On Mass Effect & Spore Copy Protection

There's a massive thread on the Mass Effect Community Forums about the SecuROM copy-protection scheme planned for Mass Effect, BioWare's upcoming RPG (thanks Wolfox). The game will not need the disk in the drive to play, but will require an internet connection for installation to validate the CD (DVD) key and will need to go online once every ten days in perpetuity for revalidation. BioWare attempts to address all the questions this raises, at one point replying that this will be the same system used in Spore when the evolutionary game is released: "Yes, EA is ready for us and getting ready for Spore, which will use the same system." This thread continues the discussion after the first one was locked for length. Here's the deal:
Mass Effect uses SecuROM and requires an online activation for the first time that you play it. Each copy of Mass Effect comes with a CD Key which is used for this activation and for registration here at the BioWare Community. Mass Effect does not require the DVD to be in the drive in order to play, it is only for installation.

After the first activation, SecuROM requires that it re-check with the server within ten days (in case the CD Key has become public/warez'd and gets banned). Just so that the 10 day thing doesn't become abrupt, SecuROM tries its first re-check with 5 days remaining in the 10 day window. If it can't contact the server before the 10 days are up, nothing bad happens and the game still runs. After 10 days a re-check is required before the game can run.
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306 Replies. 16 pages. Viewing page 6.
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206.
 
Re: no subject
May 7, 2008, 05:09
Re: no subject May 7, 2008, 05:09
May 7, 2008, 05:09
 
cliffski. I bought democracy 2 from you a few months back and I throughly enjoyed it. However the way you are acting on here is shameful. Stop griefing people for god's sake. As you are an independent games developer you have an interesting point of view to bring to this debate.

Now, doing a quick search for Democracy 2 on a torrent search site I find that it has been downloaded nearly 1000 times. How do you perceive that? Do you believe that if some cracker hadn't hacked your game and put it on the internet that all 1000 of these people would have gone to your site and purchased your product?

My opinion would be that 99% of people who download games and other media from the internet illegally would never have purchased the item in the first place. They are either downloading to give them something to waste more of their pathetic lives on, or they are downloading more than they could legally purchase anyway (due to financial restraints).

Now if you had put this level of "protection" on democracy 2, I would not have bought your game. You would have lost me as a sale. Because the game was a present for my dad to play on his laptop when he goes away on business trips and holidays.

As I said on the Bioware forums. Treating me like a criminal and making me phone my parole officer every 10 days is total bullshit and I am now torn between I game I have looked forward to for over a year and not buying it for my principles.
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205.
 
Re: no subject
May 7, 2008, 04:55
Re: no subject May 7, 2008, 04:55
May 7, 2008, 04:55
 
who are you then jerk? tell us who you work for. I don't hide behind some silly anonymity, because I'm not ashamed of my stance on gaming. Tell us what games you make, and please list torrents of them for everyone to enjoy.
Fucking hypocrite.
204.
 
Re: no subject
May 7, 2008, 04:47
Re: no subject May 7, 2008, 04:47
May 7, 2008, 04:47
 
I agree, I wouldn't either... but I agree with cliffski that in this case the players are so big they'll hardly notice a few annoyed customers. The average person wouldn't even know what SecuROM is, let alone that it's a part of the program.

Which studio do you work for? I'm just curious

EDIT: Man I hate the smiley faces here on Blues. The wink makes you look like you're a nutter.
This comment was edited on May 7, 04:48.
203.
 
Re: no subject
May 7, 2008, 04:39
Re: no subject May 7, 2008, 04:39
May 7, 2008, 04:39
 
Are you a games developer, Jerykk?

Yes, although I try not to let my personal situation get in the way of logic.

I'm not the head of my studio but if I was, I'd sure as hell do my best to avoid pissing off customers by using expensive and overzealous protection schemes that inevitably get cracked.

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202.
 
Re: no subject
May 7, 2008, 04:36
Re: no subject May 7, 2008, 04:36
May 7, 2008, 04:36
 
hey jerkoff, tell me what percentage of WoW players use cracked servers, compared with those playing the PC call of Duty?

While I usually ignore posts with name-calling, I felt compelled to respond to this one.

I have no idea what percentage of WoW players use cracked servers. However, I do know that WoW has been pirated which contradicts your original statement.

As for CoD4, I don't know the statistics on that either. I know that a lot of people pirated the game. I also know the game was a top-seller for months. Did the PC version sell as well as the 360 version? Nope. But I'm guessing that's primarily because console gaming is far more mainstream than PC gaming.

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201.
 
Re: no subject
May 7, 2008, 04:32
Re: no subject May 7, 2008, 04:32
May 7, 2008, 04:32
 
Yeah, maybe someone would buy it afterwards (though I don't think this is as common as some people make out) but I wouldn't want to run a business on that assumption. Are you a games developer, Jerykk?

200.
 
Re: no subject
May 7, 2008, 04:31
Re: no subject May 7, 2008, 04:31
May 7, 2008, 04:31
 
the thieving cunts like you will still try and pirate it because you feel born with a right to take other peoples stuff for free. 99% of the people whining about "OMGZZZZ I will NEVER BUY IT!!!!111" Will buy it on the first day anyway.

Thats why people sue DRM. It works, they have the sales stats, they know. All the whining on forums will not change EA's bottom line.
199.
 
Re: no subject
May 7, 2008, 04:30
Re: no subject May 7, 2008, 04:30
May 7, 2008, 04:30
 
"Because it's not true? There are plenty of cracked WoW servers out there. Please, cliffski, do some research before you make these posts. I know you are morally obligated to defend copy-protection but your arguments would be much more solid if you actually knew what you were talking about. "

hey jerkoff, tell me what percentage of WoW players use cracked servers, compared with those playing the PC call of Duty?

then please go play in the road with your pro-piracy thief friends.
Ta
198.
 
Re: no subject
May 7, 2008, 04:26
Re: no subject May 7, 2008, 04:26
May 7, 2008, 04:26
 
Regardless of whether the stats were correct or not (or even exist!), cases have been recorded where pirates have been stopped by copy protection methods and then purchased the game because they couldn't get around it.

The question is, would they have purchased the game anyway after they had pirated it? Dubious as it may sound, that can happen. I know because I do it myself.

As I mentioned earlier, I'm sure there are cases where a pirate is too impatient to wait for a game to be cracked so they go out and buy it. However, I'm also sure that there are cases where a pirate wouldn't have bought a game had it not been pirated first. I myself make a point of not buying any game unless I've played it. It's mandatory for games without demos and even for games with demos. Hell, if I had judged Hitman: Blood Money based on the demo, I would have never bought the full version.

Oh, I think I found the statistics you mentioned:
http://kotaku.com/tag/reflexive-arcade/

Apparently, for every 1000 pirated copies eliminated, they created 1 sale. Of course, they don't know how many sales they lost. As the reaction to Mass Effect's DRM and the now-buried Starforce can attest to, copy-protection can result in lost sales as well.

This comment was edited on May 7, 04:31.
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197.
 
Re: no subject
May 7, 2008, 04:21
Re: no subject May 7, 2008, 04:21
May 7, 2008, 04:21
 
Good question on the stats... I read about those some time back. If I had them on hand, I'd have provided a link, but I believe they were completed by Reflexive Arcade (I'm not completely sure though- it was some time ago). Feel free to google, or simply not believe. Regardless of whether the stats were correct or not (or even exist!), cases have been recorded where pirates have been stopped by copy protection methods and then purchased the game because they couldn't get around it.

EDIT: I'm not saying copy protection always works, but that's the method behind the madness.

This comment was edited on May 7, 04:23.
196.
 
Re: no subject
May 7, 2008, 04:19
Re: no subject May 7, 2008, 04:19
May 7, 2008, 04:19
 
Why don't people ever mention that the most profitable PC game (WoW) is one that has zero piracy? Its not a fucking co-incidence.

Maybe cause it is quite heavily pirated - you can barely search for wow info without tripping over "private" servers.

195.
 
Re: no subject
May 7, 2008, 04:15
Re: no subject May 7, 2008, 04:15
May 7, 2008, 04:15
 
Why don't people ever mention that the most profitable PC game (WoW) is one that has zero piracy? Its not a fucking co-incidence.

heh wow not Being Pirated? please pull your head from the sand and google wow private servers.

fact of the matter is copy protection like this is Doing nothing to stop pirating. and is only causing problems for the end user.

the major dip in pc sales is from the frustration gamers like me are having. dealing with a never ending stream of Problems with the games and this is made worse by the oh so great technical support on the game company/distributors end.

if the game is worth buying it will be bought. here again this is where i draw the line between the habitual pirate and your "casual" one. but if it's garbage dressed up in bloom and shiny graphics. well then you just wasted alot of money and time on making pretty garbage. and pirates are not the reason a bad game does not sell.

194.
 
Re: no subject
May 7, 2008, 04:14
Re: no subject May 7, 2008, 04:14
May 7, 2008, 04:14
 
What was your original point? The point of software protection isn't to remain uncracked, but to deter piracy, which statistically it has been proven to do.

Where are these statistics? I'm curious as to how one could establish such figures, as the only way to prove the impact of piracy is to observe two parallel realities that differ only in the presence (or absence) of piracy.

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193.
 
Re: no subject
May 7, 2008, 04:12
Re: no subject May 7, 2008, 04:12
May 7, 2008, 04:12
 
Fair enough then. What was your original point? The point of software protection isn't to remain uncracked, but to deter piracy, which statistically it has been proven to do.

192.
 
Re: no subject
May 7, 2008, 04:07
Re: no subject May 7, 2008, 04:07
May 7, 2008, 04:07
 
EDIT: Above, where I say, "one case", I'm talking about one pirate purchasing a game because the game could not be cracked.

Ah, that's where our miscommunication lies. I'm saying that no copy-protection has prevented a game from being cracked, copied and distributed illegally a.k.a. pirated.

Unfortunately, there are no solid statistics to prove the impact of piracy on potential sales. I'm sure some people might buy a game if they couldn't pirate it, just as I'm sure there are those that wouldn't.

Regardless, the question is moot because every copy-protection scheme thus far has been cracked.

This comment was edited on May 7, 04:12.
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191.
 
Re: no subject
May 7, 2008, 03:59
Re: no subject May 7, 2008, 03:59
May 7, 2008, 03:59
 
No no no... I want statistics. I want proof that, as you said, copy-protection does not stop piracy. I won't hold you to your absolute statement, because copy-protection has been proven in at least one case to stop software piracy... but I will hold you to producing statistics that show that very little piracy has been avoided by introducing copy-protection. If you can't do that, your statements are clearly opinion and not fact.

While I'm doing that, you can show us all some solid statistics that prove that copy-protection actually increases profits.

Increases profits compared to what? Anyway, you show me those statistics, or as far as I'm concerned you're just a guy with an opinion.

EDIT: Above, where I say, "one case", I'm talking about one pirate purchasing a game because the game could not be cracked.

This comment was edited on May 7, 04:01.
190.
 
Re: no subject
May 7, 2008, 03:43
Re: no subject May 7, 2008, 03:43
May 7, 2008, 03:43
 
Please show us all some solid statistics to back up that claim.

Okay. Name a game and I'll tell you if it's been pirated.

While I'm doing that, you can show us all some solid statistics that prove that copy-protection actually increases profits.

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189.
 
Re: no subject
May 7, 2008, 03:40
Re: no subject May 7, 2008, 03:40
May 7, 2008, 03:40
 
It has no benefits. It doesn't stop piracy.

Please show us all some solid statistics to back up that claim.

188.
 
Re: no subject
May 7, 2008, 03:36
Re: no subject May 7, 2008, 03:36
May 7, 2008, 03:36
 
Why don't people ever mention that the most profitable PC game (WoW) is one that has zero piracy? Its not a fucking co-incidence.

Because it's not true? There are plenty of cracked WoW servers out there. Please, cliffski, do some research before you make these posts. I know you are morally obligated to defend copy-protection but your arguments would be much more solid if you actually knew what you were talking about.

Oh yeah, the Sims is also the best-selling PC franchise of all time and every single entry in the series has been pirated heavily.

This comment was edited on May 7, 03:37.
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187.
 
Re: no subject
May 7, 2008, 03:33
Re: no subject May 7, 2008, 03:33
May 7, 2008, 03:33
 
This is a required step to insure PC gaming survives.

Really? If you read the numerous comments surrounding this topic on various forums and news sites, you'll notice that a lot of people are no longer going to buy Mass Effect because of the new copy-protection. On the other hand, people who were going to pirate the game anyway will still do so. How is this insuring PC gaming's survival again?

This is great news but I don't believe the securom method will be effective or robust enough, it will likely be circumvented too easily.

How exactly is this "great news" if you acknowledge that the new protection will be completely worthless..? If copy-protection actually worked, your argument would have some merit. Unfortunately, copy-protection doesn't work. It has no benefits. It doesn't stop piracy. All it does is inconvenience legitimate users.

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