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No Fallout 3 Demo

Eurogamer has word from Pete Hines of Bethesda Softworks, who says a demo for Fallout 3 is not in the cards:

When you build it as one thing, there's no way to portion off a section and have it stand on its own without putting the whole game in the demo, which we're just not going to do. And it doesn't really capture the fun of a game like an Elder Scrolls or a Fallout, where you can go where you want and do what you want. So no demo, sorry.

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136. ankara nakliyat May 17, 2008, 15:02 kardelen133
 
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135. ankara nakliyat May 4, 2008, 14:23 kardelen133
 
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134. No subject Apr 29, 2008, 00:00 Acleacius
 
monica is a spambot?  
The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders.That is easy.All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.It works the same way in any country.
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133. Re: No subject Apr 24, 2008, 23:20 JohnnyRotten
 
I doubt that any game really recovers that cost in the extra sales the demo generates.

My gut feeling is exactly the opposite, esp. for the smaller/indie publishers without the marketing resources of the bigger boys, but not being in the game market, I don't have any hard facts to back up that claim.

Again, if it's planned for from the beginning of the product, then there shouldn't be large amounts of resources required for the demo. In the age of electronic delivery, having a teaser portion of the game out with the option to convert to a sale is a solid value proposition that you don't do only if you know you have a triple-A product going out the door. Spore would be a good example of this.

Basically, the ROI for a demo in a well managed project should be high, and the effort and risk low.

If your demo can't get conversions, then you have a bad product, and if you have a bad product, you don't convert sales, demo or no demo. Demo's that were rolled into the project design should always easily be able to pay for themselves, and not just in initial direct sales.

Demo's also have secondary usages - it's a publicity you don't have to spend money on. Demo's can be used to keep up interest over time by releasing more content into a demo, etc., etc., etc. In other words it can also be a marketing/promotion/awareness tool. More good ROI.

As I said before, it looks to me they dropped the ball on this one, and it's pretty hard at this late date to hammer the square peg into the round hole. The ROI isn't nearly as attractive for them now, but I'm also willing to bet that if they don't get the sales they want, then they'll get to hammering.

- J


EDIT: who knew "do" could be so important
This comment was edited on Apr 25, 11:40.
 
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132. Re: No subject Apr 24, 2008, 22:01 Kosumo
 
I heard there are some cool games coming out of the atari 2600, I might check them out.

 
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131. Re: No subject Apr 24, 2008, 17:22 CreamyBlood
 
I think I'll stick with my VelociRaptor. Kind of a burn, but what the heck, eh?

 
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130. Re: No subject Apr 24, 2008, 15:43 Tumbler
 
Sure, there's the risk of getting banned from Live! but Live! is a piece of crap anyway so that's no biggie.

Yeah...I don't think I'll be modding my box with the potential of losing all support from Live. Thanx. I'm not happy with the cost of it but overall it adds a ton to the value of my box and the games on that system.

Demos, Live Arcade, SF2 HD is coming, Bionic Commando HD, downloadable content for CoD4, GTA4, movies and tv shows you can rent, beta (aka FREE) access to games like CoD4, Halo3, and more to come, dashboard updates, uh...yeah I think I'll stick with Live, thanx.

The 360 without live isn't the 360 at all. The price is the issue with the service. It's not worth $49.99 a year but it's certainly not crap.

 
99gamers.com-Game trading site, PC digital trading!
Kickstarter "Game Developer"!
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129. Re: No subject Apr 24, 2008, 14:13 Jerykk
 
You can do a one-click link and be playing a pirated game on the PC, without leaving your chair.

Not quite that simple. After downloading the game, you have to extract it from its compressed format, mount the disc image, enter a CD-key if necessary, install the game and copy the crack file(s) into the proper directory. Some games require more extensive measures depending on the protection scheme used.

Console games, on the other hand, are generally much easier. Once you've flashed the hacked firmware onto your console, all you have to do is burn the pirated game onto a disc and pop it in. Sure, there's the risk of getting banned from Live! but Live! is a piece of crap anyway so that's no biggie.

 
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128. No subject Apr 23, 2008, 19:23 Kxmode
 
I loved oblivion but I suffered constant BSOD. I hope Beth polished the engine so this doesn't happen.

-----
http://www.gamemusicjukebox.com/
Game p/reviewer for http://www.gameindustry.com/
 
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127. Re: No subject Apr 23, 2008, 10:57  cliffski 
 
piracy is less common on consoles. You can do a one-click link and be playing a pirated game on the PC, without leaving your chair. You can't do that with consoles, especially ones requiring hardware mods. there's the risk of being banned from the live accounts too.
But yeah, I'm sure everyone I know who mentions piracy lies to me just for kicks.
 
http://www.positech.co.uk
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126. Re: No subject Apr 23, 2008, 10:24 InBlack
 
Jesus Christ all this talk of Oblivion and Morrowind makes me want to play those games again I never really got to finishing either of them, although I really enjoyed them quite a lot, hated the level/monster/loot scaling system in Oblivion, but still dug the game very much. Didn't finish it basically cos I never really found the time to play it all the way through. A friend of mine finished Morrowind quite a bit before I did and managed to spoil the ending for me, so I did all the major side quests, but never got the urge to climb that mountain of doom.

Even though I enjoyed both games, that doesn't make me a fanboy of Bethesda, I still think it's highly probable that Fallout 3 will suck monkey balls. The humour part worries me the most. But I will give them the benefit of the doubt for now.


 
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I have a nifty blue line!
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125. Re: No subject Apr 23, 2008, 02:37 CreamyBlood
 
Creston, It's great that you and five million others thought that Oblivion was fun.

I enjoyed the learning phase and some of the exploration but once I got to the meat of the game, I thought it was rather dull.

Then I spent about a week researching mods for it. That was fun. Then I started playing again and it was better. But it got boring after awhile.

To you the game worked, and still does. To me, it's very shallow, basic and tedious. It's not an RPG (in my mind) and isn't fun, it became a chore.

Then again, I liked Quake 4 as a good rail shooter and find FEAR rather lacking, which is quite the opposite of other opinions here.

Don't forget that this site started over a decade ago with discerning PC freaks playing the latest and greatest shooters. The site has evolved, but some of us like to think we have a little bit of 'taste' when it comes to state of the art in 2008.

Okay, that sounds very 'elitest', but seriously, three decades later I think we could expect a little bit more.

As I'm sure many will agree here (and some won't), mainstream video games have decelerated and gone into a retrograde orbit since the beginning of this century.

Hopefully Fallout 3 ends up being a fun RPG updated not to 2010 graphics and expectations, but up to at least 1997 standards. Is that so much to ask for?

 
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124. Re: No subject Apr 23, 2008, 00:44 Scottish Martial Arts
 
Isn't it, at least partially?

No, especially now that gaming is a mass medium on par with film, television and music. There is no correlation between quality and popularity. Here's the box-office take for last weekend:

http://www.rottentomatoes.com/movies/box_office.php

You will notice that in the top ten there are films that reviewed extremely well, extremely poorly, and every where in between. Yes, video games are not movies, but as a mass medium the principle holds true. The Orange Box is an excellent game that sold very, very well. Command and Conquer 3 is a thoroughly competent, if not exceptional, game that sold very, very well. Deer Hunter is an extremely bad game that is one of the best selling PC games of all time. Oblivion selling well says absolutely nothing about the games quality.

You don't seem to understand. It is your OPINION on whether or not a game is good. You can, by very definition, not BE wrong.

Of course I can be wrong. I can hold the opinion that the Earth is flat, and I would be wrong to do so. Likewise, I could hold the opinion that The Aeneid is a bad poem, but I would be on extremely shaky grounds if I were to do so. I grant that judging a work of literature or a video game has an element of subjectivity which the shape of the Earth does not. That said, not all opinions are created equal, subjective or no. At the very least, the Aeneid can objectively be shown to be superior to certain other poems. In that case, you can still believe that the Aeneid is bad, but relative to the Aeneid there are objectively much worse poems in western literature. Likewise, you can believe that Oblivion is a good game, but relative to Oblivion there are games that are objectively much better.

You seem to have some difficulty understanding the difference between a MOD and a TOTAL CONVERSION.

Obscuro's Oblivion Overhaul is damn near close to a total conversion. The only elements of Oblivion it doesn't effect is the level geometry, and static content (i.e. quests and dialog). Other than that, you are playing a whole new game.

Again, you find it not worthwhile playing unmodded. Many others do.

Would you enjoy that Bethesda-made static content so much if the underlying game hadn't been fixed by mods? Some of the dungeons of Oblivion can be fun, ESPECIALLY when you have the hand-placed loot and challenging combat encounters of OOO and other mods. That static content which you claim to love so much loses a lot its charm when you have to go back to Bethesda's shitty technical (i.e. mechanics) design.

 
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123. Re: No demo = Bit Torrent Apr 22, 2008, 22:45 Jerykk
 
I LOVED Oblivion my first time through, I just saw little point in playing it again, until someone took out the scaled stuff.

Really? I thought I read some posts of your's where you were complaining about how crappy Oblivion is unmodded but that may have been someone else.

Regardless, I enjoyed Oblivion too, though I did have to use an interface mod and some graphical mods too.

Even Halo has awesome multiplayer to help sell copies, despite the fact that many agree the single player game is pretty mediocre.

Halo has awesome multiplayer? That's news to me. I thought Halo's gameplay was fundamentally crappy so I doubt the multiplayer would be any different. Still, I don't think sales numbers are a valid measure of a game's quality. Hell, The Sims and its monthly expansions sell a bazillion copies every second. Oblivion had tons and tons of marketing hype, most of which showed features that didn't actually make it into the game, so it's not surprising that it sold so well.


This comment was edited on Apr 22, 22:50.
 
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122. Re: No subject Apr 22, 2008, 22:42 Ecthelion
 
Thank God for Stardock. Best publisher in PC gaming. EVER.
That's what I keep hearing. Hopefully someday they'll make a game that interests me, so I can see for myself.

Has Bethesda been lax in patching Oblivion? Sure. I won't defend that.
Are there any remaining unresolved issues with Oblivion? Regardless, they were slow to patch the game, but in their defense it didn't seem to need much patching.

You seem to have some difficulty understanding the difference between a MOD and a TOTAL CONVERSION. I have one big problem with Vanilla Oblivion and that's its scaled levels/loot crap. While it was fine the first time through, it does make the game a bit pointless to replay, since you're just going to see the same stuff again as you did last time, no matter where you go.
I have no desire to replay Oblivion even with scaling mods. Is it because it's a bad game? No - I don't get much out of replaying any RPG I can recall. Morrowind had no replay value for me, and many other games were only interesting to replay because of their stories. But even the great infinity engine games (all of them except the IWD games, which were too much of a chore when it came to the constant combat which always took a while to finish, only to face another onslaught 5 minutes later) eventually get rather boring when I replay them. Going back and repeating the mediocre sections of the game (however few they are) makes me lose interest quickly. That's just how RPGs seem to me. But do I count that against Oblivion? How can I, when I don't count it against my favorite RPGs? I got over 40 hours out of Oblivion, so I got my money's worth and I don't see any sense in bashing it. I'm confident I'll get the same value out of Fallout 3, so it's an insta-buy for me.

This comment was edited on Apr 22, 22:53.
 
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121. Re: No subject Apr 22, 2008, 20:33 Creston
 
For computer games, a demo should be thought of during the visioning & design phase of the product, and rolled into the entire project life cycle, not something you think about when you're nearing release. Handled correctly, a demo is a revenue generator.

While I agree with your assessment of how a demo should be implemented (from the start), I seriously doubt it generates positive revenue. I'm sure a few more copies will be sold because of a good demo (I bought Farcry and Prey from their demos. Loved Farcry and hated Prey,) but the cost of making one is fairly large, if only because of the dev time spent on it. I doubt that any game really recovers that cost in the extra sales the demo generates.

Creston

 
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120. Re: No subject Apr 22, 2008, 20:27 Creston
 
I'm pretty sure that X2 wasn't the only game that did this

I can't even remember that about X2, but Titan Quest apparently had a second CD check in it when you exited the first cave. If you had no CD, the game crashed.

Which was funny, because people were bitching about the HORRIBLE performance in that cave (which was caused by shitty DRM) and Iron Lore kept stonefacedly saying that that was because people had shitty computers.

Then two years later, they started whining that the pirates were complaining about the game crashing at that point, and that it was because they were pirates, and it was causing so much negativity about the game, that it effected sales.

To which I say : Wow, that's a really dumb fucking scheme you built there. You actually generated negative publicity for yourself in some vague attempt to "safeguard" your game against pirates.

Thank God for Stardock. Best publisher in PC gaming. EVER.

CrestoN

This comment was edited on Apr 22, 20:42.
 
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119. Re: No subject Apr 22, 2008, 20:22 Creston
 
I personally know people running small studios moving to consoles due to piracy

I suspect, cliffski, that those guys just aren't being honest with you. If someone REALLY moves off the PC platform just because of piracy alone, they're going to be in for a rude awakening when they find console games being pirated just as heavily.

I suspect most devs go to consoles for a few reasons :

1) It's easier to code for because of the stable hardware base.
2) They see bigger dollar signs and figure they can more easily get a slice of a bigger pie.
3) They realize that their shovelware will still sell 500,000 copies on a console, whereas on a PC it wouldn't sell shit. Ergo, let's go develop worthless code for the console and still make a buck.

And I think many more devs (and especially publishers) have reason #3 foremost in their mind than we think.

The idea that "Piracy is killing PC Gaming" is retarded. Just because Epic makes a worthless third release of their quake 3 clone and it doesn't sell, doesn't mean that piracy is what caused it not to sell.

Sins of a Solar Empire was the best selling PC game in February (I think in March too), and it has NOTHING preventing anyone from copying it. So please explain to me how piracy is killing PC Gaming?

Still, pirates are thieves, and I've had shit stolen from me several times. All their lame excuses and justifications aside, they're still thieves. One thing I'll say for Jerykk is that he at least mans up about it.

Creston

 
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118. Re: No demo = Bit Torrent Apr 22, 2008, 20:07 Creston
 
If it were not for the Mods community the game would have died off completely since they act as if there is nothing wrong with it. Wouldn't you agree?

Right. Because as we all know, most single player games **without Mods** continue to be played HEAVILY two plus years after release?

I'm not really sure I understand what you're trying to say.

Has Bethesda been lax in patching Oblivion? Sure. I won't defend that. Their "customer support" is worthless. If someone chooses to ignore them over that, I can't say I blame that person. That still doesn't make Oblivion a shiny turd.

Oh, are you saying you don't agree about today's media?

I think you need to stop watching CNN.

How you got "This whole market thought it was a shiny turd." out of it is beyond me

Yeah, two words are going to have a different meaning than those two words placed in the context of a sentence.

I am starting to suspect you are emotionally attached to Oblivion or maybe under the influence.

Ah, that's it. I was wondering why I kept hitting people when I was driving home.
It couldn't POSSIBLY be that Oblivion is a pretty good game and some people enjoy(ed) the hell out of it, right?

All joking aside. Calm down, you come across very high strung. After all they are just games.

I honestly don't really give a shit how I "come across." If anyone thinks that I'm getting majorly agitated over some threads on the Internet, shrug, that's their problem. Not mine. Doesn't bother me one bit.

Creston

 
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117. Re: No demo = Bit Torrent Apr 22, 2008, 20:00 Creston
 
Oh, and Creston, I think your defense of Oblivion might be a little misplaced. You only liked the game after you modded it heavily

This is actually incorrect. I LOVED Oblivion my first time through, I just saw little point in playing it again, until someone took out the scaled stuff. The idea that I didn't start enjoying Oblivion until after I had heavily modded it just isn't true.

Just for completeness' sake.

Creston

 
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