the games and it's much more difficult in real life. It's easy to see why people are attracted to it now that I think about it.
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Playing: Path of Exile, Animal Crossing, Tales of Graces F Watching: Survivorman, Justified, Silent Running |
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| 27. |
No subject |
Aug 1, 2008, 20:32 |
swaaye |
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I find it entertaining that most MMOs are so repetitive that they can be thoroughly automated and yet so many people are entertained for thousands of hours by them.
I know; I'm missing the point. Oh well! This comment was edited on Aug 1, 20:33. |
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| 26. |
Re: Hmmm... |
Aug 1, 2008, 19:32 |
sponge |
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I read the article in it's entirety previously and I don't agree with the judge's decision. I do however stand corrected on some of the details, thank you. Yea, I can see the reasoning behind considering it copyright infringement, but I don't agree with the reasons themselves. I wish there was a better way to pursue cheating apps, but I think there's not many alternatives.
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| 25. |
Re: Hmmm... |
Aug 1, 2008, 19:09 |
Verno |
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ToS != EULA. An EULA has not been tested in court. Terms of Services have been tested ever since the phone companies have existed. All those broadband companies who cap bandwidth or limit how much you can download? Those are in the Terms of Service. You're right, I was using the wrong terminology.
No. The Glider application was judged to constitute copyright infringement. Distributing an application which has no purpose besides to commit copyright infringement, and generating funds off of it is illegal. This has nothing to do with your property. Blizzard is not suing people who run Glider, nor are they saying what you can't do and do with your computer.
http://news.mmosite.com/content/2008-07-15/20080715231135963.shtml I read the article in it's entirety previously and I don't agree with the judge's decision. I do however stand corrected on some of the details, thank you.
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Playing: Path of Exile, Animal Crossing, Tales of Graces F Watching: Survivorman, Justified, Silent Running |
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| 24. |
Re: Hmmm... |
Aug 1, 2008, 18:58 |
NKD |
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I for one applaud Blizzard's efforts. They are protecting their game and their IP. So you care about WoW more than your rights as a consumer? Overly broad court decisions that create giant loopholes any company can use to circumvent the limitations of copyright are not a good way to protect your game.
That is what banning problem users is for. All this type of decision does is harm people who don't even play that crappy game.
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| If you don't like where gaming is heading, stop giving your money to the people who are taking it in that direction. |
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| 23. |
Re: Hmmm... |
Aug 1, 2008, 18:55 |
Talisorn |
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If Blizzard don't do something to stop botting then they are going to lose customers. People will see inaction as a defacto surrender to people who want an unfair advantage over those people who want to play the game as intended.
So either WoW effectually dies, becoming a haven for botters in the same way AC died, or they defend their game. I for one applaud Blizzard's efforts. They are protecting their game and their IP.
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| 22. |
Re: Hmmm... |
Aug 1, 2008, 18:51 |
sponge |
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While this product is sleazy, it has nothing to do with copyright whatsoever. The court has basically ruled that if you do anything against terms of service, whether its otherwise legal or not, you can be violating copyright. I agree for the most part. However, it's not as far reaching as it believe. You can't violate a terms of service if there is no service being provided to you. Buying a copy of a piece of software in the store is different than subscribing monthly to a service, for instance.
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| 21. |
Re: Hmmm... |
Aug 1, 2008, 18:49 |
NKD |
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I'm less concerned about justifying the use of this product than I am with the implications of the courts previous ruling.
While this product is sleazy, it has nothing to do with copyright whatsoever. The court has basically ruled that if you do anything against terms of service, whether its otherwise legal or not, you can be violating copyright.
Basically all some clown has to so is say in fine print that they are licensing you the software, not selling it, and they can bypass all the protections and rights available for people who buy something.
This comment was edited on Aug 1, 18:51. |
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| If you don't like where gaming is heading, stop giving your money to the people who are taking it in that direction. |
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| 20. |
Re: Hmmm... |
Aug 1, 2008, 18:49 |
sponge |
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Most Terms of Service have never been tested in court, if you read through the average ToS it basically grants every right known to man to the company ToS != EULA. An EULA has not been tested in court. Terms of Services have been tested ever since the phone companies have existed. All those broadband companies who cap bandwidth or limit how much you can download? Those are in the Terms of Service.
he sarcasm aside, Glider never actually communicates with Blizzard's servers, it's access is strictly local. The WoW client does any and all interactions with the server. Violating the Terms of Service is welcoming account closure and any number of other actions Blizzard is entitled to attempt but that's on a case by case basis. No. The Glider application was judged to constitute copyright infringement. Distributing an application which has no purpose besides to commit copyright infringement, and generating funds off of it is illegal. This has nothing to do with your property. Blizzard is not suing people who run Glider, nor are they saying what you can't do and do with your computer.
http://news.mmosite.com/content/2008-07-15/20080715231135963.shtml
This comment was edited on Aug 1, 18:50. |
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| 19. |
Re: Hmmm... |
Aug 1, 2008, 18:23 |
Verno |
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Honestly Verno... you've accepted their terms if you play their game. This has nothing to do with your memory and everything to do with how you affect and interact with the live server you're joined to. Their terms, their rules, if you don't like them you can simply stop playing. See that's the exact problem though. Most Terms of Service have never been tested in court, if you read through the average ToS it basically grants every right known to man to the company. Quite a few them directly violate your own state/federal laws, especially regarding product resale. The average person doesn't have the money to object to them is the problem really. Saying "dont like it, dont play?" doesn't answer anything in the situation really. For the record I don't play WoW, I have enough addictions in my life
Your interaction (with or without Glider) doesn't just stop at your memory... it goes through your little network card, through the internets and onto their server. It's called online gaming. The sarcasm aside, Glider never actually communicates with Blizzard's servers, it's access is strictly local. The WoW client does any and all interactions with the server. Violating the Terms of Service is welcoming account closure and any number of other actions Blizzard is entitled to attempt but that's on a case by case basis.
The real story is that Blizzard is trying to protect it's giant cashcow and I don't blame them for it. It still doesn't make it right, regardless of how much you or I dislike bots.
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Playing: Path of Exile, Animal Crossing, Tales of Graces F Watching: Survivorman, Justified, Silent Running |
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| 18. |
No subject |
Aug 1, 2008, 18:06 |
TB |
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"Oops, our source code was stolen.... dang... oh well, we wont be pressing charges"
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| 17. |
Re: Hmmm... |
Aug 1, 2008, 17:58 |
BigFreak |
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But they do have the right to tell you what you can and can't do with THEIR game.
Anyone that condones cheating, particularly in online MP games needs to be banned, period. Think you're missing the boundary between law and terms of service.
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| 16. |
Hahah |
Aug 1, 2008, 17:42 |
Surf |
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good fucking luck stopping this blizzard.
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| 15. |
No subject |
Aug 1, 2008, 17:10 |
Wallshadows |
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far worse than a game that will be barely remembered in 50 years Exactly. In 50 years, I am going to tell my grand kids about the greatest war this world has ever seen and how I was once a mighty Druid who fought the flower-sniffing Alliance. By defeating the Alliance and the Burning Legion, I was given the title of Arch Druid and am in the shape of a human until The Emerald Dream opens for Cenarius' spirit to grant me eternal life.
See, what ten year old wouldn't believe that. My grand kids are gonna be fucked up...
This comment was edited on Aug 1, 17:11. |
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34 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
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