Send News. Want a reply? Read this. More in the FAQ.   News Forum - All Forums - Mobile - PDA - RSS Headlines  RSS Headlines   Twitter  Twitter
Customize
User Settings
Styles:
LAN Parties
Upcoming one-time events:

Regularly scheduled events

TF2 Heavy Plans

The official Team Fortress 2 Blog has details from Valve's Robin Walker on the next class pack for Team Fortress 2, which will concentrate on upgrading the Heavy character. Word is they are taking a slightly different approach to this update, as they are opening the process a bit to offer players insight into their goal, which is summed up like this: "Make the Heavy more viable when he has no Medic to pair with." They describe the constraints they face in this task, while outlining the skills a good Heavy should display. Here's a bit on the considerations they are facing:

Constraints:

    > It shouldn't have a cumulative effect when being healed by a Medic as well. Heavy/Medic pairs do pretty well as it is.

    > It shouldn't significantly change the Heavy's role, relative to other classes. In particular, it shouldn't significantly encroach on another class's role.

    > It should be understandable for both the user and the player it's being used on.


Extra:

    > How much work is it? How many new models, sounds, effects, etc?

    > Does it deepen the Heavy's skill curve? Is it easy to learn? Hard to master?

    > Is it an interesting tool to choose relative to the base Heavy weapon it's replacing? What scenarios can you envision in which each is useful? What arguments can you raise for why each is better than the other?

    > How often does the Heavy need to think about it? Is it something he uses once every 5 minutes, or is it something he needs to be constantly thinking about? A greater impact on player decision making is generally a good thing.

    > How many other features of the game does it affect? Often, the best ideas are "economical", with a small set of required actions, but a wide set of resulting effects

View
34 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
< Newer [ 1 2 ] Older >

34. No subject Jul 6, 2008, 15:19 Dev
 
Look at it this way:
You are sparing your team the pain and anguish of having a teammate selfishly focusing thier playing on getting achivements during a critical part of the game, instead of playing as a team and accomplishing team goals.

So its actually the morally superior choice to visit achivement server You are taking one for the team!

But, for ones that you can get pretty naturally, I just let nature take its course.
For instance, the pyro achivement where you dominate a guy and pwn him so hard he leaves server while dominated. Thats one that should be accomplished in the course of normal play

 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
33. Re: Hmmm... Jul 3, 2008, 07:22 Armengar
 
Yeah, I sank to the lowest level of hell by going to an achievements server. Got all the ones I wanted in a night for the pyro and medic (ffs, i refuse to waste a good ubercharge on a scout or a punching heavy)

The byproduct is my stats look mental (640 points on pyro and 450 on medic )

 
Its not the cough that carries you off but the coffin they carry you off in.
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
32. How about .. Jul 3, 2008, 00:22 Elricsi
 
The heavy should be able to eat some bullets when he is low on health. +1 on the burrito blast too.

The only thing I have unlocked so far is the upgraded syringe gun for the medic, and that is cool since the basic syringe gun was completely useless.

 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
31. Re: No subject Jul 2, 2008, 23:46 Prez
 
They should just have him break wind, and this huge smokescreen comes out!

That actually would be awesome! I would love that upgrade! They could call it Burrito Blast or something...

But seriously, I think the Heavy is great the way it is, though it is pretty susceptible to Snipers. That's what you get for being a fatty, I guess.


This comment was edited on Jul 2, 23:49.
 
Avatar 17185
 
“The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.”
- Mahatma Gandhi
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
30. Re: No subject Jul 2, 2008, 23:29 Nuclear Watchdog
 
* REMOVED *
This comment was deleted on Jul 3, 10:08.
 
================================================
"Whattadya wanna hear, that I'm your bitch? Fine. You came in
here, took it to me, and now I'm your bitch. Happy now?" - Creston
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
29. Re: No subject Jul 2, 2008, 23:26 Nuclear Watchdog
 
* REMOVED *
This comment was deleted on Jul 3, 10:08.
 
================================================
"Whattadya wanna hear, that I'm your bitch? Fine. You came in
here, took it to me, and now I'm your bitch. Happy now?" - Creston
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
28. Re: No subject Jul 2, 2008, 19:42 Veterator
 
Well from what I gather Valve approached this class upgrade stuff via how many people play the classes they've revamped. So, medic would have been least, pyro next..and according to this next round heavy would be the third least played. I usually play the cart pushing maps, so there aren't many scouts or spies usually. Maybe on the CTF and CP maps heavy is a lot less represented.


Im not saying things shouldn't have their downfalls or tradeoffs, but so far the trade offs for these other classes haven't been too extreme.

But if the shotgun crit thing is such a problem, make it never crit at range and make the normal damage at max pyro flame damage and greater be very low. Not hard to come up with trade offs.


Examining the already revamped classes, I think the pyro revamp was more "exciting" than the medic one. Medic is generally a pretty weak class, so I think they could have done a lot more with it than they did.


Pyro Backburner, arguably so good it's on the "overpowering" line but it may be due to the damage drop off and other "back hitbox" problems we all experience. IE, you backstab someone, but they don't get hit or you hit someone in the side and it counts as a backstab.

Pyro flare gun, personally I think the shotgun is better as the flare gun seemingly has no "splash" at all. It's either a direct hit or nothing, igniting people is good but it's not very lenient on it's ability to hit a target with the arc of the shot and no splash.

Axetinguisher, I rarely use melee weapons, but I don't see how this is much of a trade off. If you're a pyro and meleeing...you're probably out of ammo since the flamethrower excels at close range.

The hadouken kill, just a neat little effect but seems like they actually spent more time on the class than with the medic changes. Also the "blowback" of the regular gun..which I'd like to see them increase it's range a little as it's pretty touchy when it's slightly laggy. Plus the achievements are more reasonable.

Medic, Kritzkrieg, most people don't want it so most medics don't use it.

New gun, Blut whatever, no crits but you heal yourself not a bad weapon..but medics are most effective when they aren't shooting.

New hacksaw, good for spies, but again you're usually busy healing and don't have time to run around hacking people to test for spy infiltration.


Overall, medic changes didn't do much for the class. Whereas pyro changes made a pretty significant change and honestly I don't feel they have to sacrifice much for all the new found abilities/power.

 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
27. No subject Jul 2, 2008, 18:54 Sepharo
 
I like the idea of the heavy getting a smoke screen.

Either as a grenade or he can just "emit" it.

The downfall is that it would replace something. Perhaps his shotgun or fists.

But I guess it doesn't really fit the class. Unless of course the smoke cloud is a bodily gas

 
Avatar 17249
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
26. Re: No subject Jul 2, 2008, 18:39 Bucky
 
Depleted Uranium (Heavy) rounds. Activate via alt-fire. Slows rate of fire, tightens firing cone, and as these are radioactive, depletes health for each round fired. Cannot be used while being healed/buffed/ubered (edit: make it break any heal or buff connection so that the Heavy can activate it at will) and creates a 10 or 15 second debuff where the lost health cannot be replenished.


*shrug* Just a thought.


This comment was edited on Jul 2, 18:42.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
25. Re: No subject Jul 2, 2008, 18:34 Wowbagger_TIP
 
So, I'd like to see :
Shotgun (maybe fist) with a much higher crit percentage in close proximity ...make spy/pyro dead.
etc...

I think the idea here is trade-offs, not ways to make a heavy even more unstoppable. Getting rid of the weaknesses just makes for lack of balance unless you introduce a trade-off along with the buff. Sure, give him a tighter cone of damage from a distance, but immobilize him while he's firing, or something like that. Can't just create super-classes.

 
Avatar 9540
 
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, but wiser people so full of doubts." -- Bertrand Russell (I think...)
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
24. No subject Jul 2, 2008, 18:25 Veterator
 
Personally after playing TF2 a lot lately, I think they should do Spy or Scout. The stealth or the speed guy would be an interesting thing to see done and give the game a little more answer to "What do they intend?" As the heavy is a pretty strong guy and when I play medic I find myself usually healing them just because they tend to survive the bullet barrage unlike the other.

The heavies weaknesses I feel are:

- Speed
- Cone of Fire at just beyond sentry range
- Ability to mitigate damage beyond health..you're a big target and everyone guns for you.
- Spies almost exclusively go for heavies if they don't have an engineer to pester.
- Headshots, you're slow, and you're big...and.they kill instantly with almost no way to hurt the sniper back.

So I consider speed something they can't change about the heavy....

So, I'd like to see :

- Minigun with slower rate of fire, slightly higher damage and a lot better accuracy. So there's a chance to kill a sentry gun without having to step into it's range...and you can hurt the sniper so he can't stand steady and shoot.

- Shotgun (maybe fist) with a much higher crit percentage in close proximity ...make spy/pyro dead.

- I would like to see some sort of ... flare or something that could cause people to have trouble seeing you in the brihtness of it. Would make snipers have a harder time head shotting you, and would allow you to throw it out to progress forward. Maybe a smoke cloud would work, but I think it needs to be bright to hide the muzzle flash of the minigun.

- And barring those possibilities....some way to mitigate damage. Either a mini-uber like 50% reduction for 5 seconds...or some sort of crit immunity for 10 seconds.


No idea what's possible with the engine, but crits really mess up the heavy...so a crit immunity would make headshot crits impossible unless they make a special case for them.


 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
23. Re: No subject Jul 2, 2008, 18:05 ColoradoHoudini
 
I have two gripes about the game

1. I don't like the unlock scheme
2. Releasing one upgraded character per release makes servers shitty as hell while everyone runs around as that character.

Every damn server i go on is overrun with lamers playing pyro.
We're on offense.. and there's a good bit of distance between us and the defense.. and we have 5 pyros... ugh.

Every server is alwys overrun for a long while, with the most recent unlockable character.. it really ruins the game for me.

 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
22. Re: No subject Jul 2, 2008, 17:54 human
 
"Give the heavy a speed-boosting skill ("Adrenaline").

It charges as he deals damage (think healgun) and when deployed allows him to fire while moving at his normal speed.

Makes sense to me. The only real weakness a heavy has is his mobility (or lack thereof). "


...and your way to address this is to REMOVE that weakness? Haha.

 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
21. Re: No subject Jul 2, 2008, 17:27 TangoBaker
 
Your ass has a neck???

I know plenty of people with an ass on their neck
This comment was edited on Jul 2, 17:30.
 
Avatar 4297
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
20. No subject Jul 2, 2008, 16:35 beigemore
 
They could maybe give the heavy an ability to walk at normal speed while firing for about 5 or 10 seconds in exchange for 50 hp.

 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
19. Re: No subject Jul 2, 2008, 16:23 xXBatmanXx
 
Makes sense to me. The only real weakness a heavy has is his mobility (or lack thereof).

Not being able to move forward vs Turrets is the ghey, considering the CoF for the Heavy vs the CoF for the Turret....

You got a great body, but your record collection sucks....
BN 360 Scoreboard:
http://www.mygamercard.net/clboard.php?id=GW57kfq7
 
Avatar 10714
 
In this present crisis, government is not the solution to our problem; government is the problem. / Few men have virtue enough to withstand the highest bidder.
Playing: New dad
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
18. Re: No subject Jul 2, 2008, 15:20 PHJF
 
Give the heavy a speed-boosting skill ("Adrenaline").

It charges as he deals damage (think healgun) and when deployed allows him to fire while moving at his normal speed.

Makes sense to me. The only real weakness a heavy has is his mobility (or lack thereof).
 
Avatar 17251
 
Steam + PSN: PHJF
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
17. Re: No subject Jul 2, 2008, 15:19 Baudkarma
 
Okay... two things. First, TF2 would have been pretty overwhelming if they had released it with all the unlockables and achievements available. The way Valve is doing things, players get to pick up the new stuff bit by bit. There's also a little spike of interest each time a new class gets released, which probably sells a few more copies.

I also suspect that Valve already has most of the achievements and unlockables planned out. Their invitation to dialog is probably intended to give those interested an idea of what they consider when they're planning these things. I've seen too many suggestions that were just plain stupid, or overpowered, or would require some massive reworking of the game engine.

 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
16. Re: No subject Jul 2, 2008, 15:10 Krovven
 
Hahaha a rear-view mirror would be awesome.

There would have to be a down-side of course...maybe no crits for that version of the mini-gun.

A rear-view mirror would help the heavy defend himself from spies and also lessen situations where the heavy's medic is getting pestered by an enemy the heavy isn't aware about

That was my biggest problem playing the Heavy. Once the gun was spinning and firing I couldn't hear much of anything else. No footsteps, no medic dying behind me, no poof from the spy materializing, etc.

----------------------------------------------------
Grand Theft Auto IV.....what else is there?

PSN ID= Puscifer73
"Blues News" Steam Community... http://steamcommunity.com/groups/bluesnews/
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
15. Re: No subject Jul 2, 2008, 14:39 Zyrxil
 
Turning around as a heavy wastes a lot of time.

It wastes some time. A lot? Turn up your sensitivity

 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
34 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
< Newer [ 1 2 ] Older >


footer

.. .. ..

Blue's News logo